Broad Path, Narrow Path

[Blik]

certainly not the law properly understood & used lawfully. but the law, properly understood, is spiritual and testifies of Christ.

there is a great mystery here; for some reason circumcision is part of the law, but Paul is able to charge by the Spirit that accepting it physically is falling from grace. this is really astonishing! at least it should be! so we have to properly understand how that can be so in order to understand how the law & its relation to us as having been immersed into Christ is properly understood. this is only one example of many, but it's indispensable, and useful as a test because scripture is so clear about it: if some understanding of the law and its application to believers can't explain circumcision, then it can't be right; it is evident immediately that it must lack something.

I think the explanation is in the description of the problem with the members of the church in Smyrna that we read of in Rev. 2. They were circumcised in the flesh but not in the spirit and John said Revelation 2:9 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

The order to perform the ceremonial law was never meant to be the law in itself, it was to lead to obedience of the spirit of God that is the real law.

When we go back to the OT instructions about the rituals, we need to read them to determine what the spirit of God as the law was. The information is there and so very useful to us. But reading of the ritual alone is nothing and was never meant to be the actual law.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Matt. 7:
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

Here is a warning from the mouth of the very Word's of my Savior, the Christ Jesus.

It is written:

John 3:
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

So according to this Jesus, if we want to enter this Heaven that He Came down from, we must believe in Him. This is the central tenant, the very foundation of the Gospel of Christ. I think few would argue that point.

So this would also include "believing" what HE says. YES?

John 6:
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

So I believe I have established a Biblical fact, that according to Jesus, we are "believe" His Word's if we want to enter His Kingdom.

So this brings us back to the warning He gave about the existence or 2 Paths. One which is wide ( spread out, "flat" also to mold, fabricate, form, see GK) and broad (wide, spacious ( see the GK) and the other "strait" (narrow from obstacles standing about) and narrow ( to crowd, afflict, throng, suffer tribulation, trouble. see GK)

Jesus said to "Strive to Enter" the narrow Path that FEW follow, as opposed to the wide Path that "MANY follow.

I hope to begin a conversation about this warning as it comes from the Very Christ which holds our salvation in His Hands.

To begin, I ask myself. Why would "Many" who are interested in entering the Christ's Heaven, follow a Path that leads to destruction? But I think Jesus answers my question in the next verse. "False Prophets".

So I can presume those religious leaders of the "broad" Path are not declaring "Come follow us on the "Path" to destruction", I bet the are telling falsehoods and declaring "Come follow us on the Path to eternity".

This would certainly explain the urgent warning.

So when Jesus began to further His Fathers Gospel, was there a religion present that "Many" followed which was to lead to this same great Heaven that Jesus came down from? And if so who were they, and what did Jesus say about them?

I'm interested in hearing any input from members here as to their understanding of this urgent warning from our Savior that we are tasked to "believe in.

I look forward to your participation.

I believe that the people referred to as going into both gates are all of God's elect people. Those entering the Wide gate are God's elect people who are believing and preaching a false doctrine contrary to the doctrine that Jesus taught. Those of God's elect people who find and enter the straight gate are those who have been revealed, by the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, the mysteries of the doctrine that Jesus taught. In Ezekiel 1 it speaks of a wheel in the middle of a wheel. I believe the outer and bigger wheel to represent "the invisible church of God's elect people" (The wide gate). The smaller wheel in the middle being to represent the visible church of God's elect people who have been revealed the truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught. (The straight gate).

 

[Dan_473]

I am the LORD, that is My name; ​

I will not give My glory to another​

(Isaiah 42:8) ​

​

I do not accept glory from men ​

(John 5:41) ​

surely this also is a great mystery ♥

now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, ​

with the glory which I had with You before the world was ​

(John 17:5) ​

who understands it?

Revelation 5: 13. I heard every created thing which is in heaven, on the earth, under the earth, on the sea, and everything in them, saying, "To him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion, forever and ever! Amen!"

Amen, the lamb is glorified in the same way and at the same time as the one sitting on the throne!

 

[posthuman]

I believe that the people referred to as going into both gates are all of God's elect people. Those entering the Wide gate are God's elect people who are believing and preaching a false doctrine contrary to the doctrine that Jesus taught. Those of God's elect people who find and enter the straight gate are those who have been revealed, by the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, the mysteries of the doctrine that Jesus taught. In Ezekiel 1 it speaks of a wheel in the middle of a wheel. I believe the outer and bigger wheel to represent "the invisible church of God's elect people" (The wide gate). The smaller wheel in the middle being to represent the visible church of God's elect people who have been revealed the truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught. (The straight gate).

this sure raises a lot of questions

Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four​

(Ezekiel 1:15-18) ​

why are there four of them, beside the four living creatures?
why each the same, why appearing like beryl, or topaz?
why don't they themselves turn whichever way they go?
why are they full of eyes?

though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed!​

(Galatians 1:8) ​

if those preaching a false gospel and teaching false doctrine are an invisible church of God's elect people, why does the scripture say let them be anathema? is God's chariot rolling around on curses leading to destruction?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

this sure raises a lot of questions

Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four​

(Ezekiel 1:15-18) ​

why are there four of them, beside the four living creatures?
why each the same, why appearing like beryl, or topaz?
why don't they themselves turn whichever way they go?
why are they full of eyes?

though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed!​

(Galatians 1:8) ​

if those preaching a false gospel and teaching false doctrine are an invisible church of God's elect people, why does the scripture say let them be anathema? is God's chariot rolling around on curses leading to destruction?

Anathema, according to Strong's. means excommunicate. The visible church is instructed to excommunicate those who preach a false doctrine.

 

[posthuman]

Anathema, according to Strong's. means excommunicate. The visible church is instructed to excommunicate those who preach a false doctrine.

Strong's isn't a dictionary.

regardless -- given your understanding, what does it mean that the 'invisible church' should be cut off, separated and shut out from the 'visible church' as though under a curse?

if Ezekiel 1 is meant as a picture of this, does it give any insight to such a question?

 

[Lanolin]

Some thoughts about broad way vs narrow way...

Jesus saw sheep without a shepherd, they had been scattered...they are going a broad way. A shepherd will herd sheep and get them inside a gate to safety.

The devil is shown as a lion roaring about like a lion seeking those whom he might devour. If one isnt inside the gate, the sheep are fair game or prey to the lions.

In book of Job, God asked what satan was coming from and he replied he was going to and fro in earth, and walking up and down it. In other words, aimless wandering!

In Amos 8:12 there is a famine of the word in the land. People stagger to and fro from sea to sea and from north to east seeking the word of the Lord, but they cannot find it.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Strong's isn't a dictionary.

regardless -- given your understanding, what does it mean that the 'invisible church' should be cut off, separated and shut out from the 'visible church' as though under a curse?

if Ezekiel 1 is meant as a picture of this, does it give any insight to such a question?

Because they are preaching another doctrine other than the doctrine that Jesus taught.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Some thoughts about broad way vs narrow way...

Jesus saw sheep without a shepherd, they had been scattered...they are going a broad way. A shepherd will herd sheep and get them inside a gate to safety.

The devil is shown as a lion roaring about like a lion seeking those whom he might devour. If one isnt inside the gate, the sheep are fair game or prey to the lions.

In book of Job, God asked what satan was coming from and he replied he was going to and fro in earth, and walking up and down it. In other words, aimless wandering!

In Amos 8:12 there is a famine of the word in the land. People stagger to and fro from sea to sea and from north to east seeking the word of the Lord, but they cannot find it.

God had a protective hedge about Job, and he has a protective hedge about all of his elect. Satan is going about seeking those of God's elect who have stepped outside of that hedge because of the temptations of this world. Satan can try to keep God's elect from having a relationship with God, but he can not take away his eternal inheritance. When a child of God is convicted of his error of being tempted and repents, God delivers (saves) him from the grasp of Satan.

 

[posthuman]

Because they are preaching another doctrine other than the doctrine that Jesus taught.

why do you call them God's elect church then?
if they're preaching a false gospel and are cut off from God's people?

Those entering the Wide gate are God's elect people who are believing and preaching a false doctrine contrary to the doctrine that Jesus taught.

"the invisible church of God's elect people" (The wide gate).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

why do you call them God's elect church then?
if they're preaching a false gospel and are cut off from God's people?

Jesus is the king of all of the elect of God. The elect are those that God gave to his Son to die for. God has hidden the mystery of Jesus's doctrine from almost all of his elect and revealed it to only a few. Why, I do not know. That is why I do not understand God's ways. I would think, because the doctrine that Jesus taught is so comforting and peaceful, why would he not reveal it to all of his elect? The elect that are preaching a false doctrine are the ones that are the lost sheep of the household of Israel and are the ones that the visible church are supposed to be preaching the gospel to. Not to save them eternally, but to instruct them as to how God wants them to live their lives here on earth. This, to the rest of God's elect seems to be a strange and hard doctrine, but such was it thought of about the early church.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Not to save them eternally, but to instruct them as to how God wants them to live their lives here on earth. This, to the rest of God's elect seems to be a strange and hard doctrine, but such was it thought of about the early church.

FGC,

You are one SERIOUSLY CONFUSED INDIVIDUAL. The false doctrine of unconditional election was not believed by the early Church for about 400 years, and it was only Augustine who created this doctrine, which was then adopted by the Reformers. Which is rather strange, since Augustine is a Roman Catholic *saint*.

To suggest that God wants to save some but not others, and then to suggest that the ones who will not be saved will receive instructions as to how to live on earth is about as ABSURD as you can get.

Why don't you simply believe the Bible rather than any man-made doctrine? But perhaps it is already too late for you to repent and abandon all false teachings.

 

[Blik]

I should think it would be simple to detect the right way of God, simply by following the way Christ led us to.

The church is not following that way at all, they are distorting scripture to make it read in opposition to God. They say Christ destroyed much of the teaching of the Father. They say the new covenant changed what God taught. They say it wasn't God who spoke to Moses, but obeying the law in love is a new way (it was always God's way) and that means the law itself is dead. They say the 612 laws God gave to lead people to live a Godly life are all laughable, to be read with distain. They say that Christ as our high priest is not a better priest than the old one and his duties as high priest is related, but that Christ wants us to distain the priestly office as God gave it. I could go on and on, we are not following Jesus.

 

[Blik]

I should think it would be simple to walk in the narrow path, it would be to simply follow Jesus.

I don't see any practices taught in the church as following Jesus. Jesus said He didn't destroy anything of the Father but fulfilled each thing, the church tells us Christ destroyed even the law of Moses. Christ followed what God told us to follow for all generations such as using the tallit in prayer and celebrating God's plan for our redemption through the feasts. The church tells us Christ destroyed these things.

Christ fulfilled the office of the high priest, the church says Christ destroyed what God did when He took over this office.

We were given the Holy Spirit to guide us and replace the rituals as guides, the church says that Christ destroyed what the rituals guided us to. We were told of this before it happened when we were given the new covenant, the church tells us that what Christ did was not simply give us something new and wonderful, but what Christ did was destroy the old.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

FGC,

You are one SERIOUSLY CONFUSED INDIVIDUAL. The false doctrine of unconditional election was not believed by the early Church for about 400 years, and it was only Augustine who created this doctrine, which was then adopted by the Reformers. Which is rather strange, since Augustine is a Roman Catholic *saint*.

To suggest that God wants to save some but not others, and then to suggest that the ones who will not be saved will receive instructions as to how to live on earth is about as ABSURD as you can get.

Why don't you simply believe the Bible rather than any man-made doctrine? But perhaps it is already too late for you to repent and abandon all false teachings.

Maybe I did not make myself clear, but you missed the whole concept of my comments. No where did I suggest that the ones who will not be saved will receive instructions as to how to live on earth. The lost SHEEP of the house of Israel are the elect of God who are lacking in the knowledge of the truth. They are all saved eternally, but are lost from the knowledge of the truth of the gospel. God's people, who are saved and going to heaven, will never have the understanding of Jesus's doctrine unless the Holy Spirit reveals it to them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

why do you call them God's elect church then?
if they're preaching a false gospel and are cut off from God's people?

Most all of the people on this forum are God's elect people, yet most all of us preach a different doctrine. There is only one doctrine that is the doctrine that Jesus taught.

 

[Lanolin]

God had a protective hedge about Job, and he has a protective hedge about all of his elect. Satan is going about seeking those of God's elect who have stepped outside of that hedge because of the temptations of this world. Satan can try to keep God's elect from having a relationship with God, but he can not take away his eternal inheritance. When a child of God is convicted of his error of being tempted and repents, God delivers (saves) him from the grasp of Satan.

Well to keep sheep in its good to grow a hedge. Nowadays people are lazy and use electric fences, but when the electrricty fails they are a bit useless. And things like fences can crumble and fall down in a storm. Some farmers use barbed wire. But they dont protect from the wind like hedges do. Hedges are also good shelter and cover for wildlife and pollinating bees.

A good Shepherd tends his hedges too.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Well to keep sheep in its good to grow a hedge. Nowadays people are lazy and use electric fences, but when the electrricty fails they are a bit useless. And things like fences can crumble and fall down in a storm. Some farmers use barbed wire. But they dont protect from the wind like hedges do. Hedges are also good shelter and cover for wildlife and pollinating bees.

A good Shepherd tends his hedges too.

And your comments have reference to what?

 

[Lanolin]

And your comments have reference to what?

The protective hedge God placed around Job.

If you know anything about sheep and shepherds you will know what hedges or hedgerows are for.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The protective hedge God placed around Job.

If you know anything about sheep and shepherds you will know what hedges or hedgerows are for.

My point in referring to sheep is that God calls his born again children "sheep" and he calls those that are not his children "goats".