What became of the NT pattern of two baptisms?
- Thread starter Sketch
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I think it was not omitted. The main reason why the doctrine of Baptisms were not being address in the so called “Christian Creeds” because at the time they were created, Christianity is combatting many heretical views which Christological conflict began as early as the second century. The focus are mainly of Gnostcism and other heretical views about the Godhead.
God bless
God bless
Dont know sorry, post them here so we can see what you mean. As far as I know the creeds were Like shorthand beliefs in a nutshell, about the gospel, not its practice or how you go about obeying it. Some churches have statements of faith as their doctrines and some have like whole extra volumes of doctrines that you need to study if you join them thats even longer than the Bible itself.
I wouldnt worry about it if I were you just go by what the Bible says and what the holy spirit teaches you.
I wouldnt worry about it if I were you just go by what the Bible says and what the holy spirit teaches you.
-
1
- Show all
The answer is found in the history of the Church. Even while the apostles were alive, many heresies crept into the churches. Very soon after the demise of the apostles, the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration come into existence, and the true doctrine of regeneration by the power of the Holy Spirit and the baptism, WITH the Spirit was pushed aside.
According to Scripture one must be baptized with the Holy Spirit BEFORE one is baptized by immersion in water. See Acts 10 for the clearest example.
According to Scripture one must be baptized with the Holy Spirit BEFORE one is baptized by immersion in water. See Acts 10 for the clearest example.
In Acts 8:14-17 we see the Apostles going to Samaria to assist the new believers.
"because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them;
they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." - vs 16
There must have been no evidence that the Spirit had come on them. (that's on, not in)
You contend that the baptism with the Holy Spirit comes automatically without human assistance.
And in the example of Cornelius it did. But there was evidence. They spoke in tongues and praised God.
Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
"because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them;
they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." - vs 16
There must have been no evidence that the Spirit had come on them. (that's on, not in)
You contend that the baptism with the Holy Spirit comes automatically without human assistance.
And in the example of Cornelius it did. But there was evidence. They spoke in tongues and praised God.
Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
The order of the baptisms can go either way.
Where does the baprism with the Holy Spiirit occur in these examples?
The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two - AFTER
The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17 - AFTER
Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19 - BEFORE
The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven - BEFORE
The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen - AFTER
Where does the baprism with the Holy Spiirit occur in these examples?
The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two - AFTER
The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17 - AFTER
Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19 - BEFORE
The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven - BEFORE
The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen - AFTER
I'm amused by your mixed metaphors.
What do get when you combine "cut to the chase" and "get to the point"? (your opening sentence) lol
That's a great question though. Thanks.
Neither baptism is REQUIRED, to be saved.
Water baptism is a ceremony. An outward expression of an inward reality. (the part by which we were saved)
The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a personal decision, the same as water baptism is, and does NOT save us.
In short, we are NOT saved by baptism, either one.
What YOU call the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the indwelling that comes when we believe in Christ as savior.
But that is a RESULT of salvation, NOT a saving act.
What do get when you combine "cut to the chase" and "get to the point"? (your opening sentence) lol
That's a great question though. Thanks.
Neither baptism is REQUIRED, to be saved.
Water baptism is a ceremony. An outward expression of an inward reality. (the part by which we were saved)
The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a personal decision, the same as water baptism is, and does NOT save us.
In short, we are NOT saved by baptism, either one.
What YOU call the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the indwelling that comes when we believe in Christ as savior.
But that is a RESULT of salvation, NOT a saving act.
-
1
- Show all
Which of these examples is "anoint", rather than "baptize"?
Where does the baptism with the Holy Spirit occur in these examples?
The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two - AFTER
The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17 - AFTER
Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19 - BEFORE
The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven - BEFORE
The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen - AFTER
Where does the baptism with the Holy Spirit occur in these examples?
The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two - AFTER
The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17 - AFTER
Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19 - BEFORE
The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven - BEFORE
The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen - AFTER
One, the true unseen work of the Holy Spirit. And the other as a shadow used in ceremonial law as shadows when a new priest desires to become part of the kingdom of priest. In that way he call all believers who desire to get the gospel out into the world kings as ambassadors sent from a foreign land, not of here, but the new heavenly Jerusalem representing the bride of Christ, the church.
It is what the question was about in John3:25-26
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John3:25-26
In other words, they said to John from the tribe of levi. Why is a man from the tribe of Judah doing the officiating of a new priests? And therefore not realizing the Son of man, Jesus came to establish the new order after order of Melchizedek our High Priest continually without mother of father, without beginning of Spirt life or end thereof..(God is not a man as us) opening the way for all the nations of the world, men and women alike sent out with the gospel as a kingdom of priest . Jesus fulfilled that type or pattern called Melchizedek.
Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
It is what the question was about in John3:25-26
Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John3:25-26
In other words, they said to John from the tribe of levi. Why is a man from the tribe of Judah doing the officiating of a new priests? And therefore not realizing the Son of man, Jesus came to establish the new order after order of Melchizedek our High Priest continually without mother of father, without beginning of Spirt life or end thereof..(God is not a man as us) opening the way for all the nations of the world, men and women alike sent out with the gospel as a kingdom of priest . Jesus fulfilled that type or pattern called Melchizedek.
Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Is not salvation a saving act of God that he aplies to men when he gives them His faith needed to believe him, not seen, giving us a new spirit and new heart? How can you separate that work of salvation from salvation if it is the better thing that accompanies salvation redemption of our new soul, to begin with ?
E
I just wanted to get to the point, and we have and I thak you
Well your wrong
If you are not baptised by God, your not saved, You have not been washed, You have not been placed into union with Chrst, You have not been placed into his death and burial. Your still dead in your sin
Baptism o the spirit is an act of God. Not a personal dicision. Where did you come up with. That?
Well your wrong
If you are not baptised by God, your not saved, You have not been washed, You have not been placed into union with Chrst, You have not been placed into his death and burial. Your still dead in your sin
Baptism o the spirit is an act of God. Not a personal dicision. Where did you come up with. That?
-
1
- Show all
E
Matthew 12:39
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeksafter a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeksafter a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
I think more simply about this. If I see it in the scripture then I want it.
My first baptism of water was sprinkling because I was attending the Reformed Church when I was born again. My new birth was a result of Holy Spirit speaking to me at a very low point of life and I chose to go Gods way.
From there I attended a full gospel church, and charismatic catholic meetings and heard singing in tongues. The most beautiful sound I ever heard. Even though I had received Holy Spirit at Explo 72 in Dallas, Tx, I didn't have full release of language. That came during a service at Christian Center, South Bend, Ind.
It's all there in Acts. So if it's there, it's for us all.
Oh, later I heard about being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, so did that too, yet the sprinkling was the experience that affected my heart moreso. It was like rain on me.
My first baptism of water was sprinkling because I was attending the Reformed Church when I was born again. My new birth was a result of Holy Spirit speaking to me at a very low point of life and I chose to go Gods way.
From there I attended a full gospel church, and charismatic catholic meetings and heard singing in tongues. The most beautiful sound I ever heard. Even though I had received Holy Spirit at Explo 72 in Dallas, Tx, I didn't have full release of language. That came during a service at Christian Center, South Bend, Ind.
It's all there in Acts. So if it's there, it's for us all.
Oh, later I heard about being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, so did that too, yet the sprinkling was the experience that affected my heart moreso. It was like rain on me.