Maybe you can explain the process of his this happens.
I agree with TT, I do not believe the parable of the sower applies here.
But if you do please expand along with other thoughts you have.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I agree with TT, I do not believe the parable of the sower applies here.
But if you do please expand along with other thoughts you have.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
This does not support what you said.
The seeds which was had their life choked out never produced fruit. Are you claiming that a person who believes but before he produced any fruit whatsoever his belief is choked out was ever saved?
SO HOW COME YOU TOTALLY IGNORE THE TRUTH, THAT I HAVE TOLD TO YOU SEVERAL TIMES about OSAS?
Is it Pure Ignorance about what we Teach and Believe?
Perhaps, because it DOES NOT FIT your habitual Ridicule of OSAS?
Psalm 123:4 (NIV)
4 We have endured much ridicule from the proud, much contempt from the arrogant.
There is a THIRD WAY OF UNDERSTANDING OSAS.
1. YOU are totally Saved the moment your exercise SAVING FAITH, 1 Cor. 12:3, that includes Repentance and Receiving Christ as LORD, meaning MASTER, John 1:12-13, John 3:36, John 5:24, when the HOLY SPIRIT enters your HEART (Human Spirit), John 14:16-17, Eph 1:13, 1 Cor. 6:19, 1Th. 1:5, you are BORN AGAIN, and HE births your human spirit INTO ETERNAL LIFE, John 3:6-7, John 6:47, 1 John 5:11 .
2. THAT moment HE COMES IN, HE pours GOD's LOVE into your HEART, Rom. 5:5, and the Scriptures say HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU, John 14:16, Heb. 13:5. That LOVE IN YOUR HEART (Human Spirit), is like a Seed that is Planted in your fertile soil of your HEART, Mark 4:27-28, Mat. 13:8-9, Mat. 13:23, Luke 6:45. HE immerses (Baptizes) you into the Spiritual Body of CHRIST. YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT IS SAVED ETERNALLY AT THAT TIME, John 10:27-29, Eph. 2:4-9, 1 Tim. 1:16, 1 Cor. 2:7-13.
3. NOW as that LOVE IN YOU SPROUTS, it will BE the Same kind of LOVE, that GOD POURED in THERE. That LOVE Begins to WORKS on the Human Body or Flesh, to get it to CONFORM to the Image of Christ, a life long struggle to become more and more LIKE CHRIST. THAT PROSCESS is called SANCTIFICATION. SALVATION IS OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT, and the Process of becoming like Christ in our Christian WALK is SANCTIFICATION. Two different Processes, and saying they are the same, is an ERROR, like comparing Apples to Oranges.
4. NOW that your LOVE for GOD is the SAME kind of LOVE HE planted into your HEART, has SPROUTED. YOU WILL WANT TO SHOW YOUR OBEDIENCE AS PART OF THAT LOVE. The MIND of YOUR SPIRIT will be at WAR with the MIND of your FLESH, fighting for control at first, but the more you FEED YOUR Human Spirit on the WORD OF GOD; it will become Dominate over your Mind of Flesh. So as you spiritually Mature, you will SIN LESS, and LESS, and LESS; But your FLESH because of the inherited SIN NATURE from ADAM, will not be PERFECT, until you receive the GLORIFIED BODY at the Resurrection.
5. YOUR CHRISTIAN WALK, will include climbing into a Baptistery, or Lake, or River, as a Public Identification with CHRIST. To FOLLOW in obedience to the Example that Christ has set. The Holy Spirit PUTS HUNGER for the WORD in YOU, and a Sense of I WANT TO OBEY HIM because I LOVE HIM. We Learn to LOVE the Brethren, and others, with that SAME KIND OF LOVE GOD POURED INTO OUR HEARTS. We learn to watch, and to be aware of the genuine NEEDS that You can meet. The HOLY SPIRIT will put in the Mind of the Spirit, the THINGS He wants us to DO. Even if HE has to YELL at YOU. (I had HIM yell at me one time, when HE WANTED ME TO PICK UP A HITCH HIKER, and I put that car in a dead stop from 65 mph, with all four wheels sliding.) You will learn to tell the difference between the HOLY SPIRIT TEACHING YOU, and just your mind wondering.
6. SPIRITUAL LESSONS, are when the Holy Spirit is TEACHING, mostly from SCRIPTURE ITSELF. You get a DEEPER Understandings from those Scriptures, than those without the Spirit in them. You NEED to listen to MAKE SURE it is not a DEMON, and THEN listen HIM attentively. He guild you in your Christen Walk, show Specific Verses that Pertain to your current Situation, Fill your HEART WITH JOY, With Godly LOVE, PEACE WITH GOD, Give you ASSURANCE OF YOUR SALVATION with NOT EVEN A SINGLE DOUBT, Lead you to SOUND DOCTRINE, ETC. Oh YES, it is ALL TRUE.
7. EVERY bit of 3. to 7., is part of Sanctification. HE WILL FINISH HIS WORK on your flesh, AT THE RESURRECTION.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:20-21 (HCSB)
20 but our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
21 He will transform the body [.Note: HE has ALREADY transformed the Human Spirit, that is Born Again.] of our humble condition into the likeness of His glorious body, by the power that enables Him to subject everything to Himself.
NOW THAT IS THE TRUE DOCTRINE OF OSAS, or ETERNAL SECURITY IN CHRIST.
No TRUE Born Again Christian EVER walks away from Christ, never to return.
1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
I'll never understand the "works for salvation" crowd.
They're sinners, demanding that other sinners, stop sinning.
And to add....we must help Jesus do that which he said he would do......and by default their view states clearly that Christ, his work, his promises and his power is not sufficient to save us!
D
dokimos
Guest
Your sin will create worldly cares, and continuing in sin, we often respond with worldly solutions that snuff out the redemptive power of Jesus in your life. You will neglect the redeeming power of Jesus. You are relying on your own strength, your own will to solve problems created by your sin. It is a vicious cycle. Sin begets sin. Repentance towards God is the answer here. The more you sin willfully, deliberately, the more you block out the grace of God by rejecting His answers, His way of doing things and you dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole and that hopelessness from being in that hole is what snuffs out our faith, our BELIEF. Of course, you can argue that such a person never was saved to begin with, but not all will argue or teach that. This is obviously a process that takes time.
I am a protestant, not a Catholic.
I am a protestant, not a Catholic.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
John said a child of God can not sin.
So this would sort of negate your thinking.. If A child of God can not live in sin, then sin would never overtake them to the point they could even possibly lose faith.
It seems that the workers for, Cainologists and Pharisee cannot help but conflate scriptural truths and in so doing peddle that which is false....the following "conflated" issues lead to more errors than anything else probably....
a. Justification with sanctification
b. Salvation with fellowship
c. Grace with works
d. Faith for with faith/works for salvation
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I sadly think they have no comprehenion of what true saving faith even looks like..
Look......the road to hell is paved with religion and good intentions.....in order for one to actually see the truth they must sit their false religion aside and be willing to actually open their eyes.....just think.....right now on the planet the majority of religuonists are as lost as can be................!!!!!
D
dokimos
Guest
You don't lose your salvation because you sinned, to be clear, but running to sin leads to the process that little by little snuffs out your BELIEF in God's power to save. Avoidance of sin is good and should not be discouraged for the sake of the doctrine of substitutionary atonement.
I guess it is all a matter of who believes who is saved.
Obviously......deceived and deceiving.....!!!
Wrong........
a. Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith he begins in us...
b. If we believe not (after belief) HE ABIDES FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF (REFER TO A)
What you say above states clearly that you do not believe A and B above...
Either Jesus finishes and completes it or he is an inept liar that cannot save anyone!
I believe he KEEPS HIS WORD AND PROMISES!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am not sure which is worse. Those who think they can no longer sin, Or those. Who think. They still sin, but. Water down the law so Far, They can’t see how horrific God is at those sins and apart from Grace would be in Dire need of Salvation.
Written to believers--->Where sin abounds, Grace abounds the more!
The "boat" is full of both views........if you get the drift!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am sorry, But this to me is The same as saying You lose salvation because of sin.
And it does not matter, As I showed, John said they can not sin, so in. Reality, there would be no danger or possibility of sin snuffing Out Our belief.
I think it matter on who has true saving faith vs those who merely belief. No one is saved based on mere belief.
Funny how many believe in their mind that just because people name Jesus that they are all in the same boat.....they cannot grasp and or dismiss the truth that most of so called Christianity teaches the exact same gospel that places one into the MANY group that Jesus rejects...
a. They claim Jesus as LORD
b. They fully expect to enter based upon what they have done in His name
The above is faith plus works for salvation when boiled down!
Thank you Truthtalk, and thank you for your response, it was refreshing to read how you laid out what many of us feel in our hearts with scripture as support.