Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?

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Milee777 said:
What does the Bible mean when it says... '' the elect''... Who are these?
And if salvation is for all and Jesus died for all.. Why is there an elect..?..
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The elect means israel..the chosen people out of all the other nations, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (collectively called the children of Israel).
JEsus was born into Israel and he is the chosen ONE to save all mankind, and that includes gentiles (non-israelites) . All who believe in Jesus (both israelites/jews and gentiles) shall be saved and thus become part of Israel...Gods family and chosen nation.
 
Milee777 said:
What does the Bible mean when it says... '' the elect''... Who are these?
And if salvation is for all and Jesus died for all.. Why is there an elect..?..
Click to expand...

God foreknows the entire future and Ha has known the entire history of the universe since the day He created it... From His foreknowledge He already knows whom will accept His will and thus be saved and who will reject His will and this be damned.. From this foreknowledge he has predestined all those people who are accepting Him will to be conformed ( made into the same as) Jesus is now..

Romans 8: KJV
29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

There are people who are called calvinists who believe God made certain people to be saved and He forces them to believe Jesus and be saved and that God created other people who can never have the opportunity to accept the salvation of Jesus.. That God created some people to burn in hell.. I am not a calvinist..
 
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preacher4truth said:
Hello Milee777,

You've asked good questions. May I ask what have you read that deals with this? I would suggest this book which will answer your questions, and it is free. You can get a hard copy here. Either way I highly recommend you to read it.

As to your question about "all" being brought to repentance, it is concerning context of that passage that we must consider. The text is 2 Peter 3:9. Note this from verse 1 "To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours..." We see this then is talking to and speaking of those whom God has saved.

The "all" in that passage is those to whom Peter addresses therefore it refers to those whom he has elected. God is patiently awaiting the sending of the Lord Jesus Christ again only until each elect person he has chosen to save comes to full repentance. That is the meaning of the "all" or the "usward" in 2 Peter 3:9. Read it, see that the context there is his chosen from the very beginning of the epistle to the end, the "you" the "all" the "usward" (worded according to whichever version you're looking at) is referring to the elect.

This passage shows us why God is patient, he is patient to bring into Christ all he has chosen before the sending of his Son.

Concerning being a vessel of wrath, and your question note that even his elect were formerly under wrath, like the rest of mankind, Ephesians 2:3; Note also Ephesians 1:4-11 for context of whom Paul is addressing in the Epistle. Place your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, in his work on the cross, repent and believe his Gospel for the salvation he bought. If you have been brought to repentance and faith you need not fear his wrath, there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus; Romans 8:1.

God bless you Milee777.
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So are you saying... That if i were to preach the gospel.... It will be ineffective if 100% of the audience consisted of the non elect. You are saying the gospel is not for the non elect people...? Are you saying we need to preach the gospel to selected few?
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
To the Op.

Elect mens chosen, or predetermined. Or special

God chose a nation out of all nations to have a special purpose on earth. They are called his elect (national) and this form has no bearingn n anyone, including that nations salvation.

Then there are the elect. Chosen by God in his foreknowledge, to be saved by the will of God. What is th will of God? In John 6, It says the will of God is al who SEE and BELIEVE will be given eternal life. Never die, and be assured of ressurection to life. How do we see. The bible says through the word.

The bible does say he is the savior of all. But it also mentions that it is ESPECIALLY those who are being save. Just because hee came to save all does not mean all will be saved, He will nt force his salvation on anyone. And do not let anyone tell you otherwise.
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Where does the Bible say He is not the savior of all? John 3:16 says.. God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son that 'whoever' believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
 
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preacher4truth said:
Hello Milee777,

You've asked good questions. May I ask what have you read that deals with this? I would suggest this book which will answer your questions, and it is free. You can get a hard copy here. Either way I highly recommend you to read it.

As to your question about "all" being brought to repentance, it is concerning context of that passage that we must consider. The text is 2 Peter 3:9. Note this from verse 1 "To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours..." We see this then is talking to and speaking of those whom God has saved.

The "all" in that passage is those to whom Peter addresses therefore it refers to those whom he has elected. God is patiently awaiting the sending of the Lord Jesus Christ again only until each elect person he has chosen to save comes to full repentance. That is the meaning of the "all" or the "usward" in 2 Peter 3:9. Read it, see that the context there is his chosen from the very beginning of the epistle to the end, the "you" the "all" the "usward" (worded according to whichever version you're looking at) is referring to the elect.

This passage shows us why God is patient, he is patient to bring into Christ all he has chosen before the sending of his Son.

Concerning being a vessel of wrath, and your question note that even his elect were formerly under wrath, like the rest of mankind, Ephesians 2:3; Note also Ephesians 1:4-11 for context of whom Paul is addressing in the Epistle. Place your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, in his work on the cross, repent and believe his Gospel for the salvation he bought. If you have been brought to repentance and faith you need not fear his wrath, there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus; Romans 8:1.

God bless you Milee777.
Click to expand...
What does repentance mean by the way.. like i still keep sinning.
 
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Adstar said:
God foreknows the entire future and Ha has known the entire history of the universe since the day He created it... From His foreknowledge He already knows whom will accept His will and thus be saved and who will reject His will and this be damned.. From this foreknowledge he has predestined all those people who are accepting Him will to be conformed ( made into the same as) Jesus is now..

Romans 8: KJV
29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

There are people who are called calvinists who believe God made certain people to be saved and He forces them to believe Jesus and be saved and that God created other people who can never have the opportunity to accept the salvation of Jesus.. That God created some people to burn in hell.. I am not a calvinist..
Click to expand...
Thankfully you are not. Its horrifying how people can believe that some are mercilessly set to be burned. What if it were them?
 
Milee777 said:
So are you saying... That if i were to preach the gospel.... It will be ineffective if 100% of the audience consisted of the non elect. You are saying the gospel is not for the non elect people...? Are you saying we need to preach the gospel to selected few?
Click to expand...
Where did I say that? Where did you come up with "selected few?" All that tells me is you're being disingenuous in your questioning and have been instead on a polemic agenda.

I thought I'd offer some resources and context, but not even the least amount of gratitude is given, instead you come back with adding words to my mouth? Seriously? Wow, this is just unbelievable. You asked for help understanding then come at it like this? I've offered you some good help, please take the time since you act like you want to learn to at the least read for yourself and study what was given.

Goodness sake...

But I digress, here is a passage that may clarify your above assumptions and belligerency, maybe. Read 2 Timothy 2:8-10. Hint: no one knows who the elect are, nor even Paul.
 
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preacher4truth said:
Where did I say that? Where did you come up with "selected few?" All that tells me is you're being disingenuous in your questioning and have been instead on a polemic agenda.

I thought I'd offer some resources and context, but not even the least amount of gratitude is given, instead you come back with adding words to my mouth? Seriously? Wow, this is just unbelievable. You asked for help understanding then come at it like this? I've offered you some good help, please take the time since you act like you want to learn to at the least read for yourself and study what was given.

Goodness sake...

But I digress, here is a passage that may clarify your above assumptions and belligerency, maybe. Read 2 Timothy 2:8-10. Hint: no one knows who the elect are, nor even Paul.
Click to expand...
Am sorry you felt that way. Alright, will go through it.
 
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Milee777 said:
What does repentance mean by the way.. like i still keep sinning.
Click to expand...
Perhaps God is still waiting for you in 2 Peter 3:9? You need to take time and read the resources given. Since you're unwilling to accept these and study them out any help offered is done in futility. Please read the resource provided and seek commentary on passages given in addition to actually reading the passages themselves in context.
 
dcontroversal said:
There are two words primarily applied unto the saved....the words "elect" and "saints" both words are viewed in the following light....

a. The word elect is descriptive of the saved as being "CHOSEN" in Christ

b. The word saint is descriptive of who we are in Christ as "HOLY"

There is a deep divide upon the usage of the word elect and predestination....

My view.....before God cast down the world in creation he predetermined that all who would come to him through faith in Christ would be "elected/chosen" as sons and daughters of God and given eternal life.

That is the basic concept of the word IMV......
Click to expand...
You might consider Psalms 53:2-3 to see by his foresight, that he saw that no one would seek him.
 
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preacher4truth said:
Where did I say that? Where did you come up with "selected few?" All that tells me is you're being disingenuous in your questioning and have been instead on a polemic agenda.

I thought I'd offer some resources and context, but not even the least amount of gratitude is given, instead you come back with adding words to my mouth? Seriously? Wow, this is just unbelievable. You asked for help understanding then come at it like this? I've offered you some good help, please take the time since you act like you want to learn to at the least read for yourself and study what was given.

Goodness sake...

But I digress, here is a passage that may clarify your above assumptions and belligerency, maybe. Read 2 Timothy 2:8-10. Hint: no one knows who the elect are, nor even Paul.
Click to expand...
Alright i understood... We dont know who is the elect even as we spread the gospel.
 
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Milee777, take time to read the resource given in the link I provided. You'll be glad you read it, it is quite helpful.

God bless.
 
Adstar said:
God foreknows the entire future and Ha has known the entire history of the universe since the day He created it... From His foreknowledge He already knows whom will accept His will and thus be saved and who will reject His will and this be damned.. From this foreknowledge he has predestined all those people who are accepting Him will to be conformed ( made into the same as) Jesus is now..

Romans 8: KJV
29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

There are people who are called calvinists who believe God made certain people to be saved and He forces them to believe Jesus and be saved and that God created other people who can never have the opportunity to accept the salvation of Jesus.. That God created some people to burn in hell.. I am not a calvinist..
Click to expand...
Psalms 53:2-3, may give you insight on what God saw by his foreknowledge, and it was that he saw no one would seek him, no, not one.
 
preacher4truth said:
Perhaps God is still waiting for you in 2 Peter 3:9? You need to take time and read the resources given. Since you're unwilling to accept these and study them out any help offered is done in futility. Please read the resource provided and seek commentary on passages given in addition to actually reading the passages themselves in context.
Click to expand...
But then... Isn't the life of the non elect pathetic and futile then? How do u feel about them. Like what if its me.. What would u say abt me. Its depressing.. Isnt it
 
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preacher4truth said:
Milee777, take time to read the resource given in the link I provided. You'll be glad you read it, it is quite helpful.

God bless.
Click to expand...
If i were to say to you.. Am not the elect. What will you think... Will u have any sympathy... Or atleast u know consider how my life will just be a vapour and hell smoke awaits me.
 
Milee777 said:
But then... Isn't the life of the non elect pathetic and futile then? How do u feel about them. Like what if its me.. What would u say abt me. Its depressing.. Isnt it
Click to expand...
What if God exercised justice on all because all deserved it, and because all do deserve it? Would you complain about having a just God?

For the record those damned souls hate God and are hostile to him. They don't want to be in God's heaven.
 
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Milee777 said:
If i were to say to you.. Am not the elect. What will you think... Will u have any sympathy... Or atleast u know consider how my life will just be a vapour and hell smoke awaits me.
Click to expand...
Would you be saddened about not being elect, left in your sin without God?
 
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