See now, you do have me confused. You start to talk like you might believe in the gifts, but then you systematically deny any and all possibility of their use now.
Speaking in tongues
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I'm not "evading" anything. Scripture does not state that "the perfect" is completed Scripture; therefore such a view is an interpretation. I am not obligated to accept your interpretation as "truth".
Has "knowledge" passed away? No. For that reason alone I consider your interpretation incorrect. Verse 12 is in the same context, saying "For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face." Do we now see face to face? No.
Now you're claiming that "speaking in tongues" is not taught in the word of God? And you accuse me of ignoring the simple truth... wow.
Of course not. Having a doctrine, tongue, revelation, and interpretation were the types of 'utterances' the Corinthians were engaged in. We see this in I Corinthians 14.
It makes a lot more sense to interpret one passage in I Corinthians as consistent with other passages. There are also themes that run throughout the verse. Plugging in a concept that allows you to arrive at a doctrine you just want to believe in is not the way to go about interpreting the scripture.
For example, when we read in chapter 13 about when the perfect comes, that Paul contrasts the state before the perfect comes with what will be afterward to be like his being a child in speech, thought, and understanding and then becoming a man, we should take this in light of I Corinthians 1:7 and the fact that Paul would later write about the coming state of the believer in the resurrection at the return of Christ. There is no section of the book that discussing an upcoming completed canon, so it does not make sense to read that idea back into the passage. And we who have the canon are not so far advanced in knowledge of spiritual things beyond Paul when he wrote this book that his understanding then seems like a child's in comparison.
We see and are seen as God has revealed to us in His word. The truth of our position relative to Gods holiness is no longer hidden in shadows by made clear by the written word of God and the ministry of the Holy Spirit living in believers.
All knowledge has not passed away or all men would be completely ignorant. The knowledge in 1 Cor 13:8 is special knowledge given to the apostles and disciples to minister until the written revelation of God was completed.
Specifically I am stating that the tongues as they are "spoken" in the modern NT church are not biblical tongues. There is no evidence that they even remotely represent what God gave to the church. They are wholly inconsistent with scripture and cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit.
I am obligated to designate your interpretation as private and not biblical.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Paul was not writing of tongues in chapter one but repeating the necessity of believers to utter the truth of the gospel in every part of their life.
1 Cor 1:1 ¶ Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
This is a call to sanctification while we await the return of Christ. To be witnesses and a living testimony for Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Its about Charismatisicm. It was sign gifts that I said I do not believe in. Gifts accompanied with a sign to confirm something?
All of the gifts mentioned are still in operations to include prophecy . But the sign of God mocking those still confirm those who do not believe the gift of prophecy. ( the Hebrew unbelievers )
Look to the law in 1 Corinthians 14v verses 21 1nd 22 .Once that is established we can look to the foundation for the doctrine of tongue in Isaiah 28 to get a foundational understanding as to why God mocks those who mock him.
Knowledge is not absent from prophecy. That knowledge comes through prophecy .No new prophecy, no new knowledge. We now have the perfect and can see face to face or revealed glory to revealed glory. The gospel.... faith to faith as it is written
I would be curious to know just what law is missing by which we could know Christ more adequately or face to face?
I would agree seeing something is trying to be confirmed It makes a lot more sense to interpret one passage in I Corinthians as consistent with other passages.
It would seem the law that establishes what is confirm and who it is that the sign represents would be a good place to start. The rest of the teaching should follow after that order.
In the law "it is written", With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues "are for a sign", not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22
And that tells us exactly what one of the unknown tongues is - Greek.
So for us today the unknown tongues would be Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.
Special knowledge?
Did you cut Ephesians chapter four and 1 Corinthians twelve through fourteen out of your Bible?
Sounds like you don't need it. Or think the church doesn't.
Ephesians 4:11-13
So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
I agree those were some of the languages at Pentecost that men heard as peter spoke .I am not sure how may different languages did appear on the day when 3000 heard prophecy is their own language and believed God not seen.
It was inspect to any other lanugae other than Hebrew alone as previously up till Pentecost not excluding a believing Jew who spoke Hebrew . They all heard the message God put on the lips of Peter and also believed as a anchor of his soul
God was evangelizing the whole world as a fulfillment of Joel spoken of again in many languages that were unknow to the Hebrew.
Acts 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV)For these are "not drunken", as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
It would appear those who refused prophecy in any language according to the 3000 that did believe .They were pointing their finger calling them drunk who did believe God... again mocking God who mocked them having three fingers pointing back a themselves as the drunks.
But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. Isaiah 28:7-9
You could say mocking those who mock prophecy with stammering lips in exchange for the oral traditions of drunks who say like in Jerimiah 44.We will not hear the word of God but will rather do whatsoever comes from our own mouth as oral traditions
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Isaiah 28:11
The whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Special knowledge, as prophecy. The perfect knowledge that we do have written in the book of the law, the Bible. The knowledge by which we can see Christ face to faith (the hidden glory of God called the holy place )and not in part but the whole
2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.1 Corinthians 13:12
Clearly you do not comprehend what was the "knowledge" in the apostolic church. Knowledge given by the Holy Spirit to fishermen or other men of little formal education to refute and confound the highly educated elite of the day.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Right... because it says so in 2 Speculations 3:11.
I'm so glad you're here to tell us exactly what was given to the Church.
Which makes it different from yours how exactly? Even if my interpretation were "private", there is nothing wrong with that.
F
The bible does not agree with you on this point.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation
The bible does not agree with you on this point.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I believe what scripture teaches not capricious assertions of some men.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Add the next verse so you can understand what prophecy is.
2 Peter 1:20-21
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.