Speaking in tongues
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The Bible refers to the body of Christ in I Corinthians 12, where it tells of different members having different gifts. Among those gifts i the gift of prophecy. In a body, one part does not say to another, "I have no need of thee." So a Christian with one gift should not say to someone who has the gift of prophecy, "I have no need of thee." The Bible tells believers to earnestly desire spiritual gifts and to covet to prophesy.
Like people who do not believe that the Spirit gifts individuals with certain gifts unless they see evidence of it. For example, if one must hear speaking in tongues in a language he knows to believe the Spirit gifts such a gift.
Do you mean like adding a doctrine that says that the Spirit does not give the gifts to believers that the Bible says that the Spirit gifts to believers because the canon is closed?
It is more spiritual to recognize the works of God without having to have a sign. But Jesus did give His apostles a sign. And there is certainly no blanket condemnation on those who do signs since Jesus and the apostles did signs, too.
Disobedience to the New Testament scriptures does not equal 'not gambling.' The Bible says 'despise not prophesyings' and 'covet to prophesy.' Your theory would lead us to disobey these commands of scritpure.
We need to be discerning. Rejecting Biblical doctrine and practice is not the way to protect onesenlf from false prophets. The man who wrote these words was a miracle-worker himself.
Like people who do not believe that the Spirit gifts individuals with certain gifts unless they see evidence of it. For example, if one must hear speaking in tongues in a language he knows to believe the Spirit gifts such a gift.
Do you mean like adding a doctrine that says that the Spirit does not give the gifts to believers that the Bible says that the Spirit gifts to believers because the canon is closed?
It is more spiritual to recognize the works of God without having to have a sign. But Jesus did give His apostles a sign. And there is certainly no blanket condemnation on those who do signs since Jesus and the apostles did signs, too.
Disobedience to the New Testament scriptures does not equal 'not gambling.' The Bible says 'despise not prophesyings' and 'covet to prophesy.' Your theory would lead us to disobey these commands of scritpure.
We need to be discerning. Rejecting Biblical doctrine and practice is not the way to protect onesenlf from false prophets. The man who wrote these words was a miracle-worker himself.
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Prophecy the living, abiding, word of God that exist has not ceased. I am rather talking about new prophecy to confirm a personal experience . Like those that asy the lord gave me had a dream to confirm I believe or prophecy in another language other that Hebrew or a what some call out of the body vision . We are warned beforehand believe not(no faith)
They did not do or work signs. Signs followed after what the Spirit of Christ in them performed. Not what the apostles performed as if they were circus seals.
Signs follow the unseen work. We do not seek after signs as did the unbelieving Jew in whom the sign of tongues was against. It confirmed their unbelief, no belief in prophecy( atheistic) no God in their thoughts .
Men have turned that upside down and make God into some sort of circus seal.. do us a trick perform a miracle and then we will follow.
Jesus said its a evil generartion (natural unconverted man) that must walk by sight (no faith)
No further signs were given and no new prophecy is on the horizon
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Yes they refused to believe prophecy which offended them and again treated Christ like a circus seal
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Or like the slogan …"I am from Missouri seeing is beleiveing", No seeing no believing ( No faith) Dead in their trespasses and sin without Christ and therefore with out a living abiding hope that in the end surpasses all human understanding as a understanding that comes from God, not seen.
Signs follow the unseen work. We do not seek after signs as did the unbelieving Jew in whom the sign of tongues was against. It confirmed their unbelief, no belief in prophecy( atheistic) no God in their thoughts .
Men have turned that upside down and make God into some sort of circus seal.. do us a trick perform a miracle and then we will follow.
Jesus said its a evil generartion (natural unconverted man) that must walk by sight (no faith)
No further signs were given and no new prophecy is on the horizon
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Yes they refused to believe prophecy which offended them and again treated Christ like a circus seal
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Or like the slogan …"I am from Missouri seeing is beleiveing", No seeing no believing ( No faith) Dead in their trespasses and sin without Christ and therefore with out a living abiding hope that in the end surpasses all human understanding as a understanding that comes from God, not seen.
That is why it is important to be in a Bible reading, Bible obedient Pentecostal Church that preaches and practices
sound doctrine.
We have full knowledge of how to conduct ourselves as members of the body of Christ and measuring all things against the
scriptures:
we preach the full gospel of salvation and when witnessing to people we open our Bibles and go through the scriptures
pertaining to the promises of the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of truth …
we encourage repentance > faith > action >
water baptism by full immersion to consummate one's repentance and therefore receiving remission from past sins;
death and burial of the old person with a symbolic resurrection of a new person desiring to live a new life in Christ Jesus.
Holy Spirit baptism - seeking and asking to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of praying in a new tongue.
Reading the word of God and learning to be a new disciple.
Sharing one's testimony on when and how one was converted by the gospel and came to know the Lord.
Keeping one's testimony true - being that light in a very dark world.
https://trffresno.org/ The Revival Fellowship in USA
Church meetings:
communion every Sunday: not once a month or twice a year.
Hymns and songs sung by the congregation (no band out front entertaining us).
A sermon (teaching of doctrine) 30-40 minutes
Gift of diversity of tongues, followed by interpretation for each gift (maximum of three times).
Up to three gifts of prophecy (God talking to his Spirit-filled saints).
Prayer line where people come up to be prayed over by the oversight, elders and others, who will lay hands on such during prayers.
sound doctrine.
We have full knowledge of how to conduct ourselves as members of the body of Christ and measuring all things against the
scriptures:
we preach the full gospel of salvation and when witnessing to people we open our Bibles and go through the scriptures
pertaining to the promises of the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of truth …
we encourage repentance > faith > action >
water baptism by full immersion to consummate one's repentance and therefore receiving remission from past sins;
death and burial of the old person with a symbolic resurrection of a new person desiring to live a new life in Christ Jesus.
Holy Spirit baptism - seeking and asking to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of praying in a new tongue.
Reading the word of God and learning to be a new disciple.
Sharing one's testimony on when and how one was converted by the gospel and came to know the Lord.
Keeping one's testimony true - being that light in a very dark world.
https://trffresno.org/ The Revival Fellowship in USA
Church meetings:
communion every Sunday: not once a month or twice a year.
Hymns and songs sung by the congregation (no band out front entertaining us).
A sermon (teaching of doctrine) 30-40 minutes
Gift of diversity of tongues, followed by interpretation for each gift (maximum of three times).
Up to three gifts of prophecy (God talking to his Spirit-filled saints).
Prayer line where people come up to be prayed over by the oversight, elders and others, who will lay hands on such during prayers.
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From my perspective, the misuse of 1 Cor 13:8 is the problem.
Has knowledge passed away? Is the Holy Spirit no longer manifesting in believers?
1 Corinthians 13:8
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
Has knowledge passed away? Is the Holy Spirit no longer manifesting in believers?
1 Corinthians 13:8
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
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We need to be careful with the term "full gospel".
It is an affront to the rest of the body of Christ. What does it say about them?
Someone asked me once if I went to full gospel church.
I replied, "No, it's a half-gospel church." You should have seen the surprised look I got. --- lol
I see being in a church where the gifts are manifested as being a personal choice.
It is only for those who are comfortable with it. Those who aren't comfortable are indeed
experiencing some culture shock when they visit. And they may be blessed, or they may be revolted.
I give them credit for visiting. And even more credit if they return. But I know it's not
for everyone. And even you might not be comfortable at my church. We have a worship team
with a "band out front entertaining us" that you would obviously object to.
So, let's all cut each other a bit of slack.
If a person is a believer and has received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, that's enough
for me to consider them my brothers and sisters in Christ.
We may disagree on doctrine or practice, but that doesn't put them
out of the Body of Christ from my perspective.
And you may have higher standards than I do. That's okay as well.
It is an affront to the rest of the body of Christ. What does it say about them?
Someone asked me once if I went to full gospel church.
I replied, "No, it's a half-gospel church." You should have seen the surprised look I got. --- lol
I see being in a church where the gifts are manifested as being a personal choice.
It is only for those who are comfortable with it. Those who aren't comfortable are indeed
experiencing some culture shock when they visit. And they may be blessed, or they may be revolted.
I give them credit for visiting. And even more credit if they return. But I know it's not
for everyone. And even you might not be comfortable at my church. We have a worship team
with a "band out front entertaining us" that you would obviously object to.
So, let's all cut each other a bit of slack.
If a person is a believer and has received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, that's enough
for me to consider them my brothers and sisters in Christ.
We may disagree on doctrine or practice, but that doesn't put them
out of the Body of Christ from my perspective.
And you may have higher standards than I do. That's okay as well.
Wow! Thank you.
I was very encouraged by your reply to the question about reconciling to 1 Cor 13:8
I had forgotten about that scripture. (see below) What a treasure to find.
The Apostle OBVIOUSLY anticipates the use of ALL the spiritual gifts UNTIL the return of Christ.
That is the PERFECT that is to come. Not the Bible we have in our hands. (or on our phone) -- lol
This completely dismantles the Cessationist claims. (pulls the lynchpin)
1 Corinthians 1:7
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
I was very encouraged by your reply to the question about reconciling to 1 Cor 13:8
I had forgotten about that scripture. (see below) What a treasure to find.
The Apostle OBVIOUSLY anticipates the use of ALL the spiritual gifts UNTIL the return of Christ.
That is the PERFECT that is to come. Not the Bible we have in our hands. (or on our phone) -- lol
This completely dismantles the Cessationist claims. (pulls the lynchpin)
1 Corinthians 1:7
Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
Disobedience to the New Testament scriptures does not equal 'not gambling.' The Bible says 'despise not prophesyings' and 'covet to prophesy.' Your theory would lead us to disobey these commands of scripture.
Like many things God sets aside to be used. Tongues is two fold as a sign to confirm unbelief no faith as a curse, and the other no outward sign but a changed heart seen of God confirm he has given them the faith to believe Him not seen
Blessing and curses looking at the same event
Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Looking to fulfil a sign that confirms a person believed prophecy when none was given and therefore making your own sign by making a sound without meaning is gambling. The only sign that the believers had was no barrier between the languages. It was the only sign that they believed prophecy (the sign of no language barrier)
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Acts 2: 8
But warning and the sign prophesied in Isaiah 28 confirming men will not hear prophecy was not in reference to the believers Acts 2: 8 but to those who believed not prophecy.
No one is saying we are not to prophecy within the perfect or whole that we do have. If a person understands more than one language and prophesies the more power to them for taking the class. some understand multiple languages
The sign of tongues confirms those who will not believe prophecy . Obeying the commandment or believing prophecy has no sign needed to confirm . When a person says they believe God its not something we can see with our eyes.
Believing is a unseen work . Only God can see into a person heart and confirm he is a follower of prophecy as sons of God led by a unseen Spirit . I think you keep forgetting the sign that God would mock those came when he brought prophecy in Acts when the Holy Spirit interpreted his prophecy in the language of many nation and no longer Hebrew alone.
If you are looking for a sign that you believe God just believe. if you desire to shout or make a noise do it. But it does not confirm you believe it confirms you made a noise.
1 Corinthians 14 King James Version (KJV) 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, "not to them that believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
How about if we stay focused on the law above? What it confirms as a purpose and who it points to? And then we can move on and discuss why tongues "God speaking in other languages other than Hebrew alone" could only be possible if he was still adding new prophecy.
I would be interested in knowing if men are receiving new prophecy. what are the words of new prophecy mean as new knowledge and when will it be added to cannon in a new book. Seeing Revelation is the last chapter up till now. Perhaps the new chapter or book could be called "Tongues" ?
Like many things God sets aside to be used. Tongues is two fold as a sign to confirm unbelief no faith as a curse, and the other no outward sign but a changed heart seen of God confirm he has given them the faith to believe Him not seen
Blessing and curses looking at the same event
Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Looking to fulfil a sign that confirms a person believed prophecy when none was given and therefore making your own sign by making a sound without meaning is gambling. The only sign that the believers had was no barrier between the languages. It was the only sign that they believed prophecy (the sign of no language barrier)
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Acts 2: 8
But warning and the sign prophesied in Isaiah 28 confirming men will not hear prophecy was not in reference to the believers Acts 2: 8 but to those who believed not prophecy.
No one is saying we are not to prophecy within the perfect or whole that we do have. If a person understands more than one language and prophesies the more power to them for taking the class. some understand multiple languages
The sign of tongues confirms those who will not believe prophecy . Obeying the commandment or believing prophecy has no sign needed to confirm . When a person says they believe God its not something we can see with our eyes.
Believing is a unseen work . Only God can see into a person heart and confirm he is a follower of prophecy as sons of God led by a unseen Spirit . I think you keep forgetting the sign that God would mock those came when he brought prophecy in Acts when the Holy Spirit interpreted his prophecy in the language of many nation and no longer Hebrew alone.
If you are looking for a sign that you believe God just believe. if you desire to shout or make a noise do it. But it does not confirm you believe it confirms you made a noise.
1 Corinthians 14 King James Version (KJV) 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, "not to them that believe", but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
How about if we stay focused on the law above? What it confirms as a purpose and who it points to? And then we can move on and discuss why tongues "God speaking in other languages other than Hebrew alone" could only be possible if he was still adding new prophecy.
I would be interested in knowing if men are receiving new prophecy. what are the words of new prophecy mean as new knowledge and when will it be added to cannon in a new book. Seeing Revelation is the last chapter up till now. Perhaps the new chapter or book could be called "Tongues" ?
The gospel as those who believe prophecy is the highest standard
If you have the full gospel confirmed by trusting a sign why the need to add more prophecy, as a tongue? What would it confirm and those who have less, what would that confirm about them... a sign of unbelief??
If it does not confirm they are not hearing the full gospel what does it confirm ? another gospel?
If you have the full gospel confirmed by trusting a sign why the need to add more prophecy, as a tongue? What would it confirm and those who have less, what would that confirm about them... a sign of unbelief??
If it does not confirm they are not hearing the full gospel what does it confirm ? another gospel?
Since when is speaking a language you learned to speak (physical natural ability) in a language class equal to
the manifestation of the Holy Spirit (spiritual supernatural ability) called tongues?
You seem to have a complete disconnect about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Obey this.
1 Corinthians 12:1, 7
Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
the manifestation of the Holy Spirit (spiritual supernatural ability) called tongues?
You seem to have a complete disconnect about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Obey this.
1 Corinthians 12:1, 7
Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
Not discontent with the unseen work of spiritual, unseen gifts. Just the idea of sign as that seen as gifts are used confirm a person made a noise without understanding or got wet with water or placed a hand on someone saying it could heal .
No such thing as "sign gifts" we walk by the exclusive faith that alone comes from hearing prophecy which would include baptism or healing. The two words (sign gift) never become one. we walk by faith not by sight. The lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh bringing the false pride of this life.
Signs throughout the scripture represent those who refuse to believe prophecy alone. Signs follow after and not lead a person to work make a noise and say it confirms something .
It was the whole purpose of the rod or staff as sign of rebellion against those who would not believe the prophecy of Abraham 400 years earlier. Because they refused to believe God unseen God brought a signs and wonders against them who had no faith coming from prophecy
Exodus 4:16-18 King James Version (KJV) And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs.
Outward signs are a token against the rebels that refuse to hear prophecy . not to confirm prophecy but confirm those who refuse to believe (have faith)
Numbers 17:10 And the Lord said unto Moses, Bring Aaron's rod again before the testimony, to be kept for a token against the rebels; and thou shalt quite take away their murmurings from me, that they die not.
Again on another occasion a sign against those who refuse to hear the word of God, prophecy. This time the sign came against Moses who would not be allowed to enter the promised land as a sign against him. Moses adding to prophecy striking the rock twice. As if the law of God represented by Moses in respect to the father striking Christ (Isaiah 53) the Rock more than once as in double jeopardy.
The water coming out representing the gospel
The parable below is in respect to the second time the rock was struck as a sign against those who refuse to hear prophecy (walk by faith)
Numbers 20:9-11 King James Version (KJV) And Moses took the rod from before the Lord, as he commanded him.
And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
When is the last time you heard men gathering together from all the nations of the world only knowing their own language and have the ability to commune with whosoever they desired without a literal interpreter . It would give new meaning to untied Nations (193 languages)
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Acts 2:8
No such thing as "sign gifts" we walk by the exclusive faith that alone comes from hearing prophecy which would include baptism or healing. The two words (sign gift) never become one. we walk by faith not by sight. The lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh bringing the false pride of this life.
Signs throughout the scripture represent those who refuse to believe prophecy alone. Signs follow after and not lead a person to work make a noise and say it confirms something .
It was the whole purpose of the rod or staff as sign of rebellion against those who would not believe the prophecy of Abraham 400 years earlier. Because they refused to believe God unseen God brought a signs and wonders against them who had no faith coming from prophecy
Exodus 4:16-18 King James Version (KJV) And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs.
Outward signs are a token against the rebels that refuse to hear prophecy . not to confirm prophecy but confirm those who refuse to believe (have faith)
Numbers 17:10 And the Lord said unto Moses, Bring Aaron's rod again before the testimony, to be kept for a token against the rebels; and thou shalt quite take away their murmurings from me, that they die not.
Again on another occasion a sign against those who refuse to hear the word of God, prophecy. This time the sign came against Moses who would not be allowed to enter the promised land as a sign against him. Moses adding to prophecy striking the rock twice. As if the law of God represented by Moses in respect to the father striking Christ (Isaiah 53) the Rock more than once as in double jeopardy.
The water coming out representing the gospel
The parable below is in respect to the second time the rock was struck as a sign against those who refuse to hear prophecy (walk by faith)
Numbers 20:9-11 King James Version (KJV) And Moses took the rod from before the Lord, as he commanded him.
And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
When is the last time you heard men gathering together from all the nations of the world only knowing their own language and have the ability to commune with whosoever they desired without a literal interpreter . It would give new meaning to untied Nations (193 languages)
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Acts 2:8