Matthew 23:8-12

[SpoonJuly]

These verses clearly state that we are not to have masters or assume the role of master as a child of God.
But it seems that many local churches ignore this Scripture.
Some local churches seem to have a milti-tier membership. Those who are in authority, rule the congregation, assume the role of master while the majority have little or no voice in the affairs of the local church.

Why do local church members allow this to happen?
Why do some assume they are special, anointed by God, and make themselves masters over others?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Those who are in authority, rule the congregation, assume the role of master while the majority have little or no voice in the affairs of the local church.

The Bible is clear that while there are to be elders (pastor/elder/bishops) in each local church with authority, *rule* or *governments*, they are not to be *masters* or *lords* over the flock.

1 PETER 5
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

"Taking the oversight thereof" corresponds to the word episkopos, meaning *overseer*, and translated as *bishop* in the KJV. And those who take oversight must *rule* or govern the church. But they cannot be despots, since their primary responsibility is the welfare of the souls of those in the flock.

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. (Heb 13:7)

"...who have spoken unto you the word of God" corresponds to "feed the flock" which means the ministry of the Word (both milk & meat). Since these men (not women) are supposed to be shepherds, they are NOT TO ABUSE the flock, but lead by example, as Peter says.

This is what is in the Word, presenting the ideal, but that does not mean that there is no abuse of authority in churches. And that is why a plurality of elders is essential, and according to Scripture. Which means that is one elder is out of line, the others will set him straight and have him removed. No NT church was to have a one-man ministry.

 

[Lanolin]

These verses clearly state that we are not to have masters or assume the role of master as a child of God.
But it seems that many local churches ignore this Scripture.
Some local churches seem to have a milti-tier membership. Those who are in authority, rule the congregation, assume the role of master while the majority have little or no voice in the affairs of the local church.

Why do local church members allow this to happen?
Why do some assume they are special, anointed by God, and make themselves masters over others?

Good question thats what I'm wondering too. We all meant to be brothers and sisters, but I suppose elder brothers and sisters always prone to bullying their younger brothers and sisters. Just because they are older and bigger and sit on the church board or whatever they call themselves. Its always happened....
Its always do as I say not as I do...because they dont do anything. Just tell others what to do, and dont lift a finger themselves.

Jesus is our Moses, and he did not abuse his authority. Moses did that one time when he spoke harshly to the israelites and God punished him by not letting him into the promised land.

 

[pottersclay]

Basically because the rest of the congregation is afraid to speak up. Not knowing who they are in Christ Jesus.
This world has conformed us to believing we need a seen leader . Someone in charge.
We are the body and not the head. We are not organized religion. We are faith believing followers.
When we place a name of our faith such as Baptist, Methodist, penecostal, ect we pigion hole ourselves.
Christianty covers a wide variety of believers from evangelicals to mormens. So that doesn't even count.
Did you know that faith based belief is not protected under the U.S. constitution? Only religion is. So maybe that's where it starts??

 

[Lanolin]

I dont think its because of being afraid to speak up. Its because those in charge and abusing their authority will shut down anyone attempting to speak. This is not just in churches but in workplaces too. And sad to say, on forums, but thankfully not on this one

 

[Lafftur]

These verses clearly state that we are not to have masters or assume the role of master as a child of God.
But it seems that many local churches ignore this Scripture.
Some local churches seem to have a milti-tier membership. Those who are in authority, rule the congregation, assume the role of master while the majority have little or no voice in the affairs of the local church.

Why do local church members allow this to happen?
Why do some assume they are special, anointed by God, and make themselves masters over others?

Whoa!!! Be careful! Aaron and Miriam got in big trouble speaking against Moses........

Of course, there is bad leadership too.

Jesus said some are shepherds and some are hirelings. Shepherds lay their life down for the sheep and hirelings run off to save their own life’s when wolves come to devour the sheep.

 

[p_rehbein]

Not sure what you mean by "masters," however, IF you are speaking of Congregations having Board of Directors and such, then you need to read about how the Apostle Paul said a Church should operate.......with Deacons, Elders, Pastors and such, AND EVERYTHING done in an orderly manner.

Not a single thing unBiblical about Congregations properly organizing and being good stewards of what God has blessed them with.

Folks should serve in one of these roles in a Church to learn just how needed they are

 

[pottersclay]

I dont think its because of being afraid to speak up. Its because those in charge and abusing their authority will shut down anyone attempting to speak. This is not just in churches but in workplaces too. And sad to say, on forums, but thankfully not on this one

And ya see there you go again "those in charge" we are the church God will add as he sees fit. Jesus is in charge.

 

[Lanolin]

Aaron and Miriam were Moses big brother and sister. I think maybe you could expect them to be a bit jealous of their little brother being their leader. No excuse though, miriam was especially mean about Moses wife.

 

[Lanolin]

And ya see there you go again "those in charge" we are the church God will add as he sees fit. Jesus is in charge.

What do you mean there you go again.
Just saying. Jesus is in charge, not people who take charge. Nobody can usurp Jesus.

 

[Deuteronomy]

These verses clearly state that we are not to have masters or assume the role of master as a child of God.
But it seems that many local churches ignore this Scripture.
Some local churches seem to have a milti-tier membership. Those who are in authority, rule the congregation, assume the role of master while the majority have little or no voice in the affairs of the local church.

Why do local church members allow this to happen?
Why do some assume they are special, anointed by God, and make themselves masters over others?

Hi SpoonJuly, I believe that the Lord, in saying what He did in Matthew 23, was teaching His Apostles (and His other disciples, which certainly includes us today) how to be teachers, IOW, what He expected of them (and of us today) as witnesses/evangelists/teachers, as those who are to rightly divide His word and choose to humbly/lovingly bring it, and therefore Him, to others all over the world. He, in fact, sent His Apostles (the 12) and His disciples (the 70) out to teach, even while He still walked among them .. Luke 9:1-6; Luke 10:1-20, and it was the last commandment He gave them (and us) prior to His Ascension .. e.g. Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15, Acts 1:8 (and even afterwards .. Acts 9:15 in the case of Paul).

In Matthew 23, Christ is merely forbidding the use of such names as spiritual titles, or in an ostentatious sense that accords undue spiritual authority to a human being, as if he were the source of truth rather than God. ..MacArthur, J. Jr.

So what the Lord seemed concerned with there (Matt 23) is seen in the opening verses, that as Christians, teachers and leaders are not to Lord it over the flock (like the Pharisees did), for both the sake of those they were serving, as well for their own spiritual well-being.

~Deut

Hebrews 13​

17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.​

.

 

[pottersclay]

What do you mean there you go again.
Just saying. Jesus is in charge, not people who take charge. Nobody can usurp Jesus.

We are to come together because we are the church....not to form a church.
Everyone in the assembly is called by God. Everyone in the assembly has a inportant roll .
Jesus said if you want to be the greatest serve all not rule over all.

 

[JaumeJ]

Check the varied translations of "master when in reference to being over others, making certain it isnot in the snse of being a teacher. Then share it with anyu who need to hear it.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Not sure what you mean by "masters," however, IF you are speaking of Congregations having Board of Directors and such, then you need to read about how the Apostle Paul said a Church should operate.......with Deacons, Elders, Pastors and such, AND EVERYTHING done in an orderly manner.

Not a single thing unBiblical about Congregations properly organizing and being good stewards of what God has blessed them with.

Folks should serve in one of these roles in a Church to learn just how needed they are

And each of those are a place of service to the congregation not a place to rule as is most often the case.
I have had conversation with one who believes that God seems to anoint some with the authority to rule over a congregation, that the members should have no say because they do not possess the "higher gifts".
Just because each member has a say in the affairs of a local church does not mean there is not order.

 

[p_rehbein]

And each of those are a place of service to the congregation not a place to rule as is most often the case.
I have had conversation with one who believes that God seems to anoint some with the authority to rule over a congregation, that the members should have no say because they do not possess the "higher gifts".
Just because each member has a say in the affairs of a local church does not mean there is not order.

Ok, glad you clarified........in that case, I agree that it would not be in accordance to Scripture as I understand it.

 

[pottersclay]

I see so many of these threads saying my church this or the church that....really gets me going😤
If you see error speak up or don't you care about the other saints. Or perhaps your afraid of being corrected?
Better to be rebuked by a friend than a kiss from the enemy.
God gave most 2arms, 2 legs, and a mouth, how far will you go to serve the Lord??
Let me look up bench warmer as a position in the church......hhmmm.....nothing there.
Some have no problem correcting others on this forum but then again there is a ignore button we can press.
Hey that's the ticket...install ignore buttons in the church.....I'll bring that up next meeting.....
Your concern should be voiced don't you think God would honor it if it is a genuine concern??? Right or wrong??
Why is the church so ineffective and weak? I think it starts right here. Judgement starts in the house of the Lord.
Jesus warned the 7 churches in Asia Minor because he loved them and did not want to see them fail.
If you got something going on that is not bibical to your understanding speak don't leave if they do not hear you bring other witnesses.
If you stand corrected thank God. If they stand accused and receive correction praise God. If they rebuke and carry on with error dust off your feet and move on keeping them in prayer.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Ok, glad you clarified........in that case, I agree that it would not be in accordance to Scripture as I understand it.

The question I ask about those who serve in the office of Pastor, Deacon, or Elder----
Who placed them there?
At some point, a man, or a board, or a committee, or a congregation put them in that position.
Surely they did not just walk into a local church and say God sent me and they were accepted.
So what is so wrong with a local congregation placing men in the places of service as long as they make sure they are qualified according the Scripture and after much prayer a seeking the leadership of the Holy Spirit.

Could be that the reasons so many are abandoning local churches is because they feel like second class believers. having no say in the affairs of the church, not being a part of the ruling class.

 

[Dino246]

Good question thats what I'm wondering too. We all meant to be brothers and sisters, but I suppose elder brothers and sisters always prone to bullying their younger brothers and sisters. Just because they are older and bigger and sit on the church board or whatever they call themselves. Its always happened....
Its always do as I say not as I do...because they dont do anything. Just tell others what to do, and dont lift a finger themselves.

Jesus is our Moses, and he did not abuse his authority. Moses did that one time when he spoke harshly to the israelites and God punished him by not letting him into the promised land.

You might want to check Numbers 20 regarding your last sentence. Moses struck a rock when God told him to speak to it. For that he died outside the promised land.

 

[SpoonJuly]

The Bible is clear that while there are to be elders (pastor/elder/bishops) in each local church with authority, *rule* or *governments*, they are not to be *masters* or *lords* over the flock.

1 PETER 5
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

"Taking the oversight thereof" corresponds to the word episkopos, meaning *overseer*, and translated as *bishop* in the KJV. And those who take oversight must *rule* or govern the church. But they cannot be despots, since their primary responsibility is the welfare of the souls of those in the flock.

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. (Heb 13:7)

"...who have spoken unto you the word of God" corresponds to "feed the flock" which means the ministry of the Word (both milk & meat). Since these men (not women) are supposed to be shepherds, they are NOT TO ABUSE the flock, but lead by example, as Peter says.

This is what is in the Word, presenting the ideal, but that does not mean that there is no abuse of authority in churches. And that is why a plurality of elders is essential, and according to Scripture. Which means that is one elder is out of line, the others will set him straight and have him removed. No NT church was to have a one-man ministry.

But who are to select these elders?

 

[SpoonJuly]

And ya see there you go again "those in charge" we are the church God will add as he sees fit. Jesus is in charge.

Yes, Jesus is in charge.
But He chooses to work through men---Preaching, teaching, music
And all to often a few men take it upon themselves to claim a special anointing and want to take charge and rule over the many in a local church.