Not By Works

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preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#79,521
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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113
#79,521
dcontroversal said:
So....boiled down a man does not need to do anything, no confession of faith, no acknowledging Christ in belief, no need for the word of God being witnessed or proclaimed....just live life because at the end if you are chosen your saved and if not you are bumming right.....so....the following verses need to be removed...

If you believe AND CONFESS <-no need to confess you are elected or not.

Sir what must I do to be saved....NOTHING BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY ELECTED...no need to CONFESS Jesus as Lord

Heck....the thief on the cross should have saved his breath...no need to confess Jesus as Lord....he was already elected....

The absurdity of it all........hahahahaha
Click to expand...
All the above is dishonest and a straw man. You going to man up and represent me correctly or continue to do the ridicule and mockery thing like the above? It's really callow of you bro.

For the record I'll discuss this and your position: You did something then God saved you because you did something.

For example: You repented so God saved you for repenting, you believed so God saved you for believing.

That would make you saved by you own efforts (works). Or, it could be you're mistaken and those things mean something else Biblically.

Hmmmm.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#79,522
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#79,522
preacher4truth said:
All the above is dishonest and a straw man. You going to man up and represent me correctly or continue to do the ridicule and mockery thing like the above? It's really callow of you bro.

For the record I'll discuss this and your position: You did something then God saved you because you did something.

For example: You repented so God saved you for repenting, you believed so God saved you for believing.

That would make you saved by you own efforts (works). Or, it could be you're mistaken and those things mean something else Biblically.

Hmmmm.
Click to expand...
Not hardly pal....yep you make the pal designation.....you are not being honest with what you peddle....

You say man has NO PART in his salvation and is automatically elected before creation....the following verses cast doubt on that view....and make no mistake, your flippant response of saying I believe in a works based salvation because I believe the bible clearly states that WE MUST CONFESS OUR BELIEF into Christ is not only false, it is idiotic and not being honest with the scriptures.....

I like you, but your mouthy flippant accusations based upon holding to ANOTHER MAN'S DOGMA (Calvin) while disregarding the verses that totally contradict that view reeks of complete dishonesty.....

So.....honestly address me and the scriptures I have given over two days that contradict the Calvinistic view of scripture while being honest with the fact that none of us teach a works based salvation or simply don't address me......

God would HAVE ALL MEN BE SAVED AND COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH

Sirs, WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED......

HE THAT BELIEVES AND CONFESSES

COME LET US REASON TOGETHER SAITH THE LORD!

ALMOST THOU PERSUADEST ME TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN

WHOSEVER BELIEVES ON HIM.....

and lastly....why won't you answer @Budman

Are there babies and children in hell?

Yes or no and then qualify your answer brother!
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#79,523
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#79,523
DC, can I hit you up in PM concerning this? I'm not going to debate this with you in public forum. I value our friendship too much for that.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#79,526
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#79,526
dcontroversal said:
Not hardly pal....yep you make the pal designation.....you are not being honest with what you peddle....

You say man has NO PART in his salvation and is automatically elected before creation....the following verses cast doubt on that view....and make no mistake, your flippant response of saying I believe in a works based salvation because I believe the bible clearly states that WE MUST CONFESS OUR BELIEF into Christ is not only false, it is idiotic and not being honest with the scriptures.....

I like you, but your mouthy flippant accusations based upon holding to ANOTHER MAN'S DOGMA (Calvin) while disregarding the verses that totally contradict that view reeks of complete dishonesty.....

So.....honestly address me and the scriptures I have given over two days that contradict the Calvinistic view of scripture while being honest with the fact that none of us teach a works based salvation or simply don't address me......

God would HAVE ALL MEN BE SAVED AND COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH

Sirs, WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED......

HE THAT BELIEVES AND CONFESSES

COME LET US REASON TOGETHER SAITH THE LORD!

ALMOST THOU PERSUADEST ME TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN

WHOSEVER BELIEVES ON HIM.....

and lastly....why won't you answer @Budman

Are there babies and children in hell?

Yes or no and then qualify your answer brother!
Click to expand...
My friend, this here is what I said earlier and you told me I needed to lay off the juice. You are just posting a verse here and a verse there and saying "there ya go, I've proven my point!"

There is no exegesis whatsoever, just verse-ology.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#79,528
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#79,528
Budman said:
Are there babies/children in hell?
Click to expand...
I do not know my friend. The bible is not explicitly clear on this subject. People readily jump to 2 Samuel 12 as proof they die and go to heaven, but that is David grieving the loss of his child and him wanting to be buried with him, not a claim that he is going to be with his son in heaven.

Here is why I say this. David is not contradicting himself by saying he is going to heaven to be with his son when he wrote...

5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

6 Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.

7 Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.


8 Make me to hear joy and gladness,
Let the bones which You have broken rejoice.

9 Hide Your face from my sins
And blot out all my iniquities.(Psalm 51)

And also...

1 Do you indeed speak righteousness, O gods?
Do you judge uprightly, O sons of men?

2 No, in heart you work unrighteousness;
On earth you weigh out the violence of your hands.

3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;
These who speak lies go astray from birth.

4 They have venom like the venom of a serpent;
Like a deaf cobra that stops up its ear,

5 So that it does not hear the voice of charmers,
Or a skillful caster of spells.(Psalm 58)


He knew we were born dead in Adam, dead in our sins. So he would not contradict himself.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#79,529
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#79,529
Budman said:
Are there babies/children in hell?
Click to expand...
If babies, upon death, are automatically ushered into heaven, then allowing them to grow to adulthood and died eternally lost would be the most cruel thing to do. You raised a child that would have a clear ticket to heaven, an eternity in the presence of a triune God, the singing of the angels, street(s) of gold, a gate made of pearl, walls made of jasper, and allowed them to die and go to an eternal hell.
 
calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#79,530
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#79,530
I looked in my concordance. Calvin's name isn't in it. Since as far as heaven hell and salvation go if it's not between "In the beginning" and "The Grace of the Lord Jesus be with Gods people. Amen." It's only an opinion everybody has one just like a belly button.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#79,531
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#79,531
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
My friend, this here is what I said earlier and you told me I needed to lay off the juice. You are just posting a verse here and a verse there and saying "there ya go, I've proven my point!"

There is no exegesis whatsoever, just verse-ology.
Click to expand...
Blah blah blah.....yadda yadda yadda exactly why you are bloviating!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#79,532
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#79,532
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
If babies, upon death, are automatically ushered into heaven, then allowing them to grow to adulthood and died eternally lost would be the most cruel thing to do. You raised a child that would have a clear ticket to heaven, an eternity in the presence of a triune God, the singing of the angels, street(s) of gold, a gate made of pearl, walls made of jasper, and allowed them to die and go to an eternal hell.
Click to expand...
Opinion alert no scripture!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#79,533
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#79,533
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
I do not know my friend. The bible is not explicitly clear on this subject. People readily jump to 2 Samuel 12 as proof they die and go to heaven, but that is David grieving the loss of his child and him wanting to be buried with him, not a claim that he is going to be with his son in heaven.

Here is why I say this. David is not contradicting himself by saying he is going to heaven to be with his son when he wrote...

5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

6 Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.

7 Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.


8 Make me to hear joy and gladness,
Let the bones which You have broken rejoice.

9 Hide Your face from my sins
And blot out all my iniquities.(Psalm 51)

And also...

1 Do you indeed speak righteousness, O gods?
Do you judge uprightly, O sons of men?

2 No, in heart you work unrighteousness;
On earth you weigh out the violence of your hands.

3 The wicked are estranged from the womb;
These who speak lies go astray from birth.

4 They have venom like the venom of a serpent;
Like a deaf cobra that stops up its ear,

5 So that it does not hear the voice of charmers,
Or a skillful caster of spells.(Psalm 58)


He knew we were born dead in Adam, dead in our sins. So he would not contradict himself.
Click to expand...
Opinion alert...nothing but opinion....
 
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