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Dec 12, 2013
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I have another question and why I say there must be a balance between both sides in scripture....

It is not a contradictory statement to say the following....

God would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of thrme truth

God chooses some for hell

How can the above be reconciled without a complete and utter contradiction?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I have another question and why I say there must be a balance between both sides in scripture....

It is not a contradictory statement to say the following....

God would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of thrme truth

God chooses some for hell

How can the above be reconciled without a complete and utter contradiction?
Refresh my memory, where does the Bible say God would have all men be saved?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Refresh my memory, where does the Bible say God would have all men be saved?
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Refresh my memory, where does the Bible say God would have all men be saved?

I think this is the Scripture that you two are searching for:


2 Peter 3:8-9 (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I think this is the Scripture that you two are searching for:


2 Peter 3:8-9 (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Actually there are two witnessess...one in Timothy and one in Peter...I quoted both when he asked
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Sorry again mailmandan but...

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

. . .

Have you EVER considered that YOU are the one who has been DECEIVED with FALSE DOCTRINE ? ? ?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Being on my phone CC does not spell check me like my PC does hahhah I need to proof read before I post....my fingers on this phone are butchering words left and right haha
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Nice try rebel soldier. Ever heard of Lucifers pride and rebellion and the Son of perdition? Doesn't sound like he's obedient to authorities. Now if you're a good soldier, YOU will obey your commanding officer. Take as an example the people of God who won so many battles and were saved from destruction whenever they OBEY God as their commander. Did you trust and OBEY your commanding officer in the Marines?

Why won't you obey the Lord Jesus when He says that "if you want to ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

...“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Luke 6:46


NOW THAT IS A LOW BLOW. We DO Strive to Obey, but WE DO IT AS AN ACT OF LOVE, Our PURE MOTIVE.

You seem to Do it out of a Sense of Duty and "I HAVE TO OBEY!"

The Difference is as vast a difference as NIGHT and DAY.

OUR MOTIVE IS ALWAYS IN THE LIGHT.

YOUR MOTIVE SEEMS LIKE DARKNESS TO US.

You have to be BORN AGAIN FIRST (equals SALVATION), before YOU CAN LOVE THE LORD LIKE THAT.

DO YOU LOVE WITH THIS KIND OF LOVE THAT ONLY COMES FROM GOD?


1 Corinthians 13:3-8 (HCSB)
3 And if I donate all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body in order to boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, is not boastful, is not conceited,
5 does not act improperly, is not selfish, is not provoked, and does not keep a record of wrongs.
6 ⌊Love⌋ finds no joy in unrighteousness but rejoices in the truth.
7 ⌊It⌋ bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for languages, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end.


1 John 3:17 (NCV)
17 Suppose someone has enough to live and sees a brother or sister in need, but does not help. Then God’s love is not living in that person.

1 Corinthians 16:22 (CSBBible)
22 If anyone does not love the Lord, a curse be on him. Our Lord, come!


SEE IT? The MOTIVE for Obedience HAS to be LOVE that spawns from HIS LOVE the Holy Spirit poured into our HEARTS.
If it is NOT BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM, then it is FILTHY RAGS, no matter how many commands you THINK you have obeyed.
You have to be Born Again, to LOVE like that, or you are only RUNNING with this Crowd, MAT. 7:20-23.
NOTE: The Primary Spiritual Fruit is LOVE, Gal. 5:22, so you have to be Born Again.


You seem to put the Emphasis on the DEED, and NOT THE MOTIVE FOR THE DEEDS, which is ERROR.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

John 14:21 (HCSB)
21 The one who has My commands and keeps them is the one who loves Me. And the one who loves Me will be loved by My Father. I also will love him and will reveal Myself to him.”

1 John 5:3 (CSBBible)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep his commands. And his commands are not a burden,


IT IS NOT A BURDEN, ONLY WHEN IT IS DOWN OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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...But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. 1 Corinthians 4:19-20

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26

Dead and WITHOUT POWER.

...These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit Jude 1:19
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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...But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. 1 Corinthians 4:19-20

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26

Dead and WITHOUT POWER.

...These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit Jude 1:19


Let me try to get you to see the light.


I think you are the one that has said that man can lose His Salvation.

I say that is impossible for those with GENUINE BIBLICAL LOVE, because in 1 John 2:19 it says that those who went out, NONE were of us.


NOW IT SAYS THAT WHO HAVE GENUINE BIBLICAL LOVE, IT NEVER ENDS.

1 Corinthians 13:8 (HCSB)
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for languages, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end,


NOW, that fits my interpretation of 1 John 2:19 - PERFECTLY.

BUT those with your THEORY that man can lose his SALVATION, you have to ALTAR both 1 John 2:19, and 1 Cor. 13:8 VIOLATING Deut. 4:2, OR you have to admit you made a mistake, OR you are calling GOD a liar? WHICH IS IT ? ? ?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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It's very telling to me that none of the Calvinists will answer the question if there are babies/children in hell.

If they are so certain of election, then why won't they admit that when babies or young children die, some have been selected for salvation and some for damnation?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It's very telling to me that none of the Calvinists will answer the question if there are babies/children in hell.

If they are so certain of election, then why won't they admit that when babies or young children die, some have been selected for salvation and some for damnation?
I have a hard time jiving God chose some for hell and the witness of Timothy and Peter that God would have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth as I posted above....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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@Sackcloth-N-Ashes <--Funny and telling at the same time...I can quote a verse that states verbatim that Christ is the savior of ALL MEN especially of those that believe and then get questioned, mouthed and a big red X

Tells me all I need to know about the honesty and integrity of the one that gave me an big red X.....as in NONE!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It's very telling to me that none of the Calvinists will answer the question if there are babies/children in hell.

If they are so certain of election, then why won't they admit that when babies or young children die, some have been selected for salvation and some for damnation?
I have come to the conclusion with some on here that they have no integrity and or honesty......I referenced the following verse, was questioned about it twice, mouthed and now getting big red Xs on my response telling him to take it up with God who inspired the verse!

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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@Sackcloth-N-Ashes <--Funny and telling at the same time...I can quote a verse that states verbatim that Christ is the savior of ALL MEN especially of those that believe and then get questioned, mouthed and a big red X

Tells me all I need to know about the honesty and integrity of the one that gave me an big red X.....as in NONE!
I already answered 1 Timothy 4:10 already.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Here is your problem my friend...you are taking one verse from the whole and extrapolating it. I can do that and come up with some of the worst doctrine(s) out there. But you can not take a verse and extrapolate it and consider that to be solid hermeneutics.

1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. (1 Timothy 2)

Here is what gets lost in the shuffle. It says He(Jesus) is the Mediator between God and man. He is now our High Priest, as the OT high priest typified Jesus. Now, who did the OT high priest intercede for, mediate for? All men indiscriminately or the Jews? It was for the nation of Israel. He never interceded for the Hivites, Jebusites, Hittites, Assyrians, Egyptians, Syrians, Philistines, &c. When Aaron laid his hands upon the scapegoat in Leviticus 16, whose sins were placed upon it and then led into the wilderness? The Jews. Those other nations did not have a sacrificial system that would allow for their sins to be atoned for. Only Israel had this. Jesus does not intercede for all men, my friend, but only for His people, as the OT high priest only interceded for the people of God.

1 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.
3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.(2 Peter 3)


Look at all the personal pronouns and nouns. This was addressed to believers my friend, not unbelievers. He is not willing any of them, these believers to perish. In fact, He was so unwilling for them to perish, He sent them a redeemer who died for them.

And Jesus proves this...

12 “What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish."(Matthew 18)

In John 10 Jesus says He is giving His life for the sheep(verses 10 and 15). He said He was not praying for the world, but those the Father gave Him(John 17:9). Then is Ephesians 5:25 it says that He gave His life for the church. Nowhere does these verses mean all men. Nowhere.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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Add something of value Seoche.....instead of incessant moronic attacks.....

Faith saves....not your religious hoop jumping false equation.....!!
Listening and Doing
...My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does. If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. James 1:19-27


What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:3-4
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Let's look at another verse that people extrapolate from its context my friend @dcontroversal...

But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.(Hebrews 2:9)

If you single this verse out, it would appear that the writer says that Jesus died for everyone. However, that is not what Jesus uttered in John 10:11,15. Earlier in John 6 He said that not everyone can come to Him, only those who are drawn by the Father can come to Him(verses 44 & 65). We know that there is no schisms in the word of God, as each verse in the bible is harmonious with the other verses in the bible.

So, let us delve deeper into Hebrews 2...

10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying,

“I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN,


IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.”

13 And again,

“I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM.”


And again,

“BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME."

Those who He died for, the everyone in verse 9, are those who in verses 10------>13 are...

...He brings many sons to glory
...sanctifies their salvation
...are one with the Father through the sanctification of His dying for them
...He is not ashamed to call them Brothers

What I am seeing when people on here post a verse, there is no exegesis employed at all. Just a verse quoted out of context, extrapolated from the context of that passage and shoved in our faces as proof that Jesus died for all people indiscriminately.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Here is your problem my friend...you are taking one verse from the whole and extrapolating it. I can do that and come up with some of the worst doctrine(s) out there. But you can not take a verse and extrapolate it and consider that to be solid hermeneutics.

1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. (1 Timothy 2)

Here is what gets lost in the shuffle. It says He(Jesus) is the Mediator between God and man. He is now our High Priest, as the OT high priest typified Jesus. Now, who did the OT high priest intercede for, mediate for? All men indiscriminately or the Jews? It was for the nation of Israel. He never interceded for the Hivites, Jebusites, Hittites, Assyrians, Egyptians, Syrians, Philistines, &c. When Aaron laid his hands upon the scapegoat in Leviticus 16, whose sins were placed upon it and then led into the wilderness? The Jews. Those other nations did not have a sacrificial system that would allow for their sins to be atoned for. Only Israel had this. Jesus does not intercede for all men, my friend, but only for His people, as the OT high priest only interceded for the people of God.

1 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.
3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.(2 Peter 3)


Look at all the personal pronouns and nouns. This was addressed to believers my friend, not unbelievers. He is not willing any of them, these believers to perish. In fact, He was so unwilling for them to perish, He sent them a redeemer who died for them.

And Jesus proves this...

12 “What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish."(Matthew 18)

In John 10 Jesus says He is giving His life for the sheep(verses 10 and 15). He said He was not praying for the world, but those the Father gave Him(John 17:9). Then is Ephesians 5:25 it says that He gave His life for the church. Nowhere does these verses mean all men. Nowhere.
If you think that I only take one verse to come to a conclusion on any given biblical concept, you need to lay off the juice!!