(poll) Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

[GraceAndTruth]

George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists”

"If any man ascribes anything of salvation, even the very least thing, to the free will of man, he knows nothing of grace, and he has not learned Jesus Christ rightly." Martin Luther

I am not a Calvinist by choice, but because I cannot help it.
I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are truly and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus. C H.Spurgeon

 

[Deade]

Hopefully someone with GODly discernment In the committee will be aware when someone Percieved In need of financial help really needs It.

You know this might seem right to you, but having been in mission work for many years I have a different take. I have meditated about this and come to the conclusion that people that come to you in need could very well take advantage of us if we don't check their story. But wait! That is how the government works. We are God's people and we should be more trusting. If someone take unfair advantage of our resources, it is God they defraud. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. When someone needs help, they need it right then, and we needn't bother with verification.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists”

"If any man ascribes anything of salvation, even the very least thing, to the free will of man, he knows nothing of grace, and he has not learned Jesus Christ rightly." Martin Luther

I am not a Calvinist by choice, but because I cannot help it.
I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are truly and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus. C H.Spurgeon

John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave HIS only begotten Son, That whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

You know this might seem right to you, but having been in mission work for many years I have a different take. I have meditated about this and come to the conclusion that people that come to you in need could very well take advantage of us if we don't check their story. But wait! That is how the government works. We are God's people and we should be more trusting. If someone take unfair advantage of our resources, it is God they defraud. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. When someone needs help, they need it right then, and we needn't bother with verification.

I agree. I have given $20 to a FEW people on the street. One said he was a vet, so I gave him money and told him to get a taxi and go to the Vet hospital and they would take care of him. Another was a kid who said he was trying to get money to go back home. And so on. But the point was that I gave because I was "prompted" to give and the result is up to God. If you have it to give, give it. Put away those dollar bills and dig deeper.

My liberal friend said that her "charity" was paying taxes, the Gov doled it out.

***Two very old one dollar bills were laying side by side at the Mint, ready to be destroyed. One said, "well I've had a good life, traveled, had parties and bought lots of nice things". The other dollar bill said........"all I ever did was go to church, go to church, go to church"***

And that about sums up "charity" today.

John 3:16
King James Version(KJV)

16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave HIS only begotten Son, That whosoever believeth in HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16 is the most abused verse in the bible.
Bet you didn't go on to read John 3:18 or John 3:27??? Scripture picking is for babies.
CONTEXT determines meaning

And you have erred in the same way others have in bad interpretation, the "whosoever" marks this as a group of believers
When there is a group, that does not indicate an inclusion of EVERYONE in the whole world, but of those in that group.
And belief is not of ourselves it is a gift of God that no man can boast.

World = 2889= KOSMOS = orderly arrangement, decoration,
ONLY BY IMPLICATION (meaning, the text determines the exact meaning) the world in the wide OR narrow sense, includes the inhabitants.
Ie: the wide sense would be the entire world…….the narrow sense would be a certain group of people

“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you, If you were of the world, the world would love it’s own; but you are NOT of the world, but I CHOSE you OUT OF THE WORLD, therefore the world hates you.”
John 15: 18-19
The Intercession of Christ for His beloved at the Last Supper
“ I ask on their (the disciples) behalf, I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom THOU HAST GIVEN ME; for THEY ARE THINE”

 

[HeraldandSojourner]

God does both.

He chose us before the foundation of the world, so that we may believe in Christ.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

John 3:16 is the most abused verse in the bible.
Bet you didn't go on to read John 3:18 or John 3:27??? Scripture picking is for babies.
CONTEXT determines meaning

And you have erred in the same way others have in bad interpretation, the "whosoever" marks this as a group of believers
When there is a group, that does not indicate an inclusion of EVERYONE in the whole world, but of those in that group.
And belief is not of ourselves it is a gift of God that no man can boast.

World = 2889= KOSMOS = orderly arrangement, decoration,
ONLY BY IMPLICATION (meaning, the text determines the exact meaning) the world in the wide OR narrow sense, includes the inhabitants.
Ie: the wide sense would be the entire world…….the narrow sense would be a certain group of people

“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you, If you were of the world, the world would love it’s own; but you are NOT of the world, but I CHOSE you OUT OF THE WORLD, therefore the world hates you.”
John 15: 18-19
The Intercession of Christ for His beloved at the Last Supper
“ I ask on their (the disciples) behalf, I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom THOU HAST GIVEN ME; for THEY ARE THINE”

I don’t see how GOD could be righteous If people who are actually born naturally Into this world are not the “whosoever”.

How could I believe that and say that GOD who IS ALMIGHTY and loves righteousness and IS fair didn’t REALLY mean whosoever Is whosoever but whosoever Is a group.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

By The Way how do you repent If you don’t use the sense knowledge that GOD gave every natural born person?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I don’t see how GOD could be righteous If people who are actually born naturally Into this world are not the “whosoever”.

How could I believe that and say that GOD who IS ALMIGHTY and loves righteousness and IS fair didn’t REALLY mean whosoever Is whosoever but whosoever Is a group.

Look up the word reprobate and be enlightened.
God, the Potter, made some pots for glory and some pots for destruction.....and why did He do this? So that HIS glory might be made manifest to HIS ELECT.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

By The Way how do you repent If you don’t use the sense knowledge that GOD gave every natural born person?

Repentance comes by the Holy Spirit with conviction of sin. So what is sin? Sin isn't of the flesh, though it can be manifested in the flesh, it is the natural state of the natural man who is born with the stain of sin. Sin begins in the mind and then finds an outlet. Like wondering about God's righteousness and then using the devil's ruse to ask........did God REALLY say?

Trolling is a sin

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Look up the word reprobate and be enlightened.
God, the Potter, made some pots for glory and some pots for destruction.....and why did He do this? So that HIS glory might be made manifest to HIS ELECT.

Speak plainly and prove what you say you know with scripture and Interpretation of scripture so that ALL who read our post can be edified.

 

[Sketch]

Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

I have gotten a debate in person and online recently about this.
Do you believe we are predestined to be saved, as if God chose us before our existence and planned to save us or do you believe it's up to us alone to choose him or do you believe he tries to choose us but leaves the final answer up to us?

With whatever you believe, there are these common sayings I get in response when they debate.

if you believe he chooses in us and we can't avoid him and being saved because we are predestined, then isn't us choosing him forced on us and not wanting him by free will and doesn't that seem like he didn't really die for everyone because he isn't choosing the rest of the world to save them?

if you believe it is entirely up to us, then does that mean in our sinful nature we have good desires to do what is right without God in us to give us those desires before salvation?

Or if you believe he makes us want to as if he gives us the strength and desires to want to be saved, but we can still choose to live in sin and not be saved? That it is up to us in the end?

I have not given my answer here on this poll, but I'd like to hear yours and I may share mine.

Interesting that 60 percent of the votes are for: He chooses us by predestination

So, why isn't everyone saved if we have no choice in the matter?
Are those chosen few more valuable somehow? How does God choose?
Does this nullify, "Whosoever will may come." statement?

As a young adult I struggled with the "Why me?" and the "Why us?" questions.
It seemed to be a strong refutation to my faith. Is this right simply because I believe it?

In the end it has to be both. The Bible supports both predestination and free will.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Interesting that 60 percent of the votes are for: He chooses us by predestination

So, why isn't everyone saved if we have no choice in the matter?
Are those chosen few more valuable somehow? How does God choose?
Does this nullify, "Whosoever will may come." statement?

As a young adult I struggled with the "Why me?" and the "Why us?" questions.
It seemed to be a strong refutation to my faith. Is this right simply because I believe it?

In the end it has to be both. The Bible supports both predestination and free will.

Rememember some of us did not vote. So that % may be skewed some

 

[Sketch]

Trolling is a sin

But didn't Jesus call his disciples to be fishers of men?
Why would trolling be a sin?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By The Way how do you repent If you don’t use the sense knowledge that GOD gave every natural born person?

It would take more than that, That is just a start. God has to do the rest..whjich he does wiht his word, the people in his body, and whatever he needs, God is a smart God, He KNOWS what it will take for you personally to believe (even if you will believe at all no matter what he does)

 

[Sketch]

Rememember some of us did not vote. So that % may be skewed some

Right.
But if you don't vote, you shouldn't complain. lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Right.
But if you don't vote, you shouldn't complain. lol

I am not complaining..I was just stating a fact.

I did not vote because I saw no answer I completely agreed with.

 

[Hevosmies]

Interesting that 60 percent of the votes are for: He chooses us by predestination

So, why isn't everyone saved if we have no choice in the matter?
Are those chosen few more valuable somehow? How does God choose?
Does this nullify, "Whosoever will may come." statement?

As a young adult I struggled with the "Why me?" and the "Why us?" questions.
It seemed to be a strong refutation to my faith. Is this right simply because I believe it?

In the end it has to be both. The Bible supports both predestination and free will.

How did you solve this conundrum? I also struggle with this too.

I see arminianism and calvinism both can easily be proven from the scriptures. I see open theism and hard-determinism can both be clearly proven from the scriptures.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How did you solve this conundrum? I also struggle with this too.

I see arminianism and calvinism both can easily be proven from the scriptures. I see open theism and hard-determinism can both be clearly proven from the scriptures.

Yet they can not all be right so what are we to do?

 

[Hevosmies]

Yet they can not all be right so what are we to do?

You tell me

I believe this is why all the debates exist. Because you can proof-text almost anything out of the bible.

For example: If I want to prove the faith-alone no repentance salvation, I can just point to "righteous Lot" and say, "See, Lot had no positive works we know of, and he was justified by faith in the OT" bam.
Then I can also prove repentance and works FOLLOWING salvation as proof of genuine saving faith by quoting the verse where Paul says "do works meet for repentance" in the book of Acts..

This is why debates exist. I really pray God would show me one day how to reconcile all this

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You tell me

Lol
Well the first thing I think one must do is realise that since every doctrine can at least have some form of biblical truth , we should not only question all doctrines, But the very churches we belong to. And not be so closed minded thinking our way (or our churches way) is the only way.

Ie. Not be followers of men (arminian, Calvin, Paul, Peter, The pope. Our pastor etc etc) But look deep in open sincerity tryign to find truth, ie be teachable!