OK, lots of pages between start to now but I'm trying to figure out the position you hold here as you address the Decon person.
Do you believe works save us? Or not?
Thanks for helping me out.
Decon and I have a fundamental disagreement on the Gospel of Christ. And this has been an ongoing disagreement. So we don't hold back much in our back and forth.
As far as your Question, I believe Jesus, the Word of God which became Flesh, cleanses us of our sins. As the Word of God, He promised that "After those days" He would forgive our sins Himself, and He would administer God's Laws on our hearts Himself. (Jer. 31: 31-34)
Prior to "those days" there was in place a Priesthood which consisted of Levites, who performed ceremonial, sacrificial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins (defined as transgressing God's Laws), and also they were anointed to administer God's Word.
Ex. 28:
41 And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them,
that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.
These "Works of the Law" for the cleansing of sins were to be in force "Until the Seed should come" as Paul stats in Gal. 3. He was having trouble with a Mainstream Religion of his time which didn't believe the promise of the change in the Priesthood spoken by Word of God in Jeremiah and other places, and refused to accept that Jesus was this Word of God. So even though He had fulfilled many of the prophesies about Himself in the Law and Prophets, they did not believe He had become their High Priest, so they continued to further (their version) of the "works of the Law" given by God to Moses for the justification of sins.
Paul had quite a time with them trying to force their version of these "obsolete" Works of the Law on the gentiles and they were "bewitching" the Galatians as well.
As Paul teaches:
Rom. 3:
26 To declare,
I say,
at this time (After those days)
his righteousness ( not "works of the old Priesthood) that he might be just,
and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where
is boasting then? It is excluded.
By what law?
of works? (goats blood sprinkled on the alter)
Nay:
but by the law of faith.
Ex. 20:
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me,
and keep my commandments.
28 Therefore we conclude that a
man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Given by God to Moses for the cleansing of sins until the Seed should come)
Decon believes the New Covenant wasn't the change in the Priesthood as the Law and Prophets teach, which is confirmed by Heb 7. He believes a religion which teaches this change in the priesthood also included the entire Law and Prophets. Even though Jesus Himself said He didn't come to destroy them, but to preserve them. This teaching is widely accepted in the religions of the land, but is not supported by all the Word's of the Christ.
Heb. 7:
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (
for under it the people received the law,) what further need
was there that
another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a
change also of the law.
The old priesthood was given Specifically to Levites, Jesus was from the Tribe of Judah, so the "Law" was changed so He could become our High Priest, even though He wasn't a Levite.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth
to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For
it is evident that
our Lord sprang out of Juda;
of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
The message of the Christ, the Word of God which became flesh from the very beginning to the end has been to "Repent, turn to God, and bring "works" worthy of repentance. This is what Paul taught both Jew and Gentile.
Acts 26:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and
then to the Gentiles, that
they should repent and
turn to God, and
do works meet for repentance.
So I believe the Christ, which said: "Before Abraham was, I am" has been consistent throughout His Ministry and has kept His Promises He gave from the beginning. And that is to show Mercy to anyone who would listen to Him and "DO" as He says.
But this teaching was not believed in the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, nor is it believed on in many religions which call Him Lord, Lord today.
Sorry for the long post, but I needed to answer your question clearly. Let me know if you have any questions.
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