Things to Consider Before Attempting to Correct the King James Bible
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"Unicorn" causes modern readers much consternation, but the term is related to the Latin name for a certain large beast "Rhinoceros unicornis" - the Indian rhino, which may have existed in the Middle East in former times, and which certainly fits the context in several verses where "unicorn" appears.
"Cockatrice" is a mystery still though.
"Cockatrice" is a mystery still though.
Haha am Chinese and I read the KJV. Only because I cant read chinese.
Yea. One day I will learn but if anyone has an audio Bible in cantonese I am all ears.
Why KJV well..the other bible translations didn't make sense, not that I read ALL of them, but so far KJV hasnt let me down, so there you go. Just pray and ask God. I dont bother with the other translations. Doesnt mean you cant read them, but please dont knock the KJV. Also its FREE.
Yea. One day I will learn but if anyone has an audio Bible in cantonese I am all ears.
Why KJV well..the other bible translations didn't make sense, not that I read ALL of them, but so far KJV hasnt let me down, so there you go. Just pray and ask God. I dont bother with the other translations. Doesnt mean you cant read them, but please dont knock the KJV. Also its FREE.
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Here you go, again...will you seriously read it and see the truth? I doubt it.
Jehu was appointed by God to cut off the house of Ahab. Ahab was the king of Israel, not of Judah. But Ahaziah was related to Ahab by marriage because his father Jehoram who "walked in the way of the kings of Israel, like as did the house of Ahab: FOR HE HAD THE DAUGHTER OF AHAB TO WIFE: and he wrought that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD" 2 Chronicles 21:6.
Likewise in 2 Kings 8:16-18 we read of Jehoram, the father of Ahaziah, that "he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, AS DID THE HOUSE OF AHAB: FOR THE DAUGHTER OF AHAB WAS HIS WIFE: and he did evil in the sight of the LORD."
And of his son Ahaziah, just a few verses later in 2 Kings 8:26-27 we read: "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, THE DAUGHTER OF OMRI (father of Ahab) king of Israel. And HE WALKED IN THE WAY OF THE HOUSE OF AHAB, and did evil in the sight of the LORD, AS DID THE HOUSE OF AHAB; FOR HE WAS SON IN LAW OF THE HOUSE OF AHAB." Here we clearly see that Ahaziah is considered by God to be related to the house of Ahab and he walked in the way of the house of Ahab.
In 2 Chronicles 22:7 we read: "And the destruction of Ahaziah was of God by coming to Joram: for when he was come, he went out with Jehoram against JEHU the son of Nimshi, WHOM THE LORD HAD ANOINTED TO CUT OFF THE HOUSE OF AHAB."
To repeat, Ahaziah was son-in-law of the house of Ahab. 2 Kings 8:26 -27 "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign: and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, THE DAUGHTER (grand-daughter) OF OMRI KING OF ISRAEL. And HE WALKED IN THE WAY OF THE HOUSE OF AHAB, and did evil in the sight of the LORD, as did the house of Ahab: FOR HE WAS THE SON IN LAW OF THE HOUSE OF AHAB." Ahaziah is counted as a son-in-law to Ahab, even though it was his father who had married into the house of Ahab, and not Ahaziah himself.
Ahaziah was thus related by marriage to the house of Ahab through the marriage of his father with Athaliah the daughter of Ahab.
When it says in 2 Chronicles 22:2 that Ahaziah was 42 years old when he began to reign, this refers to his age as the last member of the reigning dynasty of the house of Ahab. Ahaziah could not have been 42 years old biologically, because his father was only 40 years old when Ahaziah became king (See 2 Chron. 21:20 - 2 Chron. 22:2 ). "Jehoram (the father of Ahaziah) was thirty and two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem eight years, and departed without being desired...and the inhabitants of Jerusalem made Ahaziah his youngest son king in his stead...Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign". For a man to become a father at the age of 18 is very likely, but for a son to be born two years earlier than his father is not.
The house of Ahab began, of course, with Ahab who reigned for 22 years and his son Jehoram was in his twelfth and final year at the time Ahaziah began to reign. 22 + 12 = 34. This would be the house of Ahab on the king's of Israel side.
When we look at the house of Ahab on the king's of Judah side and we come up with an additional 8 years reign as king on the part of Jehoram, Ahaziah's father. Jehoram "walked in the way of the kings of Israel, LIKE AS DID THE HOUSE OF AHAB: FOR HE HAD THE DAUGHTER OF AHAB TO WIFE: and he wrought that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD" 2 Chronicles 21:6.
22 + 12 + 8 = 42. This is the age of Ahaziah as a the youngest and most recent member of the extended reign of the house of Ahab over both Israel and Judah.
Ahab's other son, Ahaziah, who reigned for 2 years before Jehoram, does not come into consideration because his two year reign was overlapped on both sides by that of his father and of his brother. So the actual number of years the house of Ahab is in power is not affected or changed by his two year reign - his first year as co-regent to his father Ahab, and the second by his brother Jehoram, kings of Israel. The actual number of years the house of Ahab is in power is 42 years when we finally get to Ahaziah king of Judah, who himself was son in law of the house of Ahab and walked in the evil ways of the house of Ahab.
The two years of Ahaziah, Ahab's son, are overlapped on one side by Ahab his father and on the other by Jehoram his brother. 1 Kings 22:41 tells us that "Jehosaphat the son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of Ahab king of Israel." Ahab reigned for 22 years, so at the time Jehosaphat begins to reign, Ahab has 18 more years to go as king of Israel.
When Ahab goes out to battle the Syrians, his son Ahaziah is made co-regent and remains in Samaria while his father goes to battle. 1 Kings 22:51 tells us "Ahaziah the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the seventeenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and reigned two years over Israel."
The 17th year of Jehoshaphat would overlap Ahab's 22nd and final year. Ahab dies in battle. So Ahaziah, his son, continues to reign in Samaria. However this same Ahaziah soon falls down through a lattice in his upper chamber and was sick with a disease that finally killed him.(See 2 Kings 1:2)
2 Kings 3:1 tells us: "Now Jehoram the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and reigned twelve years." Notice that Ahaziah (Ahab's son) began to reign in Jehoshaphat's 17th year, reigns 2 years, and Jehoram begins to reign in Jehoshaphat's 18th year.
We see that Ahaziah was co-regent to his father Ahab for one year and Jehoram, his brother, was co-regent to Ahaziah for one year during his sickness. Looked at in this way, his two year reign is overlapped by both that of his father and of his brother. We are left then with the 22 years of Ahab, 12 years of Jehoram of Ahab and the additional 8 years of Jehoram of Judah which again totals 42 years of reign till the time of Ahaziah of Judah.
Ahab's reign of 22 years does not overlap the 12 years of his son Jehoram. Likewise the one year of Ahaziah, king of Judah, does not overlap the reign of his father Jehoram. 2 Chronicles tells us that the band of men that came with the Arabians had slain all the eldest sons, so the only one left to sit on the throne was the youngest son, Ahaziah.
The house of Ahab was then cut off by Jehu when he killed both Jehoram of Israel and Ahaziah of Judah. Athaliah, that wicked queen, destroyed the rest of the seed royal of the house of Judah, except the baby Joash who was stolen away and hid for six years while Athaliah reigned. The continuous reign of successive "sons" (including son in law) of the house of Ahab ceased with the death of Jehoram and Ahaziah.
The central issue in all this is simply - How long was the combined reign of "the house of Ahab" over the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah? The answer is 42 years when Ahaziah began to reign. There is no error in either the Hebrew texts nor in all the Reformation bibles and many others even in modern times that tell us that Ahaziah was 42 years old when he began to reign.
Ahaziah was 42 years old as the final member of the house of Ahab, but only 22 years old physically as a son of Jehoram.
Jehu was appointed by God to cut off the house of Ahab. Ahab was the king of Israel, not of Judah. But Ahaziah was related to Ahab by marriage because his father Jehoram who "walked in the way of the kings of Israel, like as did the house of Ahab: FOR HE HAD THE DAUGHTER OF AHAB TO WIFE: and he wrought that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD" 2 Chronicles 21:6.
Likewise in 2 Kings 8:16-18 we read of Jehoram, the father of Ahaziah, that "he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, AS DID THE HOUSE OF AHAB: FOR THE DAUGHTER OF AHAB WAS HIS WIFE: and he did evil in the sight of the LORD."
And of his son Ahaziah, just a few verses later in 2 Kings 8:26-27 we read: "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, THE DAUGHTER OF OMRI (father of Ahab) king of Israel. And HE WALKED IN THE WAY OF THE HOUSE OF AHAB, and did evil in the sight of the LORD, AS DID THE HOUSE OF AHAB; FOR HE WAS SON IN LAW OF THE HOUSE OF AHAB." Here we clearly see that Ahaziah is considered by God to be related to the house of Ahab and he walked in the way of the house of Ahab.
In 2 Chronicles 22:7 we read: "And the destruction of Ahaziah was of God by coming to Joram: for when he was come, he went out with Jehoram against JEHU the son of Nimshi, WHOM THE LORD HAD ANOINTED TO CUT OFF THE HOUSE OF AHAB."
To repeat, Ahaziah was son-in-law of the house of Ahab. 2 Kings 8:26 -27 "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign: and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, THE DAUGHTER (grand-daughter) OF OMRI KING OF ISRAEL. And HE WALKED IN THE WAY OF THE HOUSE OF AHAB, and did evil in the sight of the LORD, as did the house of Ahab: FOR HE WAS THE SON IN LAW OF THE HOUSE OF AHAB." Ahaziah is counted as a son-in-law to Ahab, even though it was his father who had married into the house of Ahab, and not Ahaziah himself.
Ahaziah was thus related by marriage to the house of Ahab through the marriage of his father with Athaliah the daughter of Ahab.
When it says in 2 Chronicles 22:2 that Ahaziah was 42 years old when he began to reign, this refers to his age as the last member of the reigning dynasty of the house of Ahab. Ahaziah could not have been 42 years old biologically, because his father was only 40 years old when Ahaziah became king (See 2 Chron. 21:20 - 2 Chron. 22:2 ). "Jehoram (the father of Ahaziah) was thirty and two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem eight years, and departed without being desired...and the inhabitants of Jerusalem made Ahaziah his youngest son king in his stead...Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign". For a man to become a father at the age of 18 is very likely, but for a son to be born two years earlier than his father is not.
The house of Ahab began, of course, with Ahab who reigned for 22 years and his son Jehoram was in his twelfth and final year at the time Ahaziah began to reign. 22 + 12 = 34. This would be the house of Ahab on the king's of Israel side.
When we look at the house of Ahab on the king's of Judah side and we come up with an additional 8 years reign as king on the part of Jehoram, Ahaziah's father. Jehoram "walked in the way of the kings of Israel, LIKE AS DID THE HOUSE OF AHAB: FOR HE HAD THE DAUGHTER OF AHAB TO WIFE: and he wrought that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD" 2 Chronicles 21:6.
22 + 12 + 8 = 42. This is the age of Ahaziah as a the youngest and most recent member of the extended reign of the house of Ahab over both Israel and Judah.
Ahab's other son, Ahaziah, who reigned for 2 years before Jehoram, does not come into consideration because his two year reign was overlapped on both sides by that of his father and of his brother. So the actual number of years the house of Ahab is in power is not affected or changed by his two year reign - his first year as co-regent to his father Ahab, and the second by his brother Jehoram, kings of Israel. The actual number of years the house of Ahab is in power is 42 years when we finally get to Ahaziah king of Judah, who himself was son in law of the house of Ahab and walked in the evil ways of the house of Ahab.
The two years of Ahaziah, Ahab's son, are overlapped on one side by Ahab his father and on the other by Jehoram his brother. 1 Kings 22:41 tells us that "Jehosaphat the son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of Ahab king of Israel." Ahab reigned for 22 years, so at the time Jehosaphat begins to reign, Ahab has 18 more years to go as king of Israel.
When Ahab goes out to battle the Syrians, his son Ahaziah is made co-regent and remains in Samaria while his father goes to battle. 1 Kings 22:51 tells us "Ahaziah the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the seventeenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and reigned two years over Israel."
The 17th year of Jehoshaphat would overlap Ahab's 22nd and final year. Ahab dies in battle. So Ahaziah, his son, continues to reign in Samaria. However this same Ahaziah soon falls down through a lattice in his upper chamber and was sick with a disease that finally killed him.(See 2 Kings 1:2)
2 Kings 3:1 tells us: "Now Jehoram the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and reigned twelve years." Notice that Ahaziah (Ahab's son) began to reign in Jehoshaphat's 17th year, reigns 2 years, and Jehoram begins to reign in Jehoshaphat's 18th year.
We see that Ahaziah was co-regent to his father Ahab for one year and Jehoram, his brother, was co-regent to Ahaziah for one year during his sickness. Looked at in this way, his two year reign is overlapped by both that of his father and of his brother. We are left then with the 22 years of Ahab, 12 years of Jehoram of Ahab and the additional 8 years of Jehoram of Judah which again totals 42 years of reign till the time of Ahaziah of Judah.
Ahab's reign of 22 years does not overlap the 12 years of his son Jehoram. Likewise the one year of Ahaziah, king of Judah, does not overlap the reign of his father Jehoram. 2 Chronicles tells us that the band of men that came with the Arabians had slain all the eldest sons, so the only one left to sit on the throne was the youngest son, Ahaziah.
The house of Ahab was then cut off by Jehu when he killed both Jehoram of Israel and Ahaziah of Judah. Athaliah, that wicked queen, destroyed the rest of the seed royal of the house of Judah, except the baby Joash who was stolen away and hid for six years while Athaliah reigned. The continuous reign of successive "sons" (including son in law) of the house of Ahab ceased with the death of Jehoram and Ahaziah.
The central issue in all this is simply - How long was the combined reign of "the house of Ahab" over the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah? The answer is 42 years when Ahaziah began to reign. There is no error in either the Hebrew texts nor in all the Reformation bibles and many others even in modern times that tell us that Ahaziah was 42 years old when he began to reign.
Ahaziah was 42 years old as the final member of the house of Ahab, but only 22 years old physically as a son of Jehoram.
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I've read your explanation and still consider it hogwash.
Either he was 22 years old, or he was 42 years old. He can't be both. Nowhere else in Scripture is such a convoluted reasoning used. The phrase has a specific meaning in English: years since birth. It has the same meaning in all Scripture. Your convolutions are inadequate.
It's an error. The KJV contradicts itself and is therefore imperfect. In your terminology, it's a lie.
Either he was 22 years old, or he was 42 years old. He can't be both. Nowhere else in Scripture is such a convoluted reasoning used. The phrase has a specific meaning in English: years since birth. It has the same meaning in all Scripture. Your convolutions are inadequate.
It's an error. The KJV contradicts itself and is therefore imperfect. In your terminology, it's a lie.
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The other reason I consider your explanation inadequate is that you reject out of hand any similar explanations of things you find questionable in other translations. You are completely biased on these matters. When you demonstrate the integrity to consider both sides of the discussion equally, then your convoluted hogwash might have some meaning to me.
It's an error in the KJV; your convolutions notwithstanding.
It's an error in the KJV; your convolutions notwithstanding.
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If you used this same standard of judgment when you consider other translations, it would be fine. You don't; instead you call similar apparent contradictions in other translations "lies".
You have a double standard. That is a lack of integrity. It doesn't reflect well on you personally, and makes your KJV-only position look ridiculous.
You have a double standard. That is a lack of integrity. It doesn't reflect well on you personally, and makes your KJV-only position look ridiculous.
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In all the myriads of threads concerning "which version/s er translation/s are TRULY the INSPIRED, IRREFUTABLE" Words of God?
It has become quite apparent, how you see the KJV! As for me? I have NO issue with you concerning the KJV!
What ALSO seems quite apparent in your defending "Using EVERY MEANS POSSIBLE?" In this defense? Is you have, and you are not alone, are worshipping the INK!
The "turth, the whole truth and nothing BUT, the TRUTH?" Is NOT "The INK!"
Knowing the Bible, (KJV, in this case) "INSIDE OUT, AND SIDEWAYS DOWN", nowise gets you, or anyone else.....here, I think the group "Casting Crowns", said it best: "They know "chapter and verse", but they don't KNOW YOU!".....In most cases, this refers to Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and the Great Commission. In the cases involving already believing Christians? Which, in these eyes, also includes you John146. It's not Jesus Christ of Nazareth. It's the Father, in and by being confessed by Christ! As well, as the Father, IN, and BY, His Holy Spirit!
What is seen, is you are EXALTING ink, AS God! And, in so doing causing your spirit to STRIVE with God's Spirit, which is "THE WHY", ink HAD to be put to paper, IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Doncha, can'tcha see that man?
Endoscopy,
No, I didn’t ignore the “fact” that there are Archaic words in the KJV and biblical words such as Thee and Thou etc. but it is you that ignores the FACT to “study” and understand how to treat/deal with ‘Archaic “words. Do we really need to alter the text? God gave us in His words to follow on how to treat them. A case in point where “seer” is said to be “aged-old” word whereas “prophet” is a new word, nevertheless God retain the word “seer” and define it rather than change it. The point is we do not intend to change it, we need to study it! Perhaps, your Bible does not encourage you “study” as does my Bible.
The premonition that the KJV has the only age-old “Archaic” words is FALSE. You seem to be unaware to the FACT that even the NIV uses such! You didn’t even come up a real deal as to what is the language of the 17th Ce. to a language of today. As a proof of the NIV uses such Archaic words for you to consider. The NIV uses porphyry, offal, Nubians, maxiums, goiim, glistcning, aghast, cooing, cors, horde, ibex, pinions, rawboned etc. Oh well, even the word endoscopy seems not in everyday common language and was first used around 1860. That is too old for me.
Now to satisfy your thirst on the Archaic con job, I’ll try to dissect the word “satyr’ and tell your common errors in dealing with this subject.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God…
No, I didn’t ignore the “fact” that there are Archaic words in the KJV and biblical words such as Thee and Thou etc. but it is you that ignores the FACT to “study” and understand how to treat/deal with ‘Archaic “words. Do we really need to alter the text? God gave us in His words to follow on how to treat them. A case in point where “seer” is said to be “aged-old” word whereas “prophet” is a new word, nevertheless God retain the word “seer” and define it rather than change it. The point is we do not intend to change it, we need to study it! Perhaps, your Bible does not encourage you “study” as does my Bible.
The premonition that the KJV has the only age-old “Archaic” words is FALSE. You seem to be unaware to the FACT that even the NIV uses such! You didn’t even come up a real deal as to what is the language of the 17th Ce. to a language of today. As a proof of the NIV uses such Archaic words for you to consider. The NIV uses porphyry, offal, Nubians, maxiums, goiim, glistcning, aghast, cooing, cors, horde, ibex, pinions, rawboned etc. Oh well, even the word endoscopy seems not in everyday common language and was first used around 1860. That is too old for me.
Now to satisfy your thirst on the Archaic con job, I’ll try to dissect the word “satyr’ and tell your common errors in dealing with this subject.
- Satyr as used in the KJV is not alone of using the word. Singling out the KJV is too unfair. The Geneva Bible 1587, The Bill Bible 1621, Calvin's Latin translation, the English Revised Version 1885, Webster's 1833 translation, The Longman Version 1841 "the SATYR shall cry to his fellow", the Brenton Translation 1851, the The Boothroyd Bible 1853, the Calvin Bible 1855, The Jewish Family Bible 1864, the Noyes Translation 1869, The Revised English Bible 1877, The Sharpe Bible 1883, The Modern Readers Bible 1907, The Improved Bible 1913, the Revised Standard Version 1946-1971, the Jewish Publication Society 1917 translation - "and SATYRS shall dance there.", the Hebrew Publishing Company of New York version of 1936, Moffatt's New Translation 1922, An American Translation by Smith and Goodspeed 1931, the Modern Reader's Bible by Richard Moulton 1907, the Jerusalem Bible 1968, the New American Bible 1970, the New Jerusalem Bible 1985, Lamsa's 1936 translation of the Syriac Peshitta - "and SATYRS shall dance there.", the Greek Septuagint, The New Jewish Version 1985, The Word of Yah 1993, the KJV 21st Century version 1994 - "and SATYRS shall dance there.", the Third Millennium Bible of 1998, The Word of Yah 1993, God's First Truth 1999, The Apostolic Polyglot Bible 2003 - "there shall rest SATYRS", The Judaica Press Complete Tanach 2004 - "and SATYRS shall dance there.", the Apostolic Bible 2006, Bond Slave Version 2009, Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010, the Jubilee Bible 2010, The New American Bible 2010, the Interlinear Hebrew-Greek Scriptures 2012 (Mebust) - "and shall meet with demons SATYRS" (Isa. 34:14), The New Brenton Translation 2012 - "there SATYRS shall rest", the Katapi New Standard Bible 2010 - "and SATYRS shall dance there", the Biblos Interlinear Bible 2013 - "and SATRYS shall dance there". All of these and even the NASB Has it. Excerpts from Will Kinney
- You just don’t want to study them. That’s a kind of laziness.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God…
Just a question? i was in CC chat the other day we were talking about versions and the purity of diff. ones...One fellow told me he likes and reads the Hexapla...do you folks know if this is a good one to read ? it has 6 versions in it like older writings...love in Christ Sherril...
Yiks now i dont know what to think, then what is the very best version, i enjoy the KJV yet if im missing something like a version that is even more true to Gods heart..i think it would be nice to check it out..ty love in Christ Sherril..
The word of God that's the most true to God's heart is going to be just like his son The Word of God - a stumbling stone and rock of offence.
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Keep this in mind Sherril.
The word of God that's the most true to God's heart is going to be just like his son The Word of God - a stumbling stone and rock of offence.
The word of God that's the most true to God's heart is going to be just like his son The Word of God - a stumbling stone and rock of offence.
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