And if correct Paul would not have spoken of it in future tense in 2Thessalonians 2:4 knowing it to be at the cross(past tense)
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And if correct Paul would not have spoken of it in future tense in 2Thessalonians 2:4 knowing it to be at the cross(past tense)
Common sense that God gave a goose without one scripture can deduce that the Holy Place Was NOT THE CROSS....
The abomination that makes desolate STANDING WHERE IT OUGHT NOT
Standing is NOT HANGING ON A CROSS
THE CROSS represented being CURSED not a HOLY PLACE...
I do not know why I even engage you.....!
You do realize that we are the temple of God don't you? How is some antichrist character going to do that?
I enjoy engaging you, I've learned a lot from it. But I get it you don't like me nor my views and I'm fine with that and you can stop engaging me any time you want.
But if you want to continue I would like to know if you think the blood being sprinkled in the Holy Place foreshadowed anything? I mean is that something that should have a fulfillment.
I'd like to hear your view on the temple of God too, is it us or is it a building? It just seems to me that shadows were done when the real came about.
More SBC understanding....You do understand that Paul uses the plural and then singular right.....You All are A <- and he is speaking of a collective body when they come together as LIVING STONES <-Peter......man you have a lot to re-learn in order to properly deduce the word of God!
Look.....I am sure you are a nice enough guy...what bothers me the most
You act all interested and open to truth and then come back with flippant remarks and attitude while ignoring and shooting down everyone
You act like you are the only one that studies...and or has the truth....man I have spent 33 straight years studying very diligently....I know that does not equal correct and or always right but you are very demeaning in how you engage many people!
I think scripture disagrees with your assessment.
1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
1Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
This is the folks you claim are God's chosen people. And yes I agree Christ died for us.
I'm sorry for coming across that way, I don't mean to be that way. I'll work on that!
The only reason I'm here is to learn. I've learned more on this forum through debate, it's unbelievable. I'm open to truth but when someone says something that I know is wrong then I'm going to say something about it. You're the same way, you don't back down on something you believe strongly in.
I don't know why we cant all talk and exchange ideas without getting all upset over piddly stuff. Going forward if I seem like a know it all or jerk then call me on it. I really do enjoy conversing with you.
A. I do not see the words that they hated anyone
b. I do know they were jealous and convicted
c. I also know that JESUS said they KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO
d. I also know they were BLIND to the truth and that blindness was caused in part by GOD so salvation could come to the Gentiles
I really wish you would look into who God's chosen people really are, you're on the wrong side on this one D. No offence intended, but the scripture is crystal clear on who God's chosen one's are and it's not flesh descendants of anyone. Granted, during the Old Testament times most of God's chosen people came from the flesh descendants of Israel but they weren't chosen by God based on race. The opposite is true right now, most of God's chosen ones come out of the gentiles with a few Jews being saved too.
I'm out for tonight. Again I apologize for coming across the way I did and hope to pick this up later.
As far as A in your list goes, you don't see the words hate but they hated to the point they wanted him dead.
The shadows were of the things that existed in heaven prior to the cross,(Hebrews 8:5,Colossians 2:17,Hebrews 9:23) Moses was warned to https://biblehub.com/hebrews/8-5.htm "make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain" ,,Jesus was in heaven,came to earth,ascended to heaven, after the resurrection/rapture the New Jerusalem(and the temple in it) will descend down into the earth.
Oops my memory was inaccurate about the book. It is in Daniel. I am correct about it not being the cross. Here is Jesus on the subject!! Does this description sound like what happened at the Crucifixion?
Matthew 24 NIV
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
Here in Exodus is God choosing Israelites as the chosen people. Jews are the tribe of Judah, Benjamin and a portion of Levites as priests. As Christians there is the concept we are grafted into being chosen as well.
Exodus 19 New International Version (NIV)
At Mount Sinai
19 On the first day of the third month after the Israelites left Egypt—on that very day—they came to the Desert of Sinai. 2 After they set out from Rephidim, they entered the Desert of Sinai, and Israel camped there in the desert in front of the mountain.
3 Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: 4 ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
7 So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the Lord had commanded him to speak. 8 The people all responded together, “We will do everything the Lord has said.” So Moses brought their answer back to the Lord.
9 The Lord said to Moses, “I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear me speaking with you and will always put their trust in you.” Then Moses told the Lord what the people had said.
Interesting theory and perspective. We are all just trying to do our best to make sense of the Scriptures.
You are saying the GWT is a place/event that happened when Christ rose from the dead and you also think it will happen again at the end of the world. Do you think people are being judged as they die and go there?
The problem I have with your interpretation is that it is very subjective and the Scripture doesn't confirm it. For the sake of argument let me agree with you for a moment that everything you say is correct. If what you say is true...
You still have the timeline problem. The GWT happens after the "first resurrection" and 1,000 years of the saints reigning with Christ according to Rev 20.
If the GWT doesn't happen until the cross then the first resurrection happened way back in the Old Testament somewhere and the saints were ruling and reigning with Christ for 1,000 years before He ever even went to the cross.
The timeline simply isn't possible and the GWT can't happen at the cross. I think it's best to think of the GWT as an event at the end of human history which a natural reading of Revelation would seem to indicate.
Another thing I wanted to mention was that you believe that the GWT judgment happened at the cross because of Daniel 12: 2.
You believe Daniel 12: 2 is the first resurrection because of its reference to people rising from the grave. This is just subjective on your part though. Daniel 12: 2 does not tell us it is the first resurrection and it can be easily proven false.
It's all about the timeline I mentioned before. You have the first resurrection AND the GWT happening at the same time. At the cross.
Rev 20 tells us those events are separated by a 1,000 year reign of Christ with the saints. It simply isn't possible. I know you are doing your best to make sense of things but your theory simply won't work based on the timeline provided in Scripture in Rev 20.