Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
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Won't you all just give it a rest? ;)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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sigh

not addressing you at all dcon

I do not disagree with your POV

I made an error because I have the actual op on ignore

so I was called a liar and all the usual rhetoric pronounced by her on other members here
My bad.....peace....was hardly awake ;) Sunday morning here in Australia hajahaj
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
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Won't you all just give it a rest? ;)
:LOL:

In all seriousness, I think when a Christians worship of God is pursued constantly by the attack driven that we owe it to newborn's in Christ to stand and deliver the truth. Else they may be persuaded to believe the enemy of truth rather than the spirit that gave the covenant teachings life.
What would motivate anyone who is in Christ to assail a fellow Christian and their relationship with God?
Those that want others to believe them. Not the scripture. That want those they target to follow their skewed interpretation of scripture. Not the words of God.
Pay attention if you ever encounter someone that gets mad a Christian, the people of God, chooses to observe the Sabbath.
"... Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience. "

2424. Iésous
Strong's Concordance
Iésous: Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr.
Original Word: Ἰησοῦς, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Iésous
Phonetic Spelling: (ee-ay-sooce')
Definition: Jesus or Joshua, the name of the Messiah, also three other Isr
Usage: Jesus; the Greek form of Joshua; Jesus, son of Eliezer; Jesus, surnamed Justus.
HELPS Word-studies
2424 IēsoúsJesus, the transliteration of the Hebrew term, 3091 /Lṓt("Yehoshua"/Jehoshua, contracted to "Joshua") which means "Yahwehsaves" (or "Yahweh is salvation").

"Jesus Christ" is properly "Jesus the Christ." "Jesus" (2424 /Iēsoús) is His human name, as the incarnate, eternal Son of God (Mt 1:21,25, see also Lk 1:31) – the Christ, the divine Messiah (the second Person of the holy Trinity).

[Christ (His title) means "the Anointed One" (the eternal pre-incarnate, Logos, Jn 1:1-18).]
Hebrews 4
8.For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and laid open before the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Why do certain people mix law and grace and teach salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works?" :unsure:
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Because faith works by love, and charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith.

If you do not have works of love then faith does not apply in your life, for love is greater than faith.

It is not faith alone, it is love alone, and love can only be applied in your life if it is an action, and not saying it by word.

And we know some people lack love as they enjoy sin, and money and material things for their wants, and then think they are alright with God.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money, material): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil(for it neglects the poor and needy): which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Paul, James, and John, say the same thing, have works or you are not right with God, which is charity, love in action, and there would not be warnings in the Bible if people could not go astray if they do not abstain from sin.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

We live up to the law, and establish the law by obeying it.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

A Spirit led life can abstain from sins, for they show the ways of the Spirit, and not the flesh, but some people make excuses that they cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, when what seals the saints, and how they are led of the Spirit, is if they depart from iniquity.

A Spirit led life is not under the law because their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sins, so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If a person holds unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away, and if they say they cannot abstain from sin then they are holding unto sin.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

The Bible is telling us to withdraw ourselves from them as they believe God blesses them with their wants, and turn away from them as they enjoy sin and think they are alright with God, all the while they say they cannot abstain from sin although the Spirit is there to help them if they do not want sin, and hate sin.

Charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith, that is why we have to have works for it is love alone, not faith alone, and faith works by love, and we know many lack in love, which is why there is warnings in the Bible about it.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.

Their hypocrisy gives blame to the ministry as they want to enjoy the world as the world enjoys it, when the people say they are supposed to act like Christ, and care about the poor and needy.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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Matt never ignores them - he writes a 10 page essay every time he posts.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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Fixed it for you. :)
We are told that those who love the Lord are seeds of Abraham, or accepted into spiritual Israel. Were you one of Israel who heard Moses or one of those who are not included in Israel?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Because faith works by love, and charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith.

If you do not have works of love then faith does not apply in your life, for love is greater than faith.

It is not faith alone, it is love alone, and love can only be applied in your life if it is an action, and not saying it by word.

And we know some people lack love as they enjoy sin, and money and material things for their wants, and then think they are alright with God.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money, material): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil(for it neglects the poor and needy): which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Paul, James, and John, say the same thing, have works or you are not right with God, which is charity, love in action, and there would not be warnings in the Bible if people could not go astray if they do not abstain from sin.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

We live up to the law, and establish the law by obeying it.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

A Spirit led life can abstain from sins, for they show the ways of the Spirit, and not the flesh, but some people make excuses that they cannot abstain from sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, when what seals the saints, and how they are led of the Spirit, is if they depart from iniquity.

A Spirit led life is not under the law because their sins are forgiven, and they are abstaining from sins, so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If a person holds unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away, and if they say they cannot abstain from sin then they are holding unto sin.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

The Bible is telling us to withdraw ourselves from them as they believe God blesses them with their wants, and turn away from them as they enjoy sin and think they are alright with God, all the while they say they cannot abstain from sin although the Spirit is there to help them if they do not want sin, and hate sin.

Charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith, that is why we have to have works for it is love alone, not faith alone, and faith works by love, and we know many lack in love, which is why there is warnings in the Bible about it.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.

Their hypocrisy gives blame to the ministry as they want to enjoy the world as the world enjoys it, when the people say they are supposed to act like Christ, and care about the poor and needy.
So mailman, why don't you try separating them as the Lord does?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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Any time a member of the body of Christ finds themselves under attack for observing the Sabbath remember, God created the Sabbath for you. Those opposed are unaware. Pray for them. But do not let them move your heart from our Lord's leading you to rest on the day he made for you.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus was God. And his name would be Immanuel meaning, God with us. Jesus never stated the Sabbath day was no longer to be recognized nor honored. Jesus

The Christian has the mind of Christ. Any Christian who feels compelled to honor God and take advantage of that day God made for them , has every right to do so as it is in keeping with Jesus words.

Those who cast aspersions against that choice are the one's that should be scrutinized for their commitment against Jesus teachings. Jesus never once decreed Sunday was a day of worship. Sabbath was the day of worship. Jesus never revoked the importance of that day. For as we're told, they are laid naked before God's sight in making that effort.While God knows his own.

Sabbath Scriptures

Hebrews 4
4 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had [a]good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because [b]it was not united by faith with them that heard. 3 [c]For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said,
[d][e]As I sware in my wrath,
[f]They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, [g]And God rested on the seventh day from all his works; 5 and in this place again,
[h][i]They shall not enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some should enter there into, and they to whom [j]the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience, 7 he again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before),
[k]To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Harden not your hearts.
8 For if [l]Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall [m]after the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and laid open before the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Having then a great high priest, who hath passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.
Footnotes:
  1. Hebrews 4:2 Or, a gospel
  2. Hebrews 4:2 Many ancient authorities read they were.
  3. Hebrews 4:3 Some ancient authorities read We therefore.
  4. Hebrews 4:3 Ps. 95:11.
  5. Hebrews 4:3 Or, So
  6. Hebrews 4:3 Greek If they shall enter.
  7. Hebrews 4:4 Gen. 2:2.
  8. Hebrews 4:5 Ps. 95:11.
  9. Hebrews 4:5 Greek If they shall enter.
  10. Hebrews 4:6 Or, the gospel was
  11. Hebrews 4:7 Ps. 95:7f.
  12. Hebrews 4:8 Greek Jesus. Compare Acts 7:45.
  13. Hebrews 4:11 Or, into. Greek in.
American Standard Version (ASV)
Public Domain




Mark 2:27
And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."


(After Jesus' crucifixion and his being laid to rest in the tomb)
Luke 23:56
Then they returned and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
Most of the scoffers at us who attend church also go, but why they do I can't imagine. They don't listen to what the Lord tells them in his book that is a sort of instruction manual.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
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Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus was God.
That's exactly why He gave Christian's the Lord' Day.

Do you see the irony of what you are suggesting? The Lord was condemned for doing good works (healings) on the Sabbath days. And that is why He said that He is Lord of the Sabbath. It is the Lord who decides the proper significance of the Sabbath and also the proper significance of the Lord's Day (which is ignored by Sabbatarians).
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,606
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We are told that those who love the Lord are seeds of Abraham, or accepted into spiritual Israel. Were you one of Israel who heard Moses or one of those who are not included in Israel?
Fallacy: false dichotomy. :)
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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Bahahaha... that's the king of all twist-interpretations! May I suggest you check the following link so that you understand what a "false dichotomy" is?
http://www.philosophy-index.com/logic/fallacies/false-dilemma.php
Then explain what is false about that we are seeds of Abraham when we accept the Lord. Or that the Lord is speaking to all humans when He speaks, not to a certain group of humans.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:27-29

Exo_12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.


There are many scriptures making it clear that God is the same God for all and when God speaks it is to all He created who become His through faith.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,399
6,738
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Then explain what is false about that we are seeds of Abraham when we accept the Lord. Or that the Lord is speaking to all humans when He speaks, not to a certain group of humans.

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:27-29

Exo_12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

There are many scriptures making it clear that God is the same God for all and when God speaks it is to all He created who become His through faith.
there are also a lot of Scripture that points out all the instructions God gave to Israel were only for Israel.

" it shall be a statue forever for the children of Israel "

also, in the last verses of Leviticus 26, God states the covenant was with the " fathers of those who came out of Egypt ".

so, unless you can trace your ancestry to those who crossed the red sea, then the Mosaic Covenant was not for you.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,606
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Then explain what is false about ...
You really aren't getting this "false dichotomy" concept. Try again. I said nothing about the Scripture being false.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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there are also a lot of Scripture that points out all the instructions God gave to Israel were only for Israel.

" it shall be a statue forever for the children of Israel "

also, in the last verses of Leviticus 26, God states the covenant was with the " fathers of those who came out of Egypt ".

so, unless you can trace your ancestry to those who crossed the red sea, then the Mosaic Covenant was not for you.
These scriptures do no state that it cancels the scripture telling us who and who Israel is, ones I copied for you.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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You really aren't getting this "false dichotomy" concept. Try again. I said nothing about the Scripture being false.
Then will you please explain in every day English using words often used just what is false about saying that scripture is for everyone, none of it is directed to a select group of people exclusively.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,399
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These scriptures do no state that it cancels the scripture telling us who and who Israel is, ones I copied for you.
those Scriptures state what group of people were given what Covenant.

gentiles never had the Law , Paul directly said so in Romans 2.

but, since you push the lie that Jesus rose on the Sabbath, and we have to keep the Sabbath to be saved.

total lie, judeaizer propaganda.
the only thing required to be saved is belief and faith and trust in Jesus.