Speaking in tongues

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garee said:
Those are different time periods and different purposes. The Deuteronomy 13 is ongoing, 1 John 4 the final test . Just like the Deuteronomy 4 used to protect the integrity of a single word seeing change the meaning of a single word changes the authorship.

While the Revelation 22 the warning as the last commandment of God it is in respect to the whole or the perfect .(Do not add or subtract) Nothing missing. ...
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None of which answers my earlier question to you...

Where is this following, your earlier post, written in Scripture?
garee said:
Its how we try the spirits to see if they are of God not seen or men seen . If any man say I have seen the Lord, heard audible voice, or had a dream as a personal experience we are to believe not.He warned us before hand.
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Further, neither the passage in Deuteronomy nor the passage in 1 John has anything to do with "protecting the integrity of a single word"; that idea comes in the last chapter of Revelation, and likely refers only to the book of Revelation.
 
Spiritual Gifts

1Now concerninga spiritual gifts,b brothers,c I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.


4Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.
 
Dino246 said:
None of which answers my earlier question to you...

Where is this following, your earlier post, written in Scripture?


Further, neither the passage in Deuteronomy nor the passage in 1 John has anything to do with "protecting the integrity of a single word"; that idea comes in the last chapter of Revelation, and likely refers only to the book of Revelation.
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Deuteronomy 4 is used for protecting the integrity of a single word"

Note.... (purple in parenthesis) my offering

Ye shall not add unto the word (not plural, words) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,( not plural, them) that ye may keep the commandments( not singular commandment ) of the Lord your God which I command you.

Change the meaning of one word a person can change the authorship proving blasphemy or taking the name as the authority of God in vain . Deuteronomy 4 the plagiarism law

Deuteronomy 4 :1-4 King James Version (KJV) Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

And the other part of the plagiarism law one to cover the whole. The one in Revelation 22 as our safeguard, the book of the law the Bible. The perfect word. Why go above? How will you try the spirits? Can one use their own imagination to try the spirits?

Remember its a law of faith in respect to our unseen God. And not a theory of the imagination of the heart of a unbeliever. They have "no faith" as philosophies of men . Christianity is exempt from that kind of imagination of ones heart
 
garee said:
I am not against the unseen gifts of God that he works in us to both will and do His good pleasure. I rather lift up that kind of representative glory .

Signs confirm not lead a person to believe. The sign of tongues confirms those who do not believe prophecy .

The sign that followed after the apostles confirmed they were not harmed by the poison of false doctrine. According to the power of the gospel they would cast out demons (false doctrines) and they themselves were used as prophets like Peter who when he spoke the holy Spirit as a spiritual gift eternal God personally gave each one a understanding by which they could believe God called speaking new tongues . That way two people of different tongues could understand God through each other, as the spiritual gift to both coming from the mutual faith of God that did work in them both comforting them by the hearing of faith (the unseen law of faith )giving us ears to hear .

Three thousand heard the gospel in there ow language that day . It was the sign propmised against the t unbelieving (no faith ) Jews in Isaiah 28 we can find the foundation for tongues.
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Actually many came to see Jesus for what HE did and then were saved. So you are wrong. Sign do not save but they are used to lead one to Christ. the Big context to healing and signs & wonders you and many miss is the Motive to why Jesus did them in the first Place . He did them out of Love for people. Jesus said I have to come do what ? read it in Luke 4:18-19 “ The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.”

You may not see it, but signs & wonders are in these verses. Jesus did them, the apostles did them, and many other after did them and manyothers do them today because Jesus is still using men and women to do them through those who love .
 
garee said:
Deuteronomy 4 is used for protecting the integrity of a single word"

Note.... (purple in parenthesis) my offering

Ye shall not add unto the word (not plural, words) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,( not plural, them) that ye may keep the commandments( not singular commandment ) of the Lord your God which I command you.

Change the meaning of one word a person can change the authorship proving blasphemy or taking the name as the authority of God in vain . Deuteronomy 4 the plagiarism law

Deuteronomy 4 :1-4 King James Version (KJV) Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

And the other part of the plagiarism law one to cover the whole. The one in Revelation 22 as our safeguard, the book of the law the Bible. The perfect word. Why go above? How will you try the spirits? Can one use their own imagination to try the spirits?
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I was talking about Deuteronomy 13. However, Deuteronomy 4 also is not talking about protecting the integrity of a single word. It is talking about the message of the Lord as a whole.

By the way, it has nothing to do with "plagiarism", which is using the material belonging to another without giving due credit.

Now, perhaps you could address the question I asked (twice now); where is the following in Scripture?

"Its how we try the spirits to see if they are of God not seen or men seen . If any man say I have seen the Lord, heard audible voice, or had a dream as a personal experience we are to believe not.He warned us before hand."
 
Kavik said:
Nowhere in this passage does it even remotely imply or suggest that the speaker does not understand what he himself is saying.
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You can't be serious.
One of the main points is about addresasing the church in tongues without interpretation.
The Apostle exhorts tongues speakers to "pray that they may interpret what they say."
Why would they need someone to interpret if the speaker understood what they were saying?

1 Corinthians 14:13
For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
 
Kavik said:
For Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians, the passage can only be interpreted in such as way that the speaker also does not understand what he himself is saying. It's the only way the modern tongues experience can be '"proofed" in the passage. Remove that interpretation, replace "tongues" with the more modern "language" and the modern tongues phenomenon becomes somewhat difficult to postulate here.
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This is what happens when someone that doesn't speak in tongues tries to inform those who do, what tongues are, and how they should be used. They claim the Bible can't mean exactly what it says.
 
cv5 said:
There we go! Somebody...anybody post some audio/video of a different language unknown to the speaker uttered in miraculous fashion, I will pay the cost of a polygraph test and get it on the record that this incident is legit. We get a sample of half a dozen or a dozen and all the tests come out positive.....and we are good to go. Then comes the important part. TESTIFYING to these miracles to one and all. God has visisted us with signs and miracles.
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Maybe you should take a research methods class or just watch a few video before you do this? A polygraph test? That wouldn't prove much, or really anything.
 
Sketch said:
You can't be serious.
One of the main points is about addresasing the church in tongues without interpretation.
The Apostle exhorts tongues speakers to "pray that they may interpret what they say."
Why would they need someone to interpret if the speaker understood what they were saying?

1 Corinthians 14:13
For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
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And he also contrasts praying with his spirit (with tongues in context) with praying with the understanding.
 
Noose said:
1 Cor 14 is about love and not about self edification. Love is always about others rather than self.
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Often, generic broad sweeping statements like this aren't absolutely true. One of the most famous verses in the Bible mentions both other and self-- you shall ove your neighbor as you love yourself.

The details of I Corinthians 14, for example, are still true, in spite of your broad statement. The one who speaks in tongues if there is no interpreter is to keep silent in the church, but he is still told to 'speak to himself and to God.'

Paul said he who speaks in tongues edifies himself. "I would that ye all spake with tongues." That's what he said about a self-edifying activity. But concerning an activity that edifies others, he said, 'but rather that ye prophesied.'

If self-edification were not allowed, we should not be allowed to pray or read the Bible alone. Who does reading the Bible benefit? Does it benefit God?

There is also the fact that we can build ourselves up so that we can be strong to help others, which applies to various forms of prayer and reading the Bible.
 
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Kavik said:
Actually, I'm a linguist - I "speak in tongues" almost everyday when I'm playing around with the sounds of languages.
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What does it take to be a linguist? I have a bachelors. If you have a masters in linguistics, are you a linguist? If you have a PhD in linguistics are you a linguist? If you don't study linguistics at all, and you are a polyglott, are you a linguist?
 
Sketch said:
You are still hung up on the groaning part and ignoring the Spirit interceding part. So I was right.
What does it mean to pray in the Spirit?

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Romans 8:26-28
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
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Look up wordless groans there. Look up what is translated 'uttered' in the KJV version of 'groanings which cannot be utterred.'

Tongues can be uttered, since they are given as the Spirit gives utterance as we see in Acts 2.

If you are speaking in tongues out loud, you are uttering them.

So why would Romans 8 be about speaking in tongues? And why would speaking in tongues be the only why of praying in the Spirit?
 
presidente said:
Maybe you should take a research methods class or just watch a few video before you do this? A polygraph test? That wouldn't prove much, or really anything.
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Sure it would. Polygraphs are super dependable. As for methods, they could be fine tuned as testing proceeds. You have to start somewhere. I'm game. Anybody else?
 
presidente said:
Often, generic broad sweeping statements like this aren't absolutely true. One of the most famous verses in the Bible mentions both other and self-- you shall ove your neighbor as you love yourself.

The details of I Corinthians 14, for example, are still true, in spite of your broad statement. The one who speaks in tongues if there is no interpreter is to keep silent in the church, but he is still told to 'speak to himself and to God.'

Paul said he who speaks in tongues edifies himself. "I would that ye all spake with tongues." That's what he said about a self-edifying activity. But concerning an activity that edifies others, he said, 'but rather that ye prophesied.'

If self-edification were not allowed, we should not be allowed to pray or read the Bible alone. Who does reading the Bible benefit? Does it benefit God?

There is also the fact that we can build ourselves up so that we can be strong to help others, which applies to various forms of prayer and reading the Bible.
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It is my experience that most usage of tongues within the Church today does not follow what the Bible speaks of. It is no surprise to me, however, as the state of Christendom is so poor. People seem more ready to believe a pastor than their 'lying eyes' while reading the Bible.
 
cv5 said:
Sure it would. Polygraphs are super dependable. As for methods, they could be fine tuned as testing proceeds. You have to start somewhere. I'm game. Anybody else?
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How does a polygraph come in here? To test the sincerity of someone who speaks in tongues?

You say, "Do you speak in tongues?" He says "Yes."
So you can say, "Oh, he passed. He must speak in tongues!"

Is that how you envision this?

What is your source for saying polygraphs are very reliable?
 
presidente said:
What does it take to be a linguist? I have a bachelors. If you have a masters in linguistics, are you a linguist? If you have a PhD in linguistics are you a linguist? If you don't study linguistics at all, and you are a polyglott, are you a linguist?
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I would think using your noodle (brain) for languages would make you a Linguini.
A Th.D would make you a pasta. (pastor)
 
holdup said:
I agree in part with that. The issue is clear those in the video are in error. And using what is a gift of God out of order. As many do. These gross examples of abuse do not dismiss the empowring of the Holy Spirit, but reaffirms that man yet gain as we see in the word of God will misuse the gifts God has intrusted man with.
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These gross examples is a representative of what everyone else does; i used to do it myself and i know it means nothing.
 
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