Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

Sorry but I have to say we do not have to obey but I agree we want to obey.
But it must be out of love.

Although I will say that at times God has bought me to a place and asked me to do something and I refused. But he kept pressing the point and I submitted to his will.
Sometimes it followed through and other times not so.

God asked me to offer to pray for a man whose wife was in hospice.
They had a little shop at the end of our road.
So I am parked up and God asked me to do this.
I say no, he says yes.
I'm sat in the car having argument God.
Goodness knows what people in the carpark may have seen.
My arms flailing all over the place, head buried in my hands.

So I say "Yes ok I'll do it but make sure no one else is in the shop"
Anyway I got there.
No one else in the shop.
I pluck up the courage and ask "can I go and pray for your wife?

He said "No because she would tell you, go stick your Christianity up your ***** ass because your God is ******

So I did not want to obedient but I submitted.
Not to be saved but because I submitted to the will of our father

Look BillG, I've known you a long time and I know we have this misunderstanding.
But I love you as a brother in the Lord. Make no mistake.

I agree with all you've said above.
I just have one question for you:

What's the problem in saying WE MUST obey God?
Where in the N.T. does it say we're NOT supposed to obey God?

Does saying what the bible teaches make us a legalist? A pharisee?
No one here is under the law.
No other way to say this...
but we still have to obey God.

And who knows that your question to the man won't make him think things over...
we never go wrong when we obey God.
But no one obeys Him all the time. Impossible.

 

[GodsGrace101]

But you just said they were saved by law

[QUOTE="GodsGrace101, post: 3792472, member: 274948"

The law, the Mosaic Covenant, said that Israel had to obey God and follow the commandments in order to be saved.



So yeah, End of story, You can not even keep your story straight you contraidct yourself, becaue your faith can noto stand (or I should say lack of faith)

I guess I will wait for you to excuse your words so they they do nto contradict Like you excuse your sin by saying YOUR SIN is not enough to cause you to lose salvation.

I was quoting what the Mosaic Covenant stated...
NOT what I believe.

 

[Argueless]

Seoche.....keep posting the same wall of drivel and like before you will be sent packing.....

And you are right...Adam, Cain, and men like you have been pushing a works based lie from day one....good luck with your working for Catholic drivel.....!!

Nice try rebel soldier. Ever heard of Lucifers pride and rebellion and the Son of perdition? Doesn't sound like he's obedient to authorities. Now if you're a good soldier, YOU will obey your commanding officer. Take as an example the people of God who won so many battles and were saved from destruction whenever they OBEY God as their commander. Did you trust and OBEY your commanding officer in the Marines?

Why won't you obey the Lord Jesus when He says that "if you want to ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

...“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Luke 6:46

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was quoting what the Mosaic Covenant stated...
NOT what I believe.

No you were not. Because the mosaic covenat never stated it..and of course, You never would have said it unless you believed it..

Nice try though.. Keep it up. Your making it easy. .

 

[GodsGrace101]

Wow, He did nt even say this,, Is that what you do look for areas you can twist to atack people wiht a false truth in order to make them look bad.

Talk about sinking to a low standard

EG,
This is what @dcontroversal said in post no. 78,172, last sentence which is what I was replying to:

You guys sink to the lowest level of deception when it comes to the word and make no mistake, you all will pay the ultimate, eternal price if you keep conflating the word into that whichbit does not teach!


If I still understand English correctly, he's saying that if we CONFLATE the Word we will pay the ultimate price. I believe the ultimate price is hell. This means that if we have our doctrine wrong, we will end up in hell.

If THIS isn't legalism, I don't know what is. Apparently you agree with him.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Lol

People could read the OT and find the trinity

They could know of YHWH (Pre-incarnate Jesus)

They could know of the ultimate God or father (As jesus said, no one has seen the father, yet Jesus was seen as the angel of God,) and the HS was prayed for. In fact, David as you said prayed that God would not remeve the HS from him

What a joke..

As for santification, There are two types

Positional (we have been sanctified)

Conditional (we are being sanctified)

Maybe if you leaned the difference, you would finally see the gospel

Sure, it's easy. You know about it now and look for it.

As to sanctification....there's no such thing as positional sanctification.
Could you show me some scripture?
Sanctification is an on-going life process. HOW could it be positional?

 

[GodsGrace101]

No you were not. Because the mosaic covenat never stated it..and of course, You never would have said it unless you believed it..

Nice try though.. Keep it up. Your making it easy. .

YOU are doing the same as that guy that misquotes @posthuman .

I won't reply to you any longer.

P.S. It would be interesting to hear what YOU believe the Mosaic Covenant stated, but, frankly, I don't care.

 

[VCO]

What?
I believe a person CAN lose their salvation.
The son was saved.
lost.
saved.

Calvinists also believe a person could be lost...but, of course, they believe they were never really saved to begin with.

Yep, Armenians have a very low understanding of what is a Christian, and we KNOW that the majority of people that sit pews are NOT BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. I used to be one those kind of so-called Christians for YEARS. I thought that Infant Baptism and Reciting the Apostles Creed, meant I had to be SAVED. Now after 3 attempts at Suicide the last week of 1977, before I REPENTED (cried like baby) at 29 years of Age, and LOVINGLY Surrendered to Jesus Christ as my Master and LORD. I KNOW I WAS NEVER SAVED AT ALL FOR MY FIRST 29 YEARS on this earth. WAY DIFFERENT WITH HIM IN CONTROL OF MY LIFE.

 

[BillG]

Look BillG, I've known you a long time and I know we have this misunderstanding.
But I love you as a brother in the Lord. Make no mistake.

I agree with all you've said above.
I just have one question for you:

What's the problem in saying WE MUST obey God?
Where in the N.T. does it say we're NOT supposed to obey God?

Does saying what the bible teaches make us a legalist? A pharisee?
No one here is under the law.
No other way to say this...
but we still have to obey God.

And who knows that your question to the man won't make him think things over...
we never go wrong when we obey God.
But no one obeys Him all the time. Impossible.

Fran,

This is the point I wanted to make.

Jesus said "if you love me you will"
Did he say "You must obey?

The word "must" for me is the issue.
The issue is that we must obey in order to be saved.
And there are many who attach obedience to salvation.
Fran are you saved by your works?
Do you do works because you must or because you want to?
I do get that at times I have done works that I did want to but realise I SHOULD do because I came to realise that is what God wanted me to do.

As Jesus said "If you love me you will love obey"

 

[GodsGrace101]

Yep, Armenians have a very low understanding of what is a Christian, and we KNOW that the majority of people that sit pews are NOT BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. I used to be one those kind of so-called Christians for YEARS. I thought that Infant Baptism and Reciting the Apostles Creed, meant I had to be SAVED. Now after 3 attempts at Suicide the last week of 1977, before I REPENTED (cried like baby) at 29 years of Age, and LOVINGLY Surrendered to Jesus Christ as my Master and LORD. I KNOW I WAS NEVER SAVED AT ALL FOR MY FIRST 29 YEARS on this earth. WAY DIFFERENT WITH HIM IN CONTROL OF MY LIFE.

I agree with you.
And, BTW, I was saved at the age of about 28.
Didn't try suicide...but I was in a bad way.
And God, being all knowing...waited for me to be WELL, before giving me His word of Wisdom,,,so I couldn't think it was my imagination,,,knowing what a thinker I am !

I don't know really what an arminian is, but I know I'm not a calvinist.
Maybe no one is totally what they would be labeled...

 

[VCO]

Hang on for a minute, I'm just getting my


View attachment 191631


Go ahead punk make my day.

When will people learn that we do works as a result off.

John 14:15-16

Jesus Promises Another Helper
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—

It doesn't stop at our neighbors, it extends to our enemies.
It also goes into our workplace as well.
Anyone on here concentrate on preaching Jesus in the workplace when they should be doing the work they are paid for?

It envelopes our whole life, our love of Jesus is why obey him.
After all it's written on our hearts, that being the case it's out of love, because he first loved us.

1 Corinthians 13:13
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

AMEN, with the MAJOR Emphasis on LOVE.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Fran,

This is the point I wanted to make.

Jesus said "if you love me you will"
Did he say "You must obey?

The word "must" for me is the issue.
The issue is that we must obey in order to be saved.
And there are many who attach obedience to salvation.
Fran are you saved by your works?
Do you do works because you must or because you want to?
I do get that at times I have done works that I did want to but realise I SHOULD do because I came to realise that is what God wanted me to do.

As Jesus said "If you love me you will love obey"

I agree with you and know you and so will not argue the point with you.

The problem I have is that I hear too many on these forums pronounce that
obedience is NOT necessary.

Of course we do it out of love.
But the question becomes...could we NOT do works?
The answer has to be NO.
I'm required to be a disciple of Jesus and to follow in His ways.

You know what I think a work is...
Just being nice to someone is a work as man understand's works.
To US it shouldn't even BE a work. We should happily do good deeds in our life.
Even Paul and Timothy and others said we're to continue in good deeds.

I just hate to hear that it's NOT necessary.

It's not why we're saved...
It's a result of our salvation...
AGREED.

How could we change the word MUST???
It can't be SHOULD. God doesn't work with should.
When something comes out of HIS mouth...it's a MUST.
I'd be willing to change the word if you could come up with a replacement.

 

[Argueless]

...“He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.” Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him. Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. “As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:40-50

 

[VCO]

I agree with you.
And, BTW, I was saved at the age of about 28.
Didn't try suicide...but I was in a bad way.
And God, being all knowing...waited for me to be WELL, before giving me His word of Wisdom,,,so I couldn't think it was my imagination,,,knowing what a thinker I am !

I don't know really what an arminian is, but I know I'm not a calvinist.
Maybe no one is totally what they would be labeled...

I only believe in 3 points of the 5 point Calvinism. Therefore they DO NOT WANT TO CLAIM ME.

AND the Armenians DO NOT WANT TO CLAIM ME because I do believe in 3 Points of Calvinism.

SO WHAT AM I ? JUST AN BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, I attend a non-denominational, conservative evangelical type of Church.

I think it bugs everybody that is into that ARMENIAN VS. CALVINISM ARGUMENT.

 

[BillG]

I agree with you and know you and so will not argue the point with you.

The problem I have is that I hear too many on these forums pronounce that
obedience is NOT necessary.

Of course we do it out of love.
But the question becomes...could we NOT do works?
The answer has to be NO.
I'm required to be a disciple of Jesus and to follow in His ways.

You know what I think a work is...
Just being nice to someone is a work as man understand's works.
To US it shouldn't even BE a work. We should happily do good deeds in our life.
Even Paul and Timothy and others said we're to continue in good deeds.

I just hate to hear that it's NOT necessary.

It's not why we're saved...
It's a result of our salvation...
AGREED.

How could we change the word MUST???
It can't be SHOULD. God doesn't work with should.
When something comes out of HIS mouth...it's a MUST.
I'd be willing to change the word if you could come up with a replacement.

Ok do you have a verse that says "We must obey"

I can't recall anywhere in the Bible where God says "We must"
I can't recall Jesus saying we must.

In a sense works are necessary but not to be saved but because we are saved.
Jesus gave the commission.
Go make disciples.
To do what?
Good works or believe in him.
Forgiveness of the sin of unbelief in him.
When we repent of that then we disciple.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I only believe in 3 points of the 5 point Calvinism. Therefore they DO NOT WANT TO CLAIM ME.

AND the Armenians DO NOT WANT TO CLAIM ME because I do believe in 3 Points of Calvinism.

SO WHAT AM I ? JUST AN BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, I attend a non-denominational, conservative evangelical type of Church.

I think it bugs everybody that is into that ARMENIAN VS. CALVINISM ARGUMENT.

A man without a country.
GOD WANTS YOU!
I'm here in catholiclandia right now and attend nothing or the Mass, which I haven't been to in a long time.

God appreciates everything we do.
I would ask you which 3, but I hate to get into it.
There is some type of election in the bible and there is also our choosing...we should just leave it at that maybe.

 

[J70x7]

 

[GodsGrace101]

Ok do you have a verse that says "We must obey"

I can't recall anywhere in the Bible where God says "We must"
I can't recall Jesus saying we must.

In a sense works are necessary but not to be saved but because we are saved.
Jesus gave the commission.
Go make disciples.
To do what?
Good works or believe in him.
Forgiveness of the sin of unbelief in him.
When we repent of that then we disciple.

Tomorrow Bill.
You know the time.
I'm going to log off because you ask good questions and I'm too tired right now.
Night...

(a neighbor has moved to North London...one 15 yr old daughter. We're in a mess)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG,
This is what @dcontroversal said in post no. 78,172, last sentence which is what I was replying to:

You guys sink to the lowest level of deception when it comes to the word and make no mistake, you all will pay the ultimate, eternal price if you keep conflating the word into that whichbit does not teach!


If I still understand English correctly, he's saying that if we CONFLATE the Word we will pay the ultimate price. I believe the ultimate price is hell. This means that if we have our doctrine wrong, we will end up in hell.

If THIS isn't legalism, I don't know what is. Apparently you agree with him.

You said he said he thought YOUR DOCTRINE would save you.

He did not say that at all. He said if you do not come to TRUTH you are going to pay the ultimate price. Not save you..

Again, nice try

 

[BillG]

Tomorrow Bill.
You know the time.
I'm going to log off because you ask good questions and I'm too tired right now.
Night...

(a neighbor has moved to North London...one 15 yr old daughter. We're in a mess)

Sleep well precious lady.

Soon for me as well.
Just waiting for Tori to get back.