Speaking in tongues

[cv5]

I am now officially asking you to leave me alone.

My pleasure. Have a nice life.

 

[posthuman]

it's still weird that this whole thread is in English . .

 

[Sketch]

it's still weird that this whole thread is in English . .

Se on silti outoa, että tämä koko kierre on Englanti?

 

[presidente]

Paul never said to go find a language expert to interpret the tongues.
He didn't say don't go and do so either. Verification would be a great benefit to the world of unbelievers as well as the Church IMO.

I'm not really interested in helping you with your particular quest.
You would think that Pentecostals would be chomping at the bit to support their view, voluminously, vigorously, vociferously. Believe me I would in their shoes.

Thus far....nothing but evasion and obfuscation IMO.

Since there may be tongues of men and tongues of angels to consider, it's not something falsifiable. If come across a real human language, it is kind of ridiculous that you could actually know what language it is out of all the languages, live and dead that exist and have existed. From a research perspective that makes it a bit uninteresting to me. I'd rather track down one of the cases where someone spoke a known language if I were inclined to research such a thing.

 

[cv5]

Since there may be tongues of men and tongues of angels to consider, it's not something falsifiable. If come across a real human language, it is kind of ridiculous that you could actually know what language it is out of all the languages, live and dead that exist and have existed. From a research perspective that makes it a bit uninteresting to me. I'd rather track down one of the cases where someone spoke a known language if I were inclined to research such a thing.

I'd rather track down one of the cases where someone spoke a known language if I were inclined to research such a thing.

This has been precisely my request for the last week. Very simple. Very easy. Furthermore, we can eliminate the notion of tongues of angels, as this is quite frankly unknowable.
Let us deal with the verification of the gift of tongues being used per the gold standard of Act ch 2 where the languages were current and the phenomenon confirmed by literally hundreds of witnesses. Shall we begin?

 

[jaybird88]

it's still weird that this whole thread is in English . .

Che bella serata per un giro in macchina.

 

[cv5]

Che bella serata per un giro in macchina.

There we go! Somebody...anybody post some audio/video of a different language unknown to the speaker uttered in miraculous fashion, I will pay the cost of a polygraph test and get it on the record that this incident is legit. We get a sample of half a dozen or a dozen and all the tests come out positive.....and we are good to go. Then comes the important part. TESTIFYING to these miracles to one and all. God has visisted us with signs and miracles.

 

[TMS]

This gift can come from God or Satan. Satan gives gifts and lies and will fool many as a result.
How do we know who it is from?
Gods gifts will be for the benifit of other, to help bring others to a knowledge of the truth, to help people see His love. To further Gods causes and bring people to worship Jesus.
Satan will cause confusion and distract people from God's work. Satan will not cause people worship God and understand more about God's love.

Be still and know that i am God. Psa 46:10
God knows our thoughts and the Holy Spirit translates our prays so we don't need to speak in another language for God to hear us.

 

[Noose]

Two questions:
If someone testified that God spoke to them, would you accept their testimony?

No.

If someone was healed after being prayed for, would give God the glory for their healing?

No, not specifically because of a claim but giving glory to God is supposed to be a continuous thing, in sickness and in health.

Two questions:
Q1. If someone came to you and claimed to be God or an angel, would you believe it? please explain why?
Q2. If someone came to you and claimed to be satan or a demon, would you believe it? please explain why?

 

[Noose]

I think everyone gets too hung up on the groaning part and complete misses what is being said about it.
The Spirit interceding for us... in accordance with the will of God. Does anyone not want that?

Romans 8:26-28
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

There's a big difference between groaning and speaking or using your tongue (organ). Groaning is production of deep sounds while speaking involves use of tongue (organ) and lips to control the produced sound into meaningful words based on the information stored in your mind.

So please, drop that argument for the sake of time; there is no connection between groaning and tongue. Someone who doesn't have a tongue can only groan.

 

[Noose]

In I Corinthians, 14, we see it is possible for the speaker in tongues to speak in tongues in a disorerly manner, to speak when they should not.

Even prophets could continue speaking when they should actually yield the floor for another sitting by.

There is stewardship involved in the use of the gifts.

1 Cor 14 is about love and not about self edification. Love is always about others rather than self.

 

[Noose]

There is a gift of interpretation of tongues. Read I Corinthians 12. Paul never said to go find a language expert to interpret the tongues.

And this is also an evidence that today's phenomenon is not genuine. How comes everyone claims to speak in tongues but those that can interpret are very very very few? It is said God distributes the gifts as He wills but what we see today is so skewed, we can hadly call it a distribution.

 

[Noose]

This gift can come from God or Satan. Satan gives gifts and lies and will fool many as a result.
How do we know who it is from?
Gods gifts will be for the benifit of other, to help bring others to a knowledge of the truth, to help people see His love. To further Gods causes and bring people to worship Jesus.
Satan will cause confusion and distract people from God's work. Satan will not cause people worship God and understand more about God's love.

Be still and know that i am God. Psa 46:10
God knows our thoughts and the Holy Spirit translates our prays so we don't need to speak in another language for God to hear us.

Ok, what we have today is total confusion. 100% of it.

 

[Noose]

Se on silti outoa, että tämä koko kierre on Englanti?

Now this is a real tongue.

 

[Noose]

Since there may be tongues of men and tongues of angels to consider, it's not something falsifiable. If come across a real human language, it is kind of ridiculous that you could actually know what language it is out of all the languages, live and dead that exist and have existed. From a research perspective that makes it a bit uninteresting to me. I'd rather track down one of the cases where someone spoke a known language if I were inclined to research such a thing.

This is a self defeating statement. Tracking something or a case that you already think is not falsifiable can not help you in any way other than build your muscles and make you fit.

Are we not told to test the spirits?

And why would you want to track someone else but also claim to have the same spirit? Test what is in you first.

The tongues that you speak daily, is it genuine because of 1 Corinthians 14? Is it genuine because you saw someone else speak and something miraculous happened?

 

[Sketch]

Two questions:
Q1. If someone came to you and claimed to be God or an angel, would you believe it? please explain why?
Q2. If someone came to you and claimed to be satan or a demon, would you believe it? please explain why?

A1) No/maybe. Not in general. Especially in the case of someone claiming to be God. An angel might announce themselves.
But typically they don't. Sometimes we "entertain angels unawares".
A2) Same as above. No/Maybe. My spirit would bear witness to the evil presence.
And Satan and his minions are liars, so they can't really be trusted or believed anyway.
A demon might claim to be Satan. (or God)

 

[Sketch]

There's a big difference between groaning and speaking or using your tongue (organ). Groaning is production of deep sounds while speaking involves use of tongue (organ) and lips to control the produced sound into meaningful words based on the information stored in your mind.

So please, drop that argument for the sake of time; there is no connection between groaning and tongue. Someone who doesn't have a tongue can only groan.

You are still hung up on the groaning part and ignoring the Spirit interceding part. So I was right.
What does it mean to pray in the Spirit?

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Romans 8:26-28
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

 

[Kavik]

Translation: You don't speak in tongues.

Actually, I'm a linguist - I "speak in tongues" almost everyday when I'm playing around with the sounds of languages.

 

[Noose]

A1) No/maybe. Not in general. Especially in the case of someone claiming to be God. An angel might announce themselves.
But typically they don't. Sometimes we "entertain angels unawares".
A2) Same as above. No/Maybe. My spirit would bear witness to the evil presence.
And Satan and his minions are liars, so they can't really be trusted or believed anyway.
A demon might claim to be Satan. (or God)

The word 'maybe' in your answer, is an indication of something really wrong.

Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

In the old times, God had a mission when He sent prophets, messengers, angels, donkey, kings, Judges, seers, mad kings- that time is over and the mission was complete.
It came a time that God Himself came for a mission- that time is gone
In this era, God has already spoken to us through His appointees and was later recorded for our own benefit. There are no more missions- we either receive the word of God as was recorded or reject Him (God) and listen to some one else who may claim to be either an angel of light or satan; it doesn't matter, if it is not from God it is from satan.

The answer to the above questions is a big NO all the way, same as the issue on tongues or healing or miracles. NO NO NO.

 

[Sketch]

Actually, I'm a linguist - I "speak in tongues" almost everyday when I'm playing around with the sounds of languages.

Why would you say that is speaking in tongues on a topic about the manifestation of the Holy Spirit?