Not By Works
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I agree, but will again cite the fact that I was born premature without the flap on the stomach......yes diet does help and if I do not eat past a certain time of the night as the only time I have a problem is at night if I eat too late, too much or something like pasta with sauce.....wake up gagging and coughing on the acid.....
Uffa. I really am sorry.
I wonder what a Cainologist is.
Do you think I'm refused by God?
What do you think of the Early Church theologians?
You know, people like Clement of Rome that was mentioned in the N.T.
and personally knew Paul...
Philippians 4:3
2I urge Euodia and I urge Syntyche to live in harmony in the Lord.
3Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
And look, Paul mentions his fellow workerfors.
Whose names are in the Book of Life.
I consider YOU to be a preacher here on this very popular thread.
YOU are doing work for God....
So what's so wrong with work if even YOU are doing it?
I wonder what a Cainologist is.
Do you think I'm refused by God?
What do you think of the Early Church theologians?
You know, people like Clement of Rome that was mentioned in the N.T.
and personally knew Paul...
Philippians 4:3
2I urge Euodia and I urge Syntyche to live in harmony in the Lord.
3Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
And look, Paul mentions his fellow workerfors.
Whose names are in the Book of Life.
I consider YOU to be a preacher here on this very popular thread.
YOU are doing work for God....
So what's so wrong with work if even YOU are doing it?
Very good post.
You really think some will read it?
There is no conflict between faith and works.
It takes both.
Faith without works is dead.
Also, when Paul speaks of works, he's talking about THE LAW and how people tried to be saved by following the LAW instead of worshipping and loving God.
It's actually that easy...it's just that some hate the word WORK, even though it's all over the N.T.
I won't bother to post verses, but I'm sure the next time some read their bible they will pay more attention to that word.
You really think some will read it?
There is no conflict between faith and works.
It takes both.
Faith without works is dead.
Also, when Paul speaks of works, he's talking about THE LAW and how people tried to be saved by following the LAW instead of worshipping and loving God.
It's actually that easy...it's just that some hate the word WORK, even though it's all over the N.T.
I won't bother to post verses, but I'm sure the next time some read their bible they will pay more attention to that word.
Sorry Fran.....your view is not biblical....even if we walk away and or stray he leaves the 99 and comes to find us and FINISH WHAT HE STARTED....He will COMPLETE HIS WORK AND HE ABIDES FAITHFUL to his work and promises....and that is the point you miss, the same point which devalues the gospel you peddle to something akin to cheap trinket jewelry at a flea market.......!
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... “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Revelation 3:1-6
Fran as you know I really do like you, I have no problem with works whatsoever at all....they have a place in a believer's life.....but that place is NOT FOR SALVATION AND OR TO KEEP OR FINISH SALVATION, BUT the results of.....I HAVE ALWAYS said this.....AND the reason I reference CAINOLOGISTS is simple...any and all that teach a salvation that can be lost are not relying upon Jesus for said salvation, but rather what they DO and not what he has DONE......it is simple.....and double emphasis...I really like you, but not what you peddle.....!
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What is cheap, my dear Dcon, is what YOU peddle.
How do you suppose those that knew the Apostles thought about being saved?
Do you think they walked down an isle to "accept" Jesus?
You sound very studied...have you not studied those that knew the Apostles?
Notice that even Clement of Rome has a comment, and MANY more!
The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. . . . He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works. Barnabas (c. 70-130), 1.148, 149.
We are justified by our works and not our words. Clement of Rome (c. 96), 1.13.
. . . that He may both hear you, and perceive by your works that you are indeed the members of His Son. . . . Faith cannot do the works of unbelief, nor unbelief the works of faith. . . . The tree is made manifest by its fruit. So those who profess themselves to be Christians will be recognized by their conduct. . . . It is better for a man to be silent and be [a Christian], than to talk and not be one. Ignatius (c. 105), 1.51-55.
Therefore, brethren, by doing the will of the Father, and keeping the flesh holy, and observing the commandments of the Lord, we will obtain eternal life. Second Clement (c. 150), 7.519.
Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them. Hermas (c. 150), 2.25.
We . . . hasten to confess our faith, persuaded and convinced as we are that those who have proved to God by their works that they followed Him, and loved to abide with Him where there is no sin to cause disturbance, can obtain these things. . . . Each man goes to everlasting punishment or salvation according to the value of his actions. Justin Martyr (c. 160), 1.165, 166.
We will give account to God not only of deeds (as slaves), but even of words and thoughts (as being those who have truly received the power of liberty). For under liberty, a man is more severely tested as to whether he will reverence, fear, and love the Lord. . . . God desires obedience, which renders [His worshippers] secure—rather than sacrifices and burnt-offerings, which avail men nothing toward righteousness. Irenaeus (c. 180), 1.482.
When we hear, "Your faith has saved you," we do not understand Him to say absolutely that those who have believed in any way whatsoever will be saved. For works must also follow. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195), 2.505.
source: What the Early Christians Believed About Salvation - chasingalion.com
It would be great if everyone reading along really read the above and understood that this is what the very first Christians believed. The gospel and the Word of God has changed and is no longer recognizable in our modern society.
Maybe some just find the above to difficult to accept...
But God is the same always and does not change and neither does what He expects of us.
I mean,,,it would behoove everyone here to listen to Barnabas and not Dcon, who is doing his best, but is deceived.
How do you suppose those that knew the Apostles thought about being saved?
Do you think they walked down an isle to "accept" Jesus?
You sound very studied...have you not studied those that knew the Apostles?
Notice that even Clement of Rome has a comment, and MANY more!
The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. . . . He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works. Barnabas (c. 70-130), 1.148, 149.
We are justified by our works and not our words. Clement of Rome (c. 96), 1.13.
. . . that He may both hear you, and perceive by your works that you are indeed the members of His Son. . . . Faith cannot do the works of unbelief, nor unbelief the works of faith. . . . The tree is made manifest by its fruit. So those who profess themselves to be Christians will be recognized by their conduct. . . . It is better for a man to be silent and be [a Christian], than to talk and not be one. Ignatius (c. 105), 1.51-55.
Therefore, brethren, by doing the will of the Father, and keeping the flesh holy, and observing the commandments of the Lord, we will obtain eternal life. Second Clement (c. 150), 7.519.
Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them. Hermas (c. 150), 2.25.
We . . . hasten to confess our faith, persuaded and convinced as we are that those who have proved to God by their works that they followed Him, and loved to abide with Him where there is no sin to cause disturbance, can obtain these things. . . . Each man goes to everlasting punishment or salvation according to the value of his actions. Justin Martyr (c. 160), 1.165, 166.
We will give account to God not only of deeds (as slaves), but even of words and thoughts (as being those who have truly received the power of liberty). For under liberty, a man is more severely tested as to whether he will reverence, fear, and love the Lord. . . . God desires obedience, which renders [His worshippers] secure—rather than sacrifices and burnt-offerings, which avail men nothing toward righteousness. Irenaeus (c. 180), 1.482.
When we hear, "Your faith has saved you," we do not understand Him to say absolutely that those who have believed in any way whatsoever will be saved. For works must also follow. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195), 2.505.
source: What the Early Christians Believed About Salvation - chasingalion.com
It would be great if everyone reading along really read the above and understood that this is what the very first Christians believed. The gospel and the Word of God has changed and is no longer recognizable in our modern society.
Maybe some just find the above to difficult to accept...
But God is the same always and does not change and neither does what He expects of us.
I mean,,,it would behoove everyone here to listen to Barnabas and not Dcon, who is doing his best, but is deceived.
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... Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED. Romans 13:8-11
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Well, ditto to that!
I also like you but not what you "peddle". I understand this modern salvation mode...
You know very well that I don't believe works save anyone...
BUT, after salvation they are necessary to MAINTAIN it. I know this sounds terrible, but I'm not the one teaching it.
The N.T. teaches this, and also the very first Christians understood this.
Colossians 3:23
1 Timothy 5:8
John 5:17
..............
I also like you but not what you "peddle". I understand this modern salvation mode...
You know very well that I don't believe works save anyone...
BUT, after salvation they are necessary to MAINTAIN it. I know this sounds terrible, but I'm not the one teaching it.
The N.T. teaches this, and also the very first Christians understood this.
Colossians 3:23
1 Timothy 5:8
John 5:17
..............
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