Not By Works

[ReturnToGod]

If you believe a perfect obedience in regards to the Holy spirit is what keeps you saved, you are incorrect... It will always be the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ

It is by faith and faith manifests itself. It has nothing to do with perfect obedience. None of us can be that. But it is a far different story to say that we are sinning intentionally, we don't care to do the will of God, or that we are not committed to obey for Hebrews 5:9 and Hebrews 10:26-29. If we are sinning intentionally, there is NO sacrifice for sins left......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Many believers think they do. They live the life they want. They "sin all the time". I have had direct discussions with "believers" who have actually told me they can sin all they want. This is what the Modern Church teaches, most often indirectly. It is a lie from Hell.

no, thats licentiousness,, no one is saved who thinks sin is ok. if they think this, they do not understand the problem between God and man how then could they have ever been saved?

they sre just asoff base as legalists saying we must work to maintain our salvation, Both gospels are based on pride and a refusal to truly repent and recieve christ, and both are to be damned.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are dangerous to babes in Christ...
Romans 8:14-16 16 The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
I do not need you to tell me that I am only giving half of myself to God , I surrended all of me to Jesus when I came to the foot of the cross...
Maybe you do not post Scripture because you do not apply to Romans 8:14-16

Not sure who you are talking too (Must be one of the many I have on ignore) But amen sister. amen.

 

[ReturnToGod]

You are dangerous to babes in Christ...
Romans 8:14-16 16 The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
I do not need you to tell me that I am only giving half of myself to God , I surrended all of me to Jesus when I came to the foot of the cross...
Maybe you do not post Scripture because you do not apply to Romans 8:14-16

Scripture says we can both grieve and quench (extinguish) the Spirit. (let me know if you want the verses). We are saved through faith but faith is not a simple intellectual acknowledgement. True faith manifests itself. Not in perfection, but in our striving to do what is right before God.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Many believers think they do. They live the life they want. They "sin all the time". I have had direct discussions with "believers" who have actually told me they can sin all they want. This is what the Modern Church teaches, most often indirectly. It is a lie from Hell.

well you already have an issue

a saved believer does not want sin
they want to be delivered from sin

for example

I am a saved believer.
I will go to heaven not by my efforts, nor will any of my efforts aid one bit in my salvation.... God has made this clear to me

but having recieved a new heart which desires righteousness and wishes to demonstrate my love for God by showing His love in me through the Holy spirit means i do not want sin


and if i were to to sin all i want

it would be 0
never one more mistake for the rest of my life

this thread isn't arguing against the truth
it is tearing down the false doctrine of man which claims Jesus is a prerequisite for salvation and mans works are what maintains salvation

 

[Pisteuo]

Every saved believer has already recieved a new heart and the indwelling Holy spirit

God doesn't fail nor forsake one of us


though sometimes we must endure chastening as His children when our walk isn't as it should be

No such thing as a saved believer .

 

[ReturnToGod]

no, thats licentiousness,, no one is saved who thinks sin is ok. if they think this, they do not understand the problem between God and man how then could they have ever been saved?

they sre just asoff base as legalists saying we must work to maintain our salvation, Both gospels are based on pride and a refusal to truly repent and recieve christ, and both are to be damned.

We agree. If the Holy Spirit is in us (which is God) he leads us to hate sin and to works bringing glory to our God. Yet the Holy Spirit is a counselor and helper, not a controller. We can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well you already have an issue

a saved believer does not want sin
they want to be delivered from sin

for example

I am a saved believer.
I will go to heaven not by my efforts, nor will any of my efforts aid one bit in my salvation.... God has made this clear to me

but having recieved a new heart which desires righteousness and wishes to demonstrate my love for God by showing His love in me through the Holy spirit means i do not want sin


and if i were to to sin all i want

it would be 0
never one more mistake for the rest of my life

this thread isn't arguing against the truth
it is tearing down the false doctrine of man which claims Jesus is a prerequisite for salvation and mans works are what maintains salvation

Amen romans 7,

 

[ReturnToGod]

well you already have an issue

a saved believer does not want sin
they want to be delivered from sin

for example

I am a saved believer.
I will go to heaven not by my efforts, nor will any of my efforts aid one bit in my salvation.... God has made this clear to me

but having recieved a new heart which desires righteousness and wishes to demonstrate my love for God by showing His love in me through the Holy spirit means i do not want sin


and if i were to to sin all i want

it would be 0
never one more mistake for the rest of my life

this thread isn't arguing against the truth
it is tearing down the false doctrine of man which claims Jesus is a prerequisite for salvation and mans works are what maintains salvation

Careful. You have the choice whether you live in sin or not. God has granted you that free will. Scripture says you can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit. I am uncomfortable with the idea that we "maintain" salvation so perhaps clarify for me. Are you saying a person who has accepted Jesus Christ can live in as much sin as they desire and remain saved?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

It is by faith and faith manifests itself. It has nothing to do with perfect obedience. None of us can be that. But it is a far different story to say that we are sinning intentionally, we don't care to do the will of God, or that we are not committed to obey for Hebrews 5:9 and Hebrews 10:26-29. If we are sinning intentionally, there is NO sacrifice for sins left......

you misunderstand that hebrews is speaking of no more sacrifice for the jews for their willful sin

this is not a verse speaking of the loss of salvation

Jesus was the final sacrifice

there is no more sacrifice for willful sin

many word for word break downs on this thread alone over every verse you will take out of context to push a man made belief system void of the true gospel<- the good news

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Careful. You have the choice whether you live in sin or not. God has granted you that free will. Scripture says you can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit. I am uncomfortable with the idea that we "maintain" salvation so perhaps clarify for me. Are you saying a person who has accepted Jesus Christ can live in as much sin as they desire and remain saved?

lol.... eh?

the post you replied to answers your question

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We agree. If the Holy Spirit is in us (which is God) he leads us to hate sin and to works bringing glory to our God. Yet the Holy Spirit is a counselor and helper, not a controller. We can grieve and quench the Holy Spirit.

Yes, But to lose salvation, the HS has to leave you, and unseal you, and you have to die again, then be resaved again. And have the HS baptise you again and re-enter you and reseal you (eph 1)

Thats not the case

We grieve him as a chid grieves a parent, As as a parend does a child. The HS chastens the children of God. He does not kick them out of his family

 

[ReturnToGod]

you misunderstand that hebrews is speaking of no more sacrifice for the jews for their willful sin

this is not a verse speaking of the loss of salvation

Jesus was the final sacrifice

there is no more sacrifice for willful sin

many word for word break downs on this thread alone over every verse you will take out of context to push a man made belief system void of the true gospel<- the good news

oh yes it is. they have been sanctified by the blood of Jesus Christ according to the passage. it is talking about people who continue to sin after accepting Jesus Christ. their destiny is also referred to in the passage......read the entire passage to get the context.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

oh yes it is. they have been sanctified by the blood of Jesus Christ according to the passage. it is talking about people who continue to sin after accepting Jesus Christ. their destiny is also referred to in the passage......read the entire passage to get the context.

i have many times

and praise God for revealing the truth of what is being said there


i will pray He opens your eyes to the truth

 

[ReturnToGod]

Yes, But to lose salvation, the HS has to leave you, and unseal you, and you have to die again, then be resaved again. And have the HS baptise you again and re-enter you and reseal you (eph 1)

Thats not the case

We grieve him as a chid grieves a parent, As as a parend does a child. The HS chastens the children of God. He does not kick them out of his family

That is a human metaphor, not scripture. the Bible explicitly states that "For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." (or true sons of God) Led means to follow. We have the choice to follow or refuse to follow as stated and grieve or quench the Holy Spirit. Many many Christians today refuse to walk WITH the Holy Spirit. Paul defines the difference between being indwelt and walking with the Holy Spirit in Galatians 5:25. The same in emphasized in Galatians 6:7-9.

 

[BillG]

4) The Vines defines pisteuo as ," a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth ."

Please give us your understanding of the above and how this works outwardly.
If you have already done this please give me the link to it.

Ta

 

[Pisteuo]

You are dangerous to babes in Christ...
Romans 8:14-16 16 The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
I do not need you to tell me that I am only giving half of myself to God , I surrended all of me to Jesus when I came to the foot of the cross...
Maybe you do not post Scripture because you do not apply to Romans 8:14-16

If a someone was truly " a babe in Christ " , they would rejoice that someone is valadating what they had already done . Very few better feelings in this world .

 

[ReturnToGod]

i have many times

and praise God for revealing the truth of what is being said there


i will pray He opens your eyes to the truth

So you now you agree it is talking about salvation because it is talking about those sanctified by the blood of Christ?

 

[BillG]

No such thing as" believing ".

Do you believe that God created the world?
Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God who died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins.
Do you believe faith saves or works save or faith plus works save?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is a human metaphor, not scripture. the Bible explicitly states that "For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." (or true sons of God) Led means to follow. We have the choice to follow or refuse to follow as stated and grieve or quench the Holy Spirit. Many many Christians today refuse to walk WITH the Holy Spirit. Paul defines the difference between being indwelt and walking with the Holy Spirit in Galatians 5:25. The same in emphasized in Galatians 6:7-9.

So you would rather try to earn your way to heaven by doing your best to be good. Instead of allowing God to save you. And begin that great work of sanctifying you as he promised until the day of Christ?

My power at any time will never be enough to live up to Gods standard. And I would be a fool (pauls words not mine) If I would think I could perfect what God began in me through the spirit.

it is not a metaphor. It is Gods word. We are sealed by the HS until the day of redemption. Not until the day we stop walking. Even the prodigal son stopped walking, but he never stopped being the son.