Thief on the Cross

[Wansvic]

This is Strong's "convert" from Luke 22:32

1. 1) transitively
   1a) to turn to
   1a1) to the worship of the true God
   1b) to cause to return, to bring back
   1b1) to the love and obedience of God
   1b2) to the love for the children
   1b3) to love wisdom and righteousness
   2) intransitively
   2a) to turn to one's self
   2b) to turn one's self about, turn back
   2c) to return, turn back, come back

Most translations don't render it as "convert". It is rendered as "turn back" or "repent" or "return". This passage is NOT about Peter becoming saved.

It is about a Sheep that has wandered, but he IS a Sheep!

I am interested in your understanding of what Jesus meant when He spoke these words to Peter. And what 2 or 3 other scriptures confirm your thoughts. I enjoy studying and intend to do that but just would like any insight you may have on the topic.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:

Galations 5:13-14
King James Version(KJV)


13.)For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

14.)For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[tourist]

Well, Jesus went somewhere for three days after death. Where did He go? He said the thief was going to be with Him THAT DAY. Here is Strong's definition of Paradise in Luke 23:43

1. 1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
   2) a garden, pleasure ground
   2a) grove, park
   3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
   4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world
   5) heaven

It doesn't appear He went to Heaven with His Father during those 3 days. I think it's reasonable to say that between Ephesians:4
8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [d]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

And...... 1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

Jesus went to Hades, and the Thief went to the good part of it.

Just talking. Could be wrong about it though.

Your explanation sounds plausible. In any case the thief was remembered by Jesus and will spend eternity in the loving presence of God. That's very interesting about Jesus, after His death on the cross spent 3 days (and each day is like a 1000 years to Him) preaching to the spirits in prison. There would be no point to preach to these spirits unless Jesus intended to release them.

 

[tourist]

It scares me knowing He knows my heart.

...and having known your heart He will then heal you. "Fear not" says the Lord. I would take comfort in that and not be afraid.

 

[dcontroversal]

Right! We often hear people speak and use the verse "But God looks on our hearts" as if that is so comforting.

Wait a minute here? You mean God, GOD the LORD of Scripture looks on our hearts, and we're like swollen with pure gladness over this? Lolzzzz. Sometimes we don't think deeply enough into that prospect. Hebrews 4:12 anyone? Jeremiah 17:9?

Just think about that, God looks on our hearts, he knows every thought. And then, it is our hearts from where the action of our lives come from. I'm aware that not all of the thoughts of my heart are pure, holy, right, just, good. Uh-oh!

Well, praise God for his mercy and grace, that's for certain!

Exactly why the word cuts to the thoughts and intents of the mind (heart) MOTIVE goes a long way concerning our judgment.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Your explanation sounds plausible. In any case the thief was remembered by Jesus and will spend eternity in the loving presence of God. That's very interesting about Jesus, after His death on the cross spent 3 days (and each day is like a 1000 years to Him) preaching to the spirits in prison. There would be no point to preach to these spirits unless Jesus intended to release them.

Hence leading captivity captive......a very bad translation........

 

[Lillywolf]

You mention the thief knew who Jesus was and having this faith saved him. Believing who Jesus is does not save a person according to the following scriptures:

Peter was the first to say he knew who Jesus was: "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Matt 16:16-17) Jesus later said: "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren." Luke 22:31-32 Jesus implication is that a future event would occur that Peter would act upon and be converted.

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19

I would suggest no one else in scripture is relevant to this particular soul that we are discussing as per the salvation promise. Jesus saved him as they hung together side by side on the cross. The thief believed, Jesus knew his heart, and told the thief, today you shall be with me in paradise.
Which also informs the reader that on that day Jesus returned to the Father. Not Hell.

 

[PennEd]

Your explanation sounds plausible. In any case the thief was remembered by Jesus and will spend eternity in the loving presence of God. That's very interesting about Jesus, after His death on the cross spent 3 days (and each day is like a 1000 years to Him) preaching to the spirits in prison. There would be no point to preach to these spirits unless Jesus intended to release them.

You would be a cool guy to hang out with. Your optimism is awesome.
I don't think you're right on this matter, but hope I'm wrong.

 

[PennEd]

I would suggest no one else in scripture is relevant to this particular soul that we are discussing as per the salvation promise. Jesus saved him as they hung together side by side on the cross. The thief believed, Jesus knew his heart, and told the thief, today you shall be with me in paradise.
Which also informs the reader that on that day Jesus returned to the Father. Not Hell.

Can You show me in Scripture where it says Jesus went to the Father during those 3 days? I have shown that he did descend into HADES, which is not hell. (The lake of fire)

 

[tourist]

You would be a cool guy to hang out with. Your optimism is awesome.
I don't think you're right on this matter, but hope I'm wrong.

Thank you for your kind words. You're pretty awesome as well.

 

[Lillywolf]

Can You show me in Scripture where it says Jesus went to the Father during those 3 days? I have shown that he did descend into HADES, which is not hell. (The lake of fire)

Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Ephesians 4:8–10
8 Therefore 1it says,
“aWhen He ascended on high,
He bled captive a host of captives,
And He gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this expression, “He aascended,” what 1does it mean except that He also 2had descended into bthe lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended afar above all the heavens, so that He might bfill all things.)


Luke 23:39-43 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!" 40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." 42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

 

[John146]

I would suggest no one else in scripture is relevant to this particular soul that we are discussing as per the salvation promise. Jesus saved him as they hung together side by side on the cross. The thief believed, Jesus knew his heart, and told the thief, today you shall be with me in paradise.
Which also informs the reader that on that day Jesus returned to the Father. Not Hell.

After three days and three nights the Lord Jesus resurrected and appeared to Mary at the tomb. He had not yet ascended.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

 

[tourist]

I would suggest no one else in scripture is relevant to this particular soul that we are discussing as per the salvation promise. Jesus saved him as they hung together side by side on the cross. The thief believed, Jesus knew his heart, and told the thief, today you shall be with me in paradise.
Which also informs the reader that on that day Jesus returned to the Father. Not Hell.

Jesus did tell the thief "I assure you today that you will be with me in paradise. Yet, it is obvious from scripture that Jesus did not ascend immediately upon death into heaven because He was in the grave 3 evenings and 3 mornings, 3 days.

After His resurrection He appeared to Mary and told her not to cling to Him because He had not yet ascended to heaven to His father. Later, in front of the apostles Jesus was ascended up into the clouds and an angel told those watching that this same Jesus who ascended into the clouds will one day return.

A likely explanation is that Jesus, by saying "Today" was assuring the thief that on this day (the day He died) He is giving the thief His word that He will indeed remember him with He came into His kingdom and on that day the thief would be with Jesus in paradise.

 

[PennEd]

After three days and three nights the Lord Jesus resurrected and appeared to Mary at the tomb. He had not yet ascended.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

This is game, set, match to the question of whether Jesus went to the Father during His 3 days in the tomb. Nice job.

 

[Wansvic]

When studying whether the thief on the cross died under the OT dispensation or the NT dispensation one must consider when the NT began.

God’s Word is specific regarding what makes it possible for the NT church to be reborn spiritually. Without the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, rebirth was impossible for the NT church.

The record in Matthew 27:53 was brought up as evidence that the thief on the cross died after Jesus died and was resurrected, thus it would seem the thief died after the NT began. Upon studying the scripture verses it is clear that this is not the case.

One knows that evidence of an established concept requires 2-3 other scripture verses that comply with one another. Knowing that there are many scriptures that indicate Jesus Christ resurrected 3 days after His death is the first clue. (Mark 8:31; John 2:19; Matt. 12:40)

So due to other scripture verses debunking what one thinks Matt 27:53 portrays the error has to be in one’s understanding of that particular scripture verse.

Matt 27:50-53
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection,

Upon reading the above scripture verses it is clear that after Jesus’ crucifixion the graves broke open due to the earthquake. It goes on to say the bodies of the saints rose and came out of the graves after His resurrection. The bodies could not have been raised until Jesus was raised. The conclusion is that the events happened but not at the exact time of Jesus’ death.

Additional scripture verses confirm the conclusion:
Acts 26:23
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

1 Cor 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Col 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

 

[oldethennew]

there is simply NO WAY that the 'thief' could be in 'Paradise' THAT DAY, as Christ was going to be in the grave
for (3) days, NOT in Paradise - so, something just doesn't add-up here'...

 

[Ahwatukee]

When studying whether the thief on the cross died under the OT dispensation or the NT dispensation one must consider when the NT began.

God’s Word is specific regarding what makes it possible for the NT church to be reborn spiritually. Without the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, rebirth was impossible for the NT church.

The record in Matthew 27:53 was brought up as evidence that the thief on the cross died after Jesus died and was resurrected, thus it would seem the thief died after the NT began. Upon studying the scripture verses it is clear that this is not the case.

One knows that evidence of an established concept requires 2-3 other scripture verses that comply with one another. Knowing that there are many scriptures that indicate Jesus Christ resurrected 3 days after His death is the first clue. (Mark 8:31; John 2:19; Matt. 12:40)

So due to other scripture verses debunking what one thinks Matt 27:53 portrays the error has to be in one’s understanding of that particular scripture verse.

Matt 27:50-53
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection,

Upon reading the above scripture verses it is clear that after Jesus’ crucifixion the graves broke open due to the earthquake. It goes on to say the bodies of the saints rose and came out of the graves after His resurrection. The bodies could not have been raised until Jesus was raised. The conclusion is that the events happened but not at the exact time of Jesus’ death.

Additional scripture verses confirm the conclusion:
Acts 26:23
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

1 Cor 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Col 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Greetins Wansvic,

This question is simple to deduce and is demonstrated right in the scripture itself, when the thief said:

"Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

Therefore, the thief died as one belonging to the church, recognizing Jesus as Lord, as well as His resurrection, since even though the Lord was about to die on the cross the man spoke of His coming kingdom, ergo, resurrection.

 

[Deade]

Jesus did tell the thief "I assure you today that you will be with me in paradise. Yet, it is obvious from scripture that Jesus did not ascend immediately upon death into heaven because He was in the grave 3 evenings and 3 mornings, 3 days.

After His resurrection He appeared to Mary and told her not to cling to Him because He had not yet ascended to heaven to His father. Later, in front of the apostles Jesus was ascended up into the clouds and an angel told those watching that this same Jesus who ascended into the clouds will one day return.

A likely explanation is that Jesus, by saying "Today" was assuring the thief that on this day (the day He died) He is giving the thief His word that He will indeed remember him with He came into His kingdom and on that day the thief would be with Jesus in paradise.

All ya have to do is move the comma: Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee[,] To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise." There was no punctuation in the original Greek. ESV: Luke 23:43 "And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you[,] today, you will be with me in paradise.”"

 

[seed_time_harvest]

there is simply NO WAY that the 'thief' could be in 'Paradise' THAT DAY, as Christ was going to be in the grave
for (3) days, NOT in Paradise - so, something just doesn't add-up here'...

I think you are looking at the death burial and resurrection of the LORD as the real but what about the SPIRIT that NEVER died and IS truly GOD?

 

[Wansvic]

God's Word will never, ever contradict itself. When scriptures seem to defy one another the problem is not the Word. The problem will always be found in an individual's interpretation.

The only way one can be assured that what they perceive as true of a particular scripture, is when the context of 2 or 3 other scriptures line up with the scripture in question. This principle is what confirms one's understanding is correct. (2 Cor 13:1)