Misuse of the local church

[preacher4truth]

No see this is the judgement that is spoken of as to not engage in. You don't know what I would or have done nor do you care what my intent is. You want to assign intent and assign to me what my actions would be. I have niether nor have I caused or stirred up a church ruckus. (Save the punk band incident to which I admitted fault and accepted correction) Things you do not know nor could you, yet you judge what I would do. You unlike God do not know the heart or mind of a man.
I have given what my response would be. Had such an event occur at my church. I would, likely not know if it did happen nor would I care unless it was brought to my attention that it offended someone. To which I would say to them that they need to apologize for the crass answer they gave, and if better explanation can't be given, those type of events shouldn't go on anymore.

Yes, but of course, all others are judging, but not you. Funny thing, you're judging me, yet you don't judge, you're exempt from this in your own eyes.

I'm not going at this in blind faith, but by your expressed behavior, so let me set that part straight.

Your language above proves it. You feel the "behavior" shouldn't happen anymore, you then list reasons that show you would in fact be offended or you wouldn't have your rules.

I believe you'd split a church over it by expressing concern for not being invited to a party, something so callow and petty. This is what "churches" have become here.

You also stated how you were invited to a party, because you think it's right to invite every single person, which shows you think it's wrong if they aren't. That is exactly what a person does to show how they would be offended. They have their list of rules of what they think is fair because they are so important, and if not met it's wrong and we have an offense. This is our society, offended over anything, and the church is conforming to the worlds model. Well, some churches.

You're offended and you've offered judgment on the issue, that's a plain fact.

But I digress, you can get your last word in.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Lol,
the lesson learned was the point. To be careful in your response to people who you may have offended.
Be gentle with them and give the best answer you can. What would it have harmed to care about their concerns?
Pastor Dave was right.

well, the problem is the way you addressed the woman who wanted to ask questions

you refer to her a well known nitpicker. I think you need to deal with that. if you forgive someone, you are not going to continue to address them that way

I actually think your 'feelings' regarding the op are in the way and you take offence

of course you will tell me I am off base...but the facts just jump out if someone has experience with dealing with people


especially 'church' people. so many seem to jump at the chance to declare themselves offended

I think you need to deal with your own feelings. cause they are causing you to be way too quick to think you have some right to judge anything in this matter

how do you feel right now? think about that

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Who have I judged? And with what judgement. To say a person did a thing that they did do is not judgement. They used church community property and facilities for private use and offended a member of their church. To which they should give an apology, not dismiss , and be more careful about in the future.

oh man. blind spot alert! blind spot alert!

no one owes that woman an apology and you WERE NOT THERE so why are you judging ?

you do know the other party has just as much say in the matter? yet you go on and on and on as though you were the judge of the matter

basic New Testament 101

 

[Locoponydirtman]

well, the problem is the way you addressed the woman who wanted to ask questions

you refer to her a well known nitpicker. I think you need to deal with that. if you forgive someone, you are not going to continue to address them that way

I actually think your 'feelings' regarding the op are in the way and you take offence

of course you will tell me I am off base...but the facts just jump out if someone has experience with dealing with people


especially 'church' people. so many seem to jump at the chance to declare themselves offended

I think you need to deal with your own feelings. cause they are causing you to be way too quick to think you have some right to judge anything in this matter

how do you feel right now? think about that

You'll have to forgive me because I don't know how to do the answer between the quotes thing as some of you guys do.
At least you're honest and sincere.
I will see if I can answer this one paragraph at a time.

Yes there was a problem with the way that I addressed the woman who had questions at the time and the pastor corrected me and the whole band and I was in and rightfully so.

As for calling her a well-known nitpicker, this happened more than 20 years ago. Sorry that I used that term. I was simply referring to the personality type for the purpose of making a point. I certainly was not trying to do her any harm I haven't even seen her or heard from her in many years. But if it seems so I do apologize.

As far as my feelings about the original post is answered in my first post. Which is the if you bother offends you procedure. I believe it's post #2.

Agreed it's not hard to find a church person who is offended.
I am not offended or I wouldn't discuss this with you any further.

And you are right. I have now right to pass judgement in this situation. She came with a problem the answer is in the Bible in Mathew 18: starting in verse 15 I think. I sometimes transpose numbers.

As for the last question how I feel right now. Or after reading your post.
I don't much consider feelings a thing that requires much response. I you are asking me, if I am responding out of anger. The answer I no. I'm not even a little bit angry. I would like to hope that I wouldn't respond on a post in anger but I can't promise that.

Kind of a funny saying that my buddies and I bat back and forth at each other when we think the other is in their feelings, we say, "your feelings are stupid and don't matter". " What matters is truth". I don't think I will ever use that here. But it's funny when you say it to someone you are close enough to say it to.

 

[Lighthearted]

Hi all.
Ive just posted this in the Bible Forum but just realised this may be the right place. My apologies.

Not long ago I discovered through Facebook that a birthday and farewell party was held in my local church.
One of the elders and his wife decided to do this for their 18 year old daughter.
Most of the church members do not know it as they werent invited and nothing was announed in the announcements on Sunday morning.
I have to admit that my first reaccion was hurt as I wasnt invited. Then focusing on the photos, I noticed that the other 2 elders and most of the deacons including their famlies were there. Family memebers and friends realated to the 18 year old from church and people who are not from our church, but mostly among the guests were members of this church. About 40 to 50 people assisted. Our church has around 100 members. It was obvious a private party and not for all church members. Not a church thing, but celebrated inside the local church.
Im not against celebrations at church. There have been farewell parties before where the whole church was invited to join in or at least a whole part of a church like the womans group or youth group etc...but this case is different as the criteria for selecting the guests had to do with the type of relationship the 18 year old and her family have in church and out of church.
Honestly, I find this has a lack of respect for the rest of the members who arent aware that these things happen without them knowing. Not just because its the whole church who looks after the church and sustains it economically (water, electrisity, maintenance etc..) but the fact that there are people, including the elders who use the church without the consent of the rest.
I accedently found out through Facebook but others also found out through different means. there were family members of the 18 year old (cousins) who go to church who werent invited and also felt left out.

Ive spoken to the mother of this 18 year old how I felt. That this is a lack of respect to the rest of the church and that we shouldnt use the church for our own private and pesonal things as this is a misuse of the church and people can feel left out. That if its a church thing great but private parties and stuff should be celebrated elsewhere. We gotta divide what is of church matter and what is of personal use.
Her response was that we all see things differently but these things will continue to happen.

Im I being unreasonable? Its not the only case and Im wondering how many other similar things are taking place...
Knowing this, even though I might get invited one day I will not accept the invitation to respect the rest of the uninvited church members.

Has anybody here had a similar situation? Isnt this abuse of authority and favouritism?

It just seems wrong....

I know many churches that rent out the fellowship areas of their church to it's members.

Personally I see nothing wrong with it. Perhaps asking why these folks didn't invite the entire congregation isn't as important as asking yourself why YOU have such an issue with it? I'm sure the church would allow any members to use the same space without telling YOU who YOU can and can't invite to a party YOU are paying for.

I don't see this as abuse of authority or playing favorites on their part. I kinda see this as a YOU, YOU, YOU thing. When you make others peoples lives and choices about yourself...you set yourself up for disappointment and bitterness.

Do you think God is concerned about these people using the facilities or your actions and the feelings you have in your heart toward them?

 

[presidente]

I think you are being unreasonable.

Why don't you ask the elders if other people in the church can use the facilities in a similar way?

Does the church charge members to use facilities for weddings? If not, I don't think you have any kind of case for them being 'unfair'. If they do and the family paid for it, you don't have a case either. And of course, there could be some clean-up expenses associated with weddings, too, that they charge for that they would not charge for a smaller party in the fellowship hall.

Even if they had never allowed anyone else to use the facilities, why would it bother you?

Why not just be happy? If you need a place for a party, you can remind the elders of their party and ask to use the facility?

Sharing communally held space to make life better for the group is not an evil thing is it?

 

[presidente]

Their behavior caused an offence. Paul wrote that he would rather not eat anything than to cause an offense, and while he was talking about Christian liberty, the idea applies here. They took liberty with the church facility, and caused an offense

In some cases 'offend' means fall into sin. It's not like they were tempting the OP to commit a sin, or had any way of knowing the situation could cause her to be tempted to sin or be bitter toward others. No natural way at least, unless they had some kind of supernatural revelation or something like that.

 

[presidente]

I used the fellowship hall of a church I used to go to for a family party and did not invite the church to come. I think I paid $50 or something like that for it. This was several years ago.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You'll have to forgive me because I don't know how to do the answer between the quotes thing as some of you guys do.
At least you're honest and sincere.
I will see if I can answer this one paragraph at a time.

Yes there was a problem with the way that I addressed the woman who had questions at the time and the pastor corrected me and the whole band and I was in and rightfully so.

As for calling her a well-known nitpicker, this happened more than 20 years ago. Sorry that I used that term. I was simply referring to the personality type for the purpose of making a point. I certainly was not trying to do her any harm I haven't even seen her or heard from her in many years. But if it seems so I do apologize.

As far as my feelings about the original post is answered in my first post. Which is the if you bother offends you procedure. I believe it's post #2.

Agreed it's not hard to find a church person who is offended.
I am not offended or I wouldn't discuss this with you any further.

And you are right. I have now right to pass judgement in this situation. She came with a problem the answer is in the Bible in Mathew 18: starting in verse 15 I think. I sometimes transpose numbers.

As for the last question how I feel right now. Or after reading your post.
I don't much consider feelings a thing that requires much response. I you are asking me, if I am responding out of anger. The answer I no. I'm not even a little bit angry. I would like to hope that I wouldn't respond on a post in anger but I can't promise that.

Kind of a funny saying that my buddies and I bat back and forth at each other when we think the other is in their feelings, we say, "your feelings are stupid and don't matter". " What matters is truth". I don't think I will ever use that here. But it's funny when you say it to someone you are close enough to say it to.

well, I brought the name you called her to your attention because I think I have more to deal with if I think of certain people who have badly wronged me; it appeared to me it might be so for you in this instance as well. it didn't offend me you called her that..I just thought you might still resent somewhat...but that is not between you and I

haha...if I would start listing the things that have offended me in church, we could be here all night. but I value peace above all and I don't want negative feelings so I have dealt and continue to deal even with past things. we all have 'offended and been offended' and sometimes I think of what Paul said...in saying he only wants to know Christ in people. we are all from such different backgrounds and places...friction is bound to happen..in church and here for sure..so, we either get negative and bitter or we deal and forgive (that can be a process) and keep heading towards Christ and what lies ahead

as far as feelings go, they are important but if they control your life, it can cause chaos. truth, is kind of like the anchor we pitch overboard to hold our feelings in place.

anyway...thanks for taking the time

I think I made myself clear that I think the op does not have a case but should be at peace and forgive if she needs to and accept that sometimes, we don't get to have the ending we think we deserve