Two posters say their opinion is from God, yet disagree. Now what?

[lightbearer]

So here are the literal words from the Hebrew order:

לְתֹורָ֖ה וְלִתְעוּדָ֑ה אִם־לֹ֤א יֹֽאמְרוּ֙ כַּדָּבָ֣ר הַזֶּ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר אֵֽין־לֹ֖ו שָֽׁחַר׃

TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY. IF NOT THEY DO SPEAK ACCORDING TO WORD, THIS [IT IS] BECAUSE [THERE IS] NO IN THEM LIGHT.

Did God tell you that? lol

LOL?
Mocking?
To answer your question, No it is a objective fact to which is easily substantiated.

The NIV is INVARIABLY false, and the KJV is INVARIABLY true.

In regards to Is. 8:20 they are both saying the same thing. The premise is there, they only differ in there wording. The NIV is paraphrasing rather than translating.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isa 8:20)

Isaiah 8:20
Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

 

[Endoscopy]

There is a big difference in, I read the Bible and feel the Holy Spirit led me to view it this way (vs) My great great grand pappy, my great grand pappy, my grand pappy, and my pappy all believe this scripture means it this way. And that is good enough for me.

In a sense, we do get some understanding from God because the first idea that pops up we go into interpretation by revelation mode.

My goal is when something seems to appear I never noticed before in scripture, I begin asking God to make this become clearer to me and then I wait upon God to see if something else I notice that I had never noticed before. I have been asked to teach before and I always begin with this:

1. Need pen and paper
2. Every scripture reference I use you, copy it down
3. Jot a quick note based upon how I believe this passage of scripture is interpreted
4. Go home and read my scripture references and definitions and see if God gives you the same meaning
5. Do Not take my word as it is solid gold - challenge me by you actually doing some studying yourself.
6. If you believe there is something you can add based upon what God has revealed to you, SHARE IT WITH ME
7. I am a student learning God's Word the same as all of you

You might want to invest in a systematic theology book. It goes issue by issue discussing the issue and lists all of the verses that are relevant to the issue. The discussion wiil be centered around the denomination the writers are part of. There are several of them each with the text biased to the authors theology. Pick one that conforms to your theology. It is made known in the preface usually.

 

[lightbearer]

There is a big difference in, I read the Bible and feel the Holy Spirit led me to view it this way (vs) My great great grand pappy, my great grand pappy, my grand pappy, and my pappy all believe this scripture means it this way. And that is good enough for me.

In a sense, we do get some understanding from God because the first idea that pops up we go into interpretation by revelation mode.

My goal is when something seems to appear I never noticed before in scripture, I begin asking God to make this become clearer to me and then I wait upon God to see if something else I notice that I had never noticed before. I have been asked to teach before and I always begin with this:

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
(1Jn 2:27 KJV)

But.... When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
(Eph 4:8-12 KJV)

 

[Endoscopy]

Which is correct, the KJV or the NIV?

Isaiah 8:20
Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

The NIV is a modern translation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Version

The KJV is an old translation from 1611. 400 years of language changes and other issues. Below are many of the issues.

KJV Issues
For example, because of the changes in the English language, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:

Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples, ….

The King James translators also translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for thinking don’t actually exist:

unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Isa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).

Moreover,, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers: Phrases that no longer make sense:

ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);

And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)

And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)


Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers to a man who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
(This defines the person as male)

 

[presidente]

Paul wrote that if Christ were not risen, he (or 'we') would have been a false witness of God for testifying that God had raised him from the dead.

The implication is that bearing false witness of God is a bad thing. We shoild e careful saying God did this or God did that. Not only should we be wary of false prophecy-- where someone said 'God says' when He did not say it. But we should also be careful not to say-- God did. Such and such or God did such and such when it is not the case.

I heard of a preacher, for example, who told grieving parents of a dead child tgat he took their daughter because he wanted to pick the prettiest daisies to be with Him.

Maybe some peole think that comment is sweet and comforting. But it could also confuse people ir temp rhem to blame God or view God wrongly.

But wven more impotrantly, if it is not true that God took her with that motivation the preacher is bearing false witness against God.

In our humor we should have the fear of the Lord. I heard a joke once that implies tgat God would rather build bridge from Hawaii to California than try to explain women to a man. It implied tgat God could not do so and put man-made words in God's mouth.

There was also the God Speaks campaign, where even churches would attribute cheesy statements to God like "Don't make me come down there." and put them on billboards. let us be be reverent in our humor. One church sign said that God said Well, you asked for a sign."

Let us be reverent inbour humor and not prophesy falselt as a joke. Let us not attribute thoughts, characteristics, or words to God that He has not revealed.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Which is correct, the KJV or the NIV?

Isaiah 8:20
Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

Personally I think the NIV or any paraphrase is inadequate for bible STUDY. NIV is less offensive. I prefer using the NKJV or the NASB.

 

[Endoscopy]

Paul wrote that if Christ were not risen, he (or 'we') would have been a false witness of God for testifying that God had raised him from the dead.

The implication is that bearing false witness of God is a bad thing. We shoild e careful saying God did this or God did that. Not only should we be wary of false prophecy-- where someone said 'God says' when He did not say it. But we should also be careful not to say-- God did. Such and such or God did such and such when it is not the case.

I heard of a preacher, for example, who told grieving parents of a dead child tgat he took their daughter because he wanted to pick the prettiest daisies to be with Him.

Maybe some peole think that comment is sweet and comforting. But it could also confuse people ir temp rhem to blame God or view God wrongly.

But wven more impotrantly, if it is not true that God took her with that motivation the preacher is bearing false witness against God.

In our humor we should have the fear of the Lord. I heard a joke once that implies tgat God would rather build bridge from Hawaii to California than try to explain women to a man. It implied tgat God could not do so and put man-made words in God's mouth.

There was also the God Speaks campaign, where even churches would attribute cheesy statements to God like "Don't make me come down there." and put them on billboards. let us be be reverent in our humor. One church sign said that God said Well, you asked for a sign."

Let us be reverent inbour humor and not prophesy falselt as a joke. Let us not attribute thoughts, characteristics, or words to God that He has not revealed.

When the Bible talks about taking God's name in vain it means saying God proclaimed something he didn't. That's a big no no!!

 

[Endoscopy]

Personally I think the NIV or any paraphrase is inadequate for bible STUDY. NIV is less offensive. I prefer using the NKJV or the NASB.

NIV is not a paraphrase!!! Try again.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Version

The NKJV has some of the warts the KJV has. They fixed most but not all of them.

Amazing the misinformation floating around!!

 

[GraceAndTruth]

NIV is not a paraphrase!!! Try again.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Version

The NKJV has some of the warts the KJV has. They fixed most but not all of them.

Amazing the misinformation floating around!!

The NIV is a thought for thought translation while the NKJV and the NASB are word for word translations. I prefer those.

 

[Endoscopy]

The NIV is a thought for thought translation while the NKJV and the NASB are word for word translations. I prefer those.

It is obvious you didn't read what I posted about the number of translators and how they diligently worked to make it be faithful to the original language.

Where does all this garbage come from!!

 

[GraceAndTruth]

It is obvious you didn't read what I posted about the number of translators and how they diligently worked to make it be faithful to the original language.

Where does all this garbage come from!!

The same place yours come from......the internet!

 

[Endoscopy]

S

The same place yours come from......the internet!

So you believe everything you see on the internet? Idiotic!!

 

[marinerscatch]

You might want to invest in a systematic theology book. It goes issue by issue discussing the issue and lists all of the verses that are relevant to the issue. The discussion wiil be centered around the denomination the writers are part of. There are several of them each with the text biased to the authors theology. Pick one that conforms to your theology. It is made known in the preface usually.

I have no theology. My family heritage is somewhat interesting to me. I have background in Judaism, Catholicism, and Protestantism. Three different Bible views concerning the God we serve. I do not personally ever reference anything from the Catholic point of view since I disagree with the majority of it. I do use the Hebrew texts because they have value explaining the word of God from the point of view of the Law. (and NO, I do not follow the Law). The majority of what I follow is from the Gospels. I use both the KJV and the CJB Bibles to get a much closer view because to me the Greek is majorly for Paul. And I do not buy the "Grace" message that today's churches use from literally misinterpreting Paul and the Book of Hebrews. My walk in God concentrates on the life, the words, the commands of God in the flesh (Yeshua the Christ). And from Him, I know I am saved by the absolute Mercy of God which has been kindled until the Tribulation when He will finally release His "Wrath."

I am not about denominations although I do feel the Pentecostal view is more accurate than anything else. I love how they are free in their spirit to worship our Amazing God. I love how they are not afraid to utilize the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I do not however get involved in the foolishness of how one should dress, one should act, one should eat, one should be baptized. We have enough examples in scripture that I am comfortable knowing I am 100% saved!!

 

[Endoscopy]

I make sure I don't fall for garbage by looking at several sites.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

S
So you believe everything you see on the internet? Idiotic!!

Being a bit snotty aren't you? Yet you never said where you get your information. I just don't think a bible version that has to be updated for corrections is a choice for me. How many more times are NIV people going to update since 1968? And I do have an NIV in my "library" of bibles which also includes an RSV and an OLD KJV I've had for .......well just say a long time.

This is America....we all get to pick the bible we prefer.

 

[lightbearer]

NIV is not a paraphrase!!! Try again.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Version

The NKJV has some of the warts the KJV has. They fixed most but not all of them.

Amazing the misinformation floating around!!

The NIV is a thought for thought translation while the NKJV and the NASB are word for word translations. I prefer those.

A thought for thought translation is a paraphrase. What one thinks is being implied by the text. I know you that. This post is for those who don't.

All translations have issues. It is up to us to dig deep enough to see them.

 

[Endoscopy]

Y

I have no theology. My family heritage is somewhat interesting to me. I have background in Judaism, Catholicism, and Protestantism. Three different Bible views concerning the God we serve. I do not personally ever reference anything from the Catholic point of view since I disagree with the majority of it. I do use the Hebrew texts because they have value explaining the word of God from the point of view of the Law. (and NO, I do not follow the Law). The majority of what I follow is from the Gospels. I use both the KJV and the CJB Bibles to get a much closer view because to me the Greek is majorly for Paul. And I do not buy the "Grace" message that today's churches use from literally misinterpreting Paul and the Book of Hebrews. My walk in God concentrates on the life, the words, the commands of God in the flesh (Yeshua the Christ). And from Him, I know I am saved by the absolute Mercy of God which has been kindled until the Tribulation when He will finally release His "Wrath."

I am not about denominations although I do feel the Pentecostal view is more accurate than anything else. I love how they are free in their spirit to worship our Amazing God. I love how they are not afraid to utilize the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I do not however get involved in the foolishness of how one should dress, one should act, one should eat, one should be baptized. We have enough examples in scripture that I am comfortable knowing I am 100% saved!!

You ignore the fact that to understand an issue you have to read in context all verses on the issue. Looks to me like you don't even attempt to get even a partial list!!

 

[Endoscopy]

Being a bit snotty aren't you? Yet you never said where you get your information. I just don't think a bible version that has to be updated for corrections is a choice for me. How many more times are NIV people going to update since 1968? And I do have an NIV in my "library" of bibles which also includes an RSV and an OLD KJV I've had for .......well just say a long time.

This is America....we all get to pick the bible we prefer.

I have a couple of Bibles around the house that I ignore!! I use my smartphone and tablet with the browser set to biblegateway.com and then pick book and chapter. Then I go through several translations. AMPC, NIV, ESV, and KJV I use the most. Sometimes KJV is humorously wrong with its out of date language. What is an ouches?? KJV word!! Got curious and looked it up.

Ouches definition, a clasp, buckle, or brooch, especially one worn for ornament.

 

[GardenofWeeden]

Our positions on these forums are our opinions on the topics. If my opinion starts coming from God, that sort of takes my free will away from me, to form my own opinions. So when someone says their position comes directly from God, I take it with a grain of salt knowing God isn't going to take their free will from them, so their opinion isn't from God...it's their interpretation of something God led them to see at best.

 

[Angela53510]

The NIV is a thought for thought translation while the NKJV and the NASB are word for word translations. I prefer those.

So you have been told. Plus sources like Blue Letter Bible reinforce this.

I have studied both Greek and Hebrew. It is not even possible to do word for word from Greek, ever. The word order, grammar make that impossible. Although Martin Luther's updated German follows Greek word for word, because the grammar is so similar.

Hebrew is more similar sometimes in word order, but the verbal system is totally different. Have you ever heard of the Qal? Or Nifil? I didn't think so, those are verb forms. And a bunch more!

Blue Letter Bible puts down the KJV, then messes totally with the word order of the original languages, by making it follow 16th century English! I'm on my way to church, but maybe later I will show you an actual translation, and how impossible it is for ANY translation to be word for word.

You have been fed a lie, sadly! My Greek professor, Bill Mounce, used to go bonkers about this nonsense! He said he hated that people with no training in the original languages were told this lie about word for word being possible!