Does God ever cancel covenant promises?

[Blik]

Paul said God does not cancel promises, Paul said that God was true.

Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

God promised blessings for law obedience on Mt Sinai. This promise was for law obedience, and was conditional and was given to the Hebrew nation. Later, God gave a new promise that was better than the one on Mt Sinai.

Some people think we should not believe in anything given to the Hebrews, they aren’t meant for gentiles. Others say God has always offered His promises to all and they base that on such as Lev_19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

God has made many covenants with us. When God gave us the new covenant, we were told it was better than the old covenant. Many people believe this reads that God cancelled the old covenant, but those people don’t say what they think God promised that was cancelled. God can’t have cancelled salvation for law obedience for God never offered that. No scripture tells us that was a blessing of law obedience. If it did it would mean that at sometime man was equal with God and could behave perfectly, that has never happened.

Salvation has always been through grace. My E-Sword tells me there are 37 verses in the OT speaking of grace.

Some believe it means that we are under new ways of God, the old God is gone. Scripture tells us that God fulfilled what was created, that would not be so if we are under a new way for God to be. Christ said He changed nothing.

In the book of Hebrews we are told that some of the old covenant is outdated so it is of no use to us anymore. What is it in the old covenants that is of no use to us anymore?

 

[JaumeJ]

Paul said God does not cancel promises, Paul said that God was true.

Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

God promised blessings for law obedience on Mt Sinai. This promise was for law obedience, and was conditional and was given to the Hebrew nation. Later, God gave a new promise that was better than the one on Mt Sinai.

Some people think we should not believe in anything given to the Hebrews, they aren’t meant for gentiles. Others say God has always offered His promises to all and they base that on such as Lev_19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

God has made many covenants with us. When God gave us the new covenant, we were told it was better than the old covenant. Many people believe this reads that God cancelled the old covenant, but those people don’t say what they think God promised that was cancelled. God can’t have cancelled salvation for law obedience for God never offered that. No scripture tells us that was a blessing of law obedience. If it did it would mean that at sometime man was equal with God and could behave perfectly, that has never happened.

Salvation has always been through grace. My E-Sword tells me there are 37 verses in the OT speaking of grace.

Some believe it means that we are under new ways of God, the old God is gone. Scripture tells us that God fulfilled what was created, that would not be so if we are under a new way for God to be. Christ said He changed nothing.

In the book of Hebrews we are told that some of the old covenant is outdated so it is of no use to us anymore. What is it in the old covenants that is of no use to us anymore?

Praise God, what a wonderfully worded way you have here. I would like to be as eloquent.

 

[BenFTW]

You aren't under the old covenant, so how is it that you conclude God canceled something (a promise) with/to you? You are under the new covenant, with better promises (that He is faithful to fulfill). Your interests should then be understanding the covenant you are under.

I do recall, however, certain promises from the Old covenant that carried over to the New covenant; one is honoring your parents leading to long life (Ephesians 6:2). How many promises in the Torah are promises to believers (still effectual or renewed in the new covenant)?

@Blik this could be an interesting discussion. I know in Proverbs, for example, it speaks of giving to the poor is like lending to the Lord and He shall repay you. Is this covenant based, or is this more so a... spiritual principle or law? Kind of like sowing and reaping (sparingly or bountifully).

We'd have to discern which promises are to us, or understand which principles are still in effect.

 

[JaumeJ]

You aren't under the old covenant, so how is it that you conclude God canceled something (a promise) with/to you? You are under the new covenant, with better promises (that He is faithful to fulfill). Your interests should then be understanding the covenant you are under.

I do recall, however, certain promises from the Old covenant that carried over to the New covenant; one is honoring your parents leading to long life (Ephesians 6:2). How many promises in the Torah are promises to believers (still effectual or renewed in the new covenant)?

@Blik this could be an interesting discussion. I know in Proverbs, for example, it speaks of giving to the poor is like lending to the Lord and He shall repay you. Is this covenant based, or is this more so a... spiritual principle or law? Kind of like sowing and reaping (sparingly or bountifully).

We'd have to discern which promises are to us, or understand which principles are still in effect.

Please, truly for th sake of Jesus Christ, do not even hint at the law being obsolete. Yes, Jesus fulfilled most of them but He left to be observed all of those which reman that make up waht is Love. Do not say you love and deny Jesus Christ teaches not to teach against the laws as they stand now.

No man who is saved by the Blood of the Lamb of god may be called under the law simply because he obeys Jesus Christ's teaching.

God, learn directly from Jesus, He has invited all to do so. Until hyou know what He taches, do not peddle this under the law nonsense to people, save by Him and obedient to His teaaching……..this is not of Christ, Yeshua.

 

[OneFaith]

Paul said God does not cancel promises, Paul said that God was true.

Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

God promised blessings for law obedience on Mt Sinai. This promise was for law obedience, and was conditional and was given to the Hebrew nation. Later, God gave a new promise that was better than the one on Mt Sinai.

Some people think we should not believe in anything given to the Hebrews, they aren’t meant for gentiles. Others say God has always offered His promises to all and they base that on such as Lev_19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

God has made many covenants with us. When God gave us the new covenant, we were told it was better than the old covenant. Many people believe this reads that God cancelled the old covenant, but those people don’t say what they think God promised that was cancelled. God can’t have cancelled salvation for law obedience for God never offered that. No scripture tells us that was a blessing of law obedience. If it did it would mean that at sometime man was equal with God and could behave perfectly, that has never happened.

Salvation has always been through grace. My E-Sword tells me there are 37 verses in the OT speaking of grace.

Some believe it means that we are under new ways of God, the old God is gone. Scripture tells us that God fulfilled what was created, that would not be so if we are under a new way for God to be. Christ said He changed nothing.

In the book of Hebrews we are told that some of the old covenant is outdated so it is of no use to us anymore. What is it in the old covenants that is of no use to us anymore?

Let me explain by an illustration. Say there are two groups of people- one group wearing yellow shirts, the other group wearing black shirts. God pronounces that those wearing yellow shirts are His people, and that those wearing black shirts are not His people. The yellow shirts do good, the black shirts do evil. Years go by and God sends His Son. The yellow shirt people kill God's Son, so He turns their shirts black and they are no longer His people. Meanwhile, those who were wearing black shirts before the Son arrived started doing good, they believed in the Son and started following Him. Because of this God turned their shirts yellow. Now those whose shirts used to be yellow before the arrival of the Son say they are still God's people, but they are not. But of few of them who recognised this humbled themselves and repented. They took off their black shirts and put on yellow shirts (putting on Christ in baptism). Now once again these select few are yellow shirts, but now most of the yellow shirts are those who used to be black shirts (Gentiles). They look at a scripture that reads "Yellow-shirted people are My people and will inherit such and such." The black-shirted people (who used to be yellow-shirted say "That means us." No it does not. All those who die wearing yellow shirts, whether from the old testament or new testament, will inherit heaven. When the Israelites killed the Son of God, God took away their right to be His people by physical means, now you can only be Israel by spiritual means. So the promise is still for Israel, but those who think they are israel because of a physical nationality are deceiving themselves. Yes, God still keeps His promise to Israel, but Israel is now spiritual, no longer physical.

 

[Hevosmies]

Depends on the promise. Some are CONDITIONAL. Some are NOT

 

[foolishone]

There is God's law, Mosaic law, fulfilled law, Noah's law. Things meant for Jews and things meant for gentiles. Read Galatians 2 very slowly and in context. I've read Galatians over 40 times and then this year boom! Galations 2 made it all clear.

 

[Grandpa]

Galatians 4:21-30
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

 

[foolishone]

Let me explain by an illustration. Say there are two groups of people- one group wearing yellow shirts, the other group wearing black shirts. God pronounces that those wearing yellow shirts are His people, and that those wearing black shirts are not His people. The yellow shirts do good, the black shirts do evil. Years go by and God sends His Son. The yellow shirt people kill God's Son, so He turns their shirts black and they are no longer His people. Meanwhile, those who were wearing black shirts before the Son arrived started doing good, they believed in the Son and started following Him. Because of this God turned their shirts yellow. Now those whose shirts used to be yellow before the arrival of the Son say they are still God's people, but they are not. But of few of them who recognised this humbled themselves and repented. They took off their black shirts and put on yellow shirts (putting on Christ in baptism). Now once again these select few are yellow shirts, but now most of the yellow shirts are those who used to be black shirts (Gentiles). They look at a scripture that reads "Yellow-shirted people are My people and will inherit such and such." The black-shirted people (who used to be yellow-shirted say "That means us." No it does not. All those who die wearing yellow shirts, whether from the old testament or new testament, will inherit heaven. When the Israelites killed the Son of God, God took away their right to be His people by physical means, now you can only be Israel by spiritual means. So the promise is still for Israel, but those who think they are israel because of a physical nationality are deceiving themselves. Yes, God still keeps His promise to Israel, but Israel is now spiritual, no longer physical.

Read Romans 11. Paul has already dealt with replacement believers there.

 

[Grandpa]

Read Romans 11. Paul has already dealt with replacement believers there.

Romans 11 says pretty much the same thing OneFaith has said.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

These are the people who used to wear yellow shirts but were turned black. Then they were turned yellow again by the Grace of God.

Same as everyone else who wears the yellow shirts.

 

[Dino246]

Paul said God does not cancel promises, Paul said that God was true.

Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

God promised blessings for law obedience on Mt Sinai. This promise was for law obedience, and was conditional and was given to the Hebrew nation. Later, God gave a new promise that was better than the one on Mt Sinai.

The promises made under the Law are conditional upon adherence to the Law.. all of it.

Some people think we should not believe in anything given to the Hebrews, they aren’t meant for gentiles. Others say God has always offered His promises to all and they base that on such as Lev_19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

As another has said, we need discernment. Your argument is taking a turn here, moving toward generalization. The Leviticus passage was not meant for Christians; it was meant for foreigners who wanted to join themselves with physical Israel. Christians are under the blood of the new covenant, not the old.

God has made many covenants with us. When God gave us the new covenant, we were told it was better than the old covenant. Many people believe this reads that God cancelled the old covenant, but those people don’t say what they think God promised that was cancelled. God can’t have cancelled salvation for law obedience for God never offered that. No scripture tells us that was a blessing of law obedience. If it did it would mean that at sometime man was equal with God and could behave perfectly, that has never happened.

God didn't make the covenants (plural) with "us". He made them with Israel. Paul emphasized this in Romans 9:4 "the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises." Theirs are the promises... not "ours are the promises". By assuming that the Sinaitic covenant is with "us", you are claiming that Scripture says something it doesn't.

Salvation has always been through grace. My E-Sword tells me there are 37 verses in the OT speaking of grace. Some believe it means that we are under new ways of God, the old God is gone. Scripture tells us that God fulfilled what was created, that would not be so if we are under a new way for God to be. Christ said He changed nothing.

I don't know who claims that "the old God is gone"; that's a bad misread of Scripture and has nothing to do with sound exegesis. It's not good practice to claim that sound doctrine is merely the opposite of what ignorant people claim.

In the book of Hebrews we are told that some of the old covenant is outdated so it is of no use to us anymore. What is it in the old covenants that is of no use to us anymore?

Your paraphrase undermines your assertion. Please give the exact passage where this is stated.

To your question, a lot! Animal sacrifices are outdated, as is stoning of lawbreakers, tests for unfaithful wives, periods of cleansing after childbirth, menstruation, or seminal emission, temple tax, Levitical priesthood, and much more.

There isn't a single verse in all of Scripture that supports the Law being broken into bits and pieces, some of which are continuing and some of which aren't. The Law is a unit; you break one ordinance, you have broken the Law. James explains this clearly in 2:10-11.

We are either under the Law as a whole or we are not under the Law at all.

 

[OneFaith]

Read Romans 11. Paul has already dealt with replacement believers there.

Exactly, it says that they can be grafted back into their own vine- which means they got kicked out. They must be grafted in the same way Gentiles are. But Gentiles must not say they can't be grafted in, because they are the original.

Let me put it another way...

Israel- The promise is for Israel. Yeah, but who is Israel? Is the definition of Israel the world’s definition (physical nationality) or God’s definition (spiritual nationality)? They used to be both- the physical people of Israel were also God’s people. But they are no longer, even though they still go by the name according to worldly definition. It used to be that God’s people were physically born into that nationality. But now one must be spiritually born into the nation of Israel (baptised into Christ). So today if someone is physically born an Israelite yet refuses to get baptised into Christ and refuses to follow Christ, they deceive themselves- they are not an Israelite by God’s definition, and therefore will not receive any Israelite promise.

 

[MattforJesus]

I do not believe that God cancels covenants, for it is a covenant.

Like marriage is a covenant, and God said what He has put together let no person put asunder, unless one cheats on the other, then the person that cheated broke the covenant, and the covenant can be voided, or reconciled, and if reconciled it is back to normal, and cannot be broken, for the person is forgiven.

God does not break His covenant, but we can break the covenant by not obeying God, which the Bible says do not depart from the living God by the deceitfulness of sins, and the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, that those that name the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

For to have a relationship with God means to be compatible with the operation of His Spirit, and God hates sin, and says that our sins is what separates us from Him.

And like a man and a woman that are married are one flesh, when you are saved, and receive the Spirit, then you are one with God, and He is not going to change.

God said be holy, as I am holy, and to be compatible with God you have to abstain from sin by the Spirit, and be clean, for God is not going to change to be filthy according to your sins of the flesh.

For if two become one then they are the same in agreement, and behavior, so either it is we become like God hating sin, and not doing sin by the Spirit, or God becomes like us and filthy, which we know God is not going to become like us and be filthy, so we have to be clean, and hate sin, and not do sin, led by the Spirit, to be one with God.

God did not make a covenant with Adam and Eve, but told them to repopulate the earth, so the flood happened because there was no covenant to break.

Then God made the first covenant with Noah, and said He would never flood the earth again.

God does not break His unconditional covenants, although there are promises of God that depend on the response of the person, like Israel would be protected from their enemies if they obeyed God, and the truth, but if they did not their enemies would be able to overtake them, which we read in the Bible.

But it is an unconditional covenant with the nation of Israel, and God will restore them in the future, but with the individual person, Jew, it depended on whether they obeyed truth, or not.

And it is an unconditional covenant of salvation, for there will be many people with God, and His kingdom established, the New Jerusalem, but it depends on the individual person on whether they obeyed truth, or not.

For the Bible says that it is the same in the New Testament, as the Old Testament, which the Bible says if a person does not continue in the goodness of God they will be cut off like the Jews in the Old Testament, and do not be like the Jews in the wilderness that sinned, which do not depart from the living God by the deceitfulness of sins.

 

[foolishone]

Exactly, it says that they can be grafted back into their own vine- which means they got kicked out. They must be grafted in the same way Gentiles are. But Gentiles must not say they can't be grafted in, because they are the original.

Let me put it another way...

Israel- The promise is for Israel. Yeah, but who is Israel? Is the definition of Israel the world’s definition (physical nationality) or God’s definition (spiritual nationality)? They used to be both- the physical people of Israel were also God’s people. But they are no longer, even though they still go by the name according to worldly definition. It used to be that God’s people were physically born into that nationality. But now one must be spiritually born into the nation of Israel (baptised into Christ). So today if someone is physically born an Israelite yet refuses to get baptised into Christ and refuses to follow Christ, they deceive themselves- they are not an Israelite by God’s definition, and therefore will not receive any Israelite promise.

I say read all of Romans 11.

Romans 11 says pretty much the same thing OneFaith has said.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

These are the people who used to wear yellow shirts but were turned black. Then they were turned yellow again by the Grace of God.

Same as everyone else who wears the yellow shirts.

Read all of it. Not just verse 5 and understand.

 

[pottersclay]

As far as I know when God made a covenant with anyone he never broke it or cancelled it.
If the covenant got defaulted it wasn't God who defaulted. He usually was the last Man standing ask Abraham. Lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Concerning covenants

Some were given for benefit of all (God told abraham in you shall all nations be blessed)
Some were given for some (God also told abraham your seed would inherit this land)
Some were made eternal (the land, and promise to all nations are eternal)
Some were temporary (the law was said to be there untl a person is led to christ, after which that person is no longer under law)
Some were fulfilled and another “better” covnant replaced it (think old law, vs new)

Mosaic law was an internal law. Given to the nation whcih was given land, So they can KNOW how well they are doing Gods will, which would bring blessings, or KNOW they were going against gods will, in which they were in danger of punishment. (Israel today is being punished because of her failure to keep mosaic law)

What we need to do is determine whch covenant, was given to wich group of people and why. We shoudl nto assume all laws or covenants were given to all people.

 

[foolishone]

Exactly, it says that they can be grafted back into their own vine- which means they got kicked out. They must be grafted in the same way Gentiles are. But Gentiles must not say they can't be grafted in, because they are the original.

Let me put it another way...

Israel- The promise is for Israel. Yeah, but who is Israel? Is the definition of Israel the world’s definition (physical nationality) or God’s definition (spiritual nationality)? They used to be both- the physical people of Israel were also God’s people. But they are no longer, even though they still go by the name according to worldly definition. It used to be that God’s people were physically born into that nationality. But now one must be spiritually born into the nation of Israel (baptised into Christ). So today if someone is physically born an Israelite yet refuses to get baptised into Christ and refuses to follow Christ, they deceive themselves- they are not an Israelite by God’s definition, and therefore will not receive any Israelite promise.

They did not get kicked out they were cut off for a reason and a purpose. And God was responsible for this. It was His plan for our gentile benefit and God will bring them back. They are still his people physically but currently spiritually blind for our sake. Until the fulness of the gentiles be come. He has more dealings with them to come spiritually and as a physical nation. When they as a nation receive their Messiah Yeshua they will be grafted back in to their olive tree. They are still chosen. verse 28,29. Currently God has chosen them to be blind. In the near future God has chosen them to be the focus of world events. That is already starting to happen. It is true that not all will repent but a remnant of true physical Israeli tribe and blood will receive their Messiah and be grafted back in to their natural tree. That whole tree will be in Christ neither Jew nor Gentile. God's one flock made up of two flocks that become one in Christ.

 

[foolishone]

Exactly, it says that they can be grafted back into their own vine- which means they got kicked out. They must be grafted in the same way Gentiles are. But Gentiles must not say they can't be grafted in, because they are the original.

Let me put it another way...

Israel- The promise is for Israel. Yeah, but who is Israel? Is the definition of Israel the world’s definition (physical nationality) or God’s definition (spiritual nationality)? They used to be both- the physical people of Israel were also God’s people. But they are no longer, even though they still go by the name according to worldly definition. It used to be that God’s people were physically born into that nationality. But now one must be spiritually born into the nation of Israel (baptised into Christ). So today if someone is physically born an Israelite yet refuses to get baptised into Christ and refuses to follow Christ, they deceive themselves- they are not an Israelite by God’s definition, and therefore will not receive any Israelite promise.

They did not get kicked out. Read all of Romans 11 together and understand what happen, why it happened, who caused it to happen, why He caused it to happen, and what will then happen.

 

[Blik]

How thoughtful these posts are. I don't see scripture backup for many beliefs presented, though.

I don't find scripture saying we are not under the old covenants, we are only under the new one.

I don't find that God does not see us as humans to be treated the same but one human a Jew and another a gentile. We are told he blessed the Hebrews that he created from gentiles with Abraham, but scripture states over and over that with God He sees people as ones who belong to Him through faith and people with no faith in God, He doesn't see humans as Jew/gentile. God doesn't make promises based on nationality.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him.

God is God, eternal and the same always. God is not new testament, old testament. A principle of God stated in the old testament is true of God without the limitations of time. As an example God requires innocent blood for forgiveness to be given. That is true from the time of Cain and Abel whose experiences show this to the time of Christ when He gave His innocent blood for our sins.

The phrase "under the law" seems to me to get pretty mixed up. If you are under the law you go to your behavior for salvation, if you are not under the law you go to Christ for salvation. It's meaning has nothing to do with obedience.
.

 

[BenFTW]

Please, truly for th sake of Jesus Christ, do not even hint at the law being obsolete. Yes, Jesus fulfilled most of them but He left to be observed all of those which reman that make up waht is Love. Do not say you love and deny Jesus Christ teaches not to teach against the laws as they stand now.

No man who is saved by the Blood of the Lamb of god may be called under the law simply because he obeys Jesus Christ's teaching.

God, learn directly from Jesus, He has invited all to do so. Until hyou know what He taches, do not peddle this under the law nonsense to people, save by Him and obedient to His teaaching……..this is not of Christ, Yeshua.

We can paint it very clearly. Would you rather have to be obedient to be blessed (and cursed for disobedience) or would you rather be in a covenant of grace (no merit) and let the promises of God in Christ Jesus be "Yes" and "Amen"? Surely the answer is obvious, and the distinction that there are two covenants is made clear.

I am not saying there is no moral obligation when I say we are not under the law, this you have falsely concluded. As Paul says, how can we who are dead to sin live therein? No longer slaves to sin but righteousness. We ought to not use our members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin, but instruments of righteousness unto God (Romans 6:13).

Why must Antinomianism be the cry (and accusation) against those who rightly divide God's word, and honor the work of Christ? There is no condemnation in Jesus Christ, where as the law was a ministry of condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:9). It was a school master, leading us to Christ. Revealing our inadequacy to meet God's standard of perfection and our necessity for Christ, our Savior. This reveals why righteousness, true righteousness from God, is imputed by faith. It is accredited.

Jesus took our sin (away) and gives us righteousness and justification before God.