WHO IS ENOCH AND WHAT DOES HE MEAN TO ME?

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louis said:
That's very good. The help the saints receive during the great tribulation appears in Daniel 11:34.
Nevertheless, Daniel 11:33 and 35 also show that many saints will be killed during this time as well.

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
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These are the exact texts I always have in mind, and why I do not understand why so many say there is some kind of pre-trib rapture………….My natural inclination of believe ahs always been should I live to see the Greatest Tribulation ever, I will live in it and die in it......so will all who believe the Word I think. Praise Jesus Christ, always.
 
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Deade said:
There is no taking people off the earth. When Christ comes back He will circle the earth for the resurrection of the elect dead and elect alive. Then He will set His feet down on the Mount of Olives fulfilling the prophecy:

Acts 1:11 "Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." :cool:
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Agreed; there is no taking people off the earth.
 
JaumeJ said:
These are the exact texts I always have in mind, and why I do not understand why so many say there is some kind of pre-trib rapture………….My natural inclination of believe ahs always been should I live to see the Greatest Tribulation ever, I will live in it and die in it......so will all who believe the Word I think. Praise Jesus Christ, always.
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My perspective of the rapture is a spiritual ascendance; and not a physical whisking of people off the earth.
I think the blessing the saints receive on day 1,335 in Daniel 12:12, some 45 days after commencing the destruction of the beasts system (Daniel 12:11 & 7:26), represents this greater illumination of the saints (their being caught up to God spiritually), while the rest of the world under the beasts system goes off into darkness (Is 60:2).

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Daniel 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
 
The understanding I have always believed at least determined to be true is that when Jesus appears on the clouds, though it says He will send His angels to collect those who sleep and then those who are quick is that we will all be transformed in the blinkk of an eye.

It would be a gory sight and thing to take corpses up to Him, and those who are quick are yet in that decaying body. I believe all think this , maybe not. Jesus knows all.
 
cv5 said:
6“Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
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This verse lends much credence to the "Natural MAN-A-FIED believer", as well as in "the world", according to powers and principalities of darkness. As well as spiritual wickedness in high places!

When re-translated? Goes something like this:

"NO GOOD DEED?" "Goes UNPUNISHED!"

In the Man-a-Fied "religious" community of John Calvins day (sorry!...Call it "thread topic bleed!" :p) In Matthew 23:13, quoted Calvin DIRECTLY! "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."

Because, in their Man-a-Fied "Traditions?" They see NO "logical" reasonings! When the Word of God, is become so void? Why should one press on? There is NO "Higher Calling!" Christ IS the Higher calling! Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! ALL wrapped up in 1 package! They ALL jump in on God's "3 for 1 sale!"

For all THEIR efforts?

Mark 5
26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
 
Deade said:
There is no taking people off the earth. When Christ comes back He will circle the earth for the resurrection of the elect dead and elect alive. Then He will set His feet down on the Mount of Olives fulfilling the prophecy:

Acts 1:11 "Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." :cool:
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"There is no taking people off the earth."
Matt 27
The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Bodily resurrection folks. New glorified bodies not the corrupted ones of course.
 
JaumeJ said:
The understanding I have always believed at least determined to be true is that when Jesus appears on the clouds, though it says He will send His angels to collect those who sleep and then those who are quick is that we will all be transformed in the blinkk of an eye.

It would be a gory sight and thing to take corpses up to Him, and those who are quick are yet in that decaying body. I believe all think this , maybe not. Jesus knows all.
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I agree that all the saints will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye into an incorruptible body, other than our current physical body (1 Corinthians 15:50-53). I also agree that the dead in Christ will rise first then followed by the remnant living (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
My question here though is: Why even bother telling people that the dead are going to rise first with the living following, if the living were to immediately follow the ascendance of the dead in Christ?
My perspective is that there is some time interval between they who currently sleep in Christ ascension, and the living remnant saints ascension. Possibly, something having to do with their having to be killed like their brethren (Revelation 6:11)?
I don't know for sure, but I still feel that there must be some significant space of time between the two in order for the Lord to mention it.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
 
NayborBear said:
This verse lends much credence to the "Natural MAN-A-FIED believer", as well as in "the world", according to powers and principalities of darkness. As well as spiritual wickedness in high places!

When re-translated? Goes something like this:

"NO GOOD DEED?" "Goes UNPUNISHED!"

In the Man-a-Fied "religious" community of John Calvins day (sorry!...Call it "thread topic bleed!" :p) In Matthew 23:13, quoted Calvin DIRECTLY! "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."

Because, in their Man-a-Fied "Traditions?" They see NO "logical" reasonings! When the Word of God, is become so void? Why should one press on? There is NO "Higher Calling!" Christ IS the Higher calling! Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! ALL wrapped up in 1 package! They ALL jump in on God's "3 for 1 sale!"

For all THEIR efforts?

Mark 5
26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
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Its not that complicated. Do a word search for "hypocrite" in Matt ch 5,6,7.
 
louis said:
I agree that all the saints will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye into an incorruptible body, other than our current physical body (1 Corinthians 15:50-53). I also agree that the dead in Christ will rise first then followed by the remnant living (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).
My question here though is: Why even bother telling people that the dead are going to rise first with the living following, if the living were to immediately follow the ascendance of the dead in Christ?
My perspective is that there is some time interval between they who currently sleep in Christ ascension, and the living remnant saints ascension. Possibly, something having to do with their having to be killed like their brethren (Revelation 6:11)?
I don't know for sure, but I still feel that there must be some significant space of time between the two in order for the Lord to mention it.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
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17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Harpazo 101. I really don't understand the cause for all of the confusion. Honestly.
 
I am beginning to feel like Micky Mouse as the sorcerer's apprentice. Good night from Spain, and may God bless you all, amen.
 
cv5 said:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Harpazo 101. I really don't understand the cause for all of the confusion. Honestly.
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If us who remain being caught up together with the currently sleeping saints means it happens over 1 second, or even over a few minutes, then why even bother mentioning it?
There is obviously a greater time interval than more than a few seconds, and even more than a few days.
 
NayborBear said:
Is not so much like a spiritual ascendance, then it is the Ancient of Days, taking up RESIDENCE! Betweenst yer ears!
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Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
 
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louis said:
If us who remain being caught up together with the currently sleeping saints means it happens over 1 second, or even over a few minutes, then why even bother mentioning it?
There is obviously a greater time interval than more than a few seconds, and even more than a few days.
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51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Not according to this scripture......
 
cv5 said:
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Not according to this scripture......
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The scripture says we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. The scripture does not say that the living saints will follow the now sleep saints in the twinkling of an eye, as many assume this to mean.
 
NayborBear said:
The word/term changed, is pretty ambiguous!
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Irrelevant to my point. Two things happen contemporaneously and instantaneously, both groups change state from one condition to a different (and improved) condition.
 
cv5 said:
Irrelevant to my point. Two things happen contemporaneously and instantaneously, both groups change state from one condition to a different (and improved) condition.
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Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

See? "Changed", is pretty ambiguous.

And, just what is your point? Know you not?
 
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