Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
EG This passage in Hebrews is speaking of a real danger and is given as a warning to us- God is trustworthy
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
but human beings are not and some can get their conscience seared and lose out- we can be blotted out if we do not overcome !
The faith a true Christian has comes from God, it is the gift of God. It is not our human faith
Unfortunately I have to take a work break now LOL!
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
but human beings are not and some can get their conscience seared and lose out- we can be blotted out if we do not overcome !
The faith a true Christian has comes from God, it is the gift of God. It is not our human faith
Unfortunately I have to take a work break now LOL!
E
You are misapplying the hebrews Passage, it does not say what you think it is saying, It is talking about people who have heard the word. Claim they believe the word. Like many of Jesus disciples. Walked with the church having never actually having faith in the word (Claimed faith only) and when push came to shove they lived their true faith out. Which was no faith at all.
As for overcoming, Who is he who overcomes?
1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
Those born of God can not be blotted out. Because they are born of God. Everyone is written in the book of life, The ones blotted out are those who did not overcome by faith, Faith which saves a soul. Where Gd adopts us as his children, Born of Him. Where he becomes our Abba Father.
Hope you had a good break.
As for overcoming, Who is he who overcomes?
1 John 5:4
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
Those born of God can not be blotted out. Because they are born of God. Everyone is written in the book of life, The ones blotted out are those who did not overcome by faith, Faith which saves a soul. Where Gd adopts us as his children, Born of Him. Where he becomes our Abba Father.
Hope you had a good break.
-
4
- Show all
This thread is like reading the bible, and notes. Most of it anyway. Oh! not what you think, A lot of things to ponder about. 
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe! <--no works needed to gain, keep or top off salvation.......and like the bible teaches....works for God are the results OF SALVATION, not FOR salvation..........
-
5
- Show all
Last chance, before I place you on my permanent IGNORE LIST, and I suspect that most will do the same. You come in here, guns blazing, and have falsely accused several people that have Proven their Love for the God and the Brethren. AND WE DO NOT SEE ANY LOVE IN YOU. WHY?
Romans 12:9-13 (HCSB)
9 Love must be without hypocrisy. Detest evil; cling to what is good.
10 Show family affection to one another with brotherly love. Outdo one another in showing honor.
11 Do not lack diligence; be fervent in spirit; serve the Lord.
12 Rejoice in hope; be patient in affliction; be persistent in prayer.
13 Share with the saints in their needs; pursue hospitality.
2 Timothy 3:2-5 (NIV)
2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God--
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
Now that is the way we perceive you. So PLEASE DO EXPLAIN.
WE would like YOU TO GIVE US YOUR UNDERSTANDING WITHOUT QUOTING JUST FROM YOUR STRONG's OR VINE's, just what do YOU think the meaning JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION actually are, just in YOUR OWN WORDS? WE suspect You are the ONE who has mistranslated the words, and misinterpreted the verses, containing them. Just so you know, I do not feel threatened, however, I REALLY SUSPECT YOU CAN NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION ACCURATELY.
Romans 12:9-13 (HCSB)
9 Love must be without hypocrisy. Detest evil; cling to what is good.
10 Show family affection to one another with brotherly love. Outdo one another in showing honor.
11 Do not lack diligence; be fervent in spirit; serve the Lord.
12 Rejoice in hope; be patient in affliction; be persistent in prayer.
13 Share with the saints in their needs; pursue hospitality.
2 Timothy 3:2-5 (NIV)
2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God--
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
Now that is the way we perceive you. So PLEASE DO EXPLAIN.
WE would like YOU TO GIVE US YOUR UNDERSTANDING WITHOUT QUOTING JUST FROM YOUR STRONG's OR VINE's, just what do YOU think the meaning JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION actually are, just in YOUR OWN WORDS? WE suspect You are the ONE who has mistranslated the words, and misinterpreted the verses, containing them. Just so you know, I do not feel threatened, however, I REALLY SUSPECT YOU CAN NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION ACCURATELY.
-
3
- Show all
I see you have bumped heads with Studyman. You will find out why I and several others have placed him on our Permanent IGNORE list.
You are confusing SAVING FAITH, with how we Manifest that we really were Saved. The moment we were SAVED is in the same moment that we truly Repented and Received JESUS as LORD, meaning Master. So AFTER THAT FACT, how do we exhibit that our SALVATION was REAL? That is EASY TO ANSWER, BY OUR LOVE. Only True Christians can LOVE like that. Obedience is Part of LOVE, and NEVER HAS BEEN part of our Salvation. 1 John 3:14-19
You are confusing SAVING FAITH, with how we Manifest that we really were Saved. The moment we were SAVED is in the same moment that we truly Repented and Received JESUS as LORD, meaning Master. So AFTER THAT FACT, how do we exhibit that our SALVATION was REAL? That is EASY TO ANSWER, BY OUR LOVE. Only True Christians can LOVE like that. Obedience is Part of LOVE, and NEVER HAS BEEN part of our Salvation. 1 John 3:14-19
-
2
- Show all
P
Your mistaken , the definitions I give of pisteuo used 248 times in the NT , that were mistranslated when we they used the words believe , believer , and believing , are coming from the Strongs and Vines . Both definitions valadate what I have been doing in my personal relationship with Christ .
As for justification and sanctification , the correct understandings of those two words are as follows .
Justification is simply to be seen by the Father as just like Christ.
Sanctification or to be sanctified is to be separated from .
Don't bother trying to correct me . These understandings come from over 30 years of teaching at a Stanford University level .
Seeing that you are unteachable , and your to fragile to put your own understanding on the table , so I might learn something from you , I think putting me on ignore is the best and worst idea you've had so far . Of course you'll need to do one last trampling before you go , so get it over with .
As for justification and sanctification , the correct understandings of those two words are as follows .
Justification is simply to be seen by the Father as just like Christ.
Sanctification or to be sanctified is to be separated from .
Don't bother trying to correct me . These understandings come from over 30 years of teaching at a Stanford University level .
Seeing that you are unteachable , and your to fragile to put your own understanding on the table , so I might learn something from you , I think putting me on ignore is the best and worst idea you've had so far . Of course you'll need to do one last trampling before you go , so get it over with .
-
1
- Show all
I am not unused to a little hostility Lol! I was on End Times for a long time and moderator some of that time. That was a lively group! So Studyman doesnt bother me.
I beleve like I said that salvation is a process ,saved in a sense when we are covnverted, saved as we progress on this salvation road and truly completing that salvation at the first resurrection. That includes grace , faith and obedience to Gods laws. His laws are living laws that guide our everyday life, how we treat others for one thing. We dont have other Gods before Him,we dont lie, steal covet and etc A life of outgoing love toward God and man
I Jhn5 vr 3
I beleve like I said that salvation is a process ,saved in a sense when we are covnverted, saved as we progress on this salvation road and truly completing that salvation at the first resurrection. That includes grace , faith and obedience to Gods laws. His laws are living laws that guide our everyday life, how we treat others for one thing. We dont have other Gods before Him,we dont lie, steal covet and etc A life of outgoing love toward God and man
I Jhn5 vr 3
As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. James 2:26
...teaching them to OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU… Matthew 28:18-20
...And this is his command: TO BELIEVE in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and TO LOVE one another as he commanded us.1 John 3:23
...And this is love: that WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that YOU WALK IN LOVE. 2 John 1:6
...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM.
,Philippians 1:29
,,,Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM..Hebrews 5:8-9
It is clear that Jesus is the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him and suffer for Him. Those who obey Him are the ones who have genuine saving FAITH unlike those who CLAIM TO HAVE FAITH and know God but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. Titus 1:16
Does a person who teaches obedience to God causes another person to sin by doing so?
Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?
Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?
Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)
Is it obedience to God to break the law?
Who then causes another person to sin?
...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6
...teaching them to OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU… Matthew 28:18-20
...And this is his command: TO BELIEVE in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and TO LOVE one another as he commanded us.1 John 3:23
...And this is love: that WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that YOU WALK IN LOVE. 2 John 1:6
...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM.
,Philippians 1:29
,,,Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED and, once made perfect, he became THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM..Hebrews 5:8-9
It is clear that Jesus is the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him and suffer for Him. Those who obey Him are the ones who have genuine saving FAITH unlike those who CLAIM TO HAVE FAITH and know God but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. Titus 1:16
Does a person who teaches obedience to God causes another person to sin by doing so?
Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?
Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?
Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)
Is it obedience to God to break the law?
Who then causes another person to sin?
...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Here is where we come to the word born or is it begotten? Same word but understanding and context explains it Also notice , vr4 of this chapter, this is the love of God that we keep His commandments,We show Gods love by obeying Him, by expanding that love as Christ did by keeping the law (commandments) in the spirit
. The word translated as born or begotten is gennao g1080 in Strongs notice in Jhn 5 vr 1 it is used both ways, A person born of God is a spirit being , that happends at the resurrection when we are born into Gods Family . At this time we are begotten of God and like an unborn baby we grow in the mother (Church ) until born at the resurrection and get our spirit bodies! If we were born of God now we could not sin.I Jhn3 vr9. This born again idea at conversion doesnt hold up well when we read Jhn3 vr6-8 .If we are born again where it says if born again we will be spirit we will be like the wind , like the air no longer flesh but spirit!
Yeah, I know how that will go over !
. The word translated as born or begotten is gennao g1080 in Strongs notice in Jhn 5 vr 1 it is used both ways, A person born of God is a spirit being , that happends at the resurrection when we are born into Gods Family . At this time we are begotten of God and like an unborn baby we grow in the mother (Church ) until born at the resurrection and get our spirit bodies! If we were born of God now we could not sin.I Jhn3 vr9. This born again idea at conversion doesnt hold up well when we read Jhn3 vr6-8 .If we are born again where it says if born again we will be spirit we will be like the wind , like the air no longer flesh but spirit!
Yeah, I know how that will go over !
It seems like you reject everything that goes against your FALSE MAN MADE doctrine that NULLIFIES God's WORD, laws, commands, teachings and instructions (math 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24) but what did John say about this?
...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.1 John 2:3-6
...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
King Solomon in His WISDOM wrote and said;
...Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
While in Hebrews it says;
...Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, Hebrews 9:27
And Paul said;
..l Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. Philippians 3:12-16
And the Lord Jesus Christ himself said;
...Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:21,23-24
Are your words more trustworthy?
...He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. John 7:18
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Ephesians 5:6
...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.1 John 2:3-6
...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
King Solomon in His WISDOM wrote and said;
...Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
While in Hebrews it says;
...Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, Hebrews 9:27
And Paul said;
..l Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. Philippians 3:12-16
And the Lord Jesus Christ himself said;
...Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:21,23-24
Are your words more trustworthy?
...He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. John 7:18
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Ephesians 5:6
-
1
-
1
- Show all