Is God that cruel?
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My understanding of God's judgement is that people will be judged according to their works( see Revelation 20:11-12). I think there will be degrees of punishment. Jesus seems to imply this when he says about Tyre and Sidon how in the day of judgement it will be more bearable than for Chorazin and Bethsaida ( see Matthew 11:21-22) I used to believe very strongly in a fire and brimstone hell for all who reject Christ, but now I just am not completely sure. Whatever it is like for different people remember what Abraham said in Genesis 18:25 : " Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" God is always just and his judgements are pure and righteous.
I don't believe that people will jump for joy just before the moment they are pushed off a cliff to fall in the lake of fire where they will spend eternity. At that point, no one will want to go there regardless of the poor choices they made while they were alive. The term 'Daddy' is a term that Jesus calls his father and is an affectionate term. Nobody on the edge of going to hell will be saying that word for if they did then God would probably consider what is about to happen and that would grieve Him.
I believe you are right. And that ignorance could be due to certain one's being Roman Catholic. In the Catholic church history the Council of Trent deemed Sola Scriptura anathema. Meaning, scripture alone are the highest authority was decreed to be a curse.
The Council was convened under order of the RCC and part of their decree, sort of speak, was to assail the Five Solas identified by the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. Sola Scriptura, Sola Christus, Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, and Sola Deo Gloria.
The Council deemed them all "Anathema".
Anathema
noun, plural a·nath·e·mas.
The Council was convened under order of the RCC and part of their decree, sort of speak, was to assail the Five Solas identified by the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. Sola Scriptura, Sola Christus, Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, and Sola Deo Gloria.
The Council deemed them all "Anathema".
Anathema
noun, plural a·nath·e·mas.
- a person or thing detested or loathed:That subject is anathema to him.
- a person or thing accursed or consigned to damnation or destruction.
- a formal ecclesiastical curse involving excommunication.
L
If your son keeps hurting others and doing terrible things that other people have to live with their whole life because your son hurt them and continues, should there be some kind of judgement or should the son get a free pass to heaven, thus continue with the mayham, sorry not in my father's house, you will be spit out.
All of creation is Father's house. For no thing that exists is of other than God and his having created it.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
Ecclesiastes 9:10
Why do you think God allowed Lucifer to live after casting him and 1/3 of his fellow follower angels out of Heaven after they lost the war?
Tormenting yourself thinking of fire and brimstone and suffering for eternity is not finding the peace of Christ as you should do. There is a history to those scriptures. Remember, the New Testament is a continuation of the old. The Messiah prophecy fulfilled. Where Jesus figured prominently in the Old Testament, in the New he is arrived to fulfill Father's mission.
There is no fire and brimstone Hell in the Old Testament. Jesus was a Jew. As God, "Emmanuel=God with us", Jesus knew the scriptures. He even taught in the temple. He would not teach of that which was not The Word's words. And he did not.
The article to follow is rather lengthy. However, if you take time, and not in one sitting understandably, you will know far more than you are led to believe now. God's word stands eternal. He is not a man that he should lie.
Unity in false doctrine is not the unity of the Ekklesia Christ envisioned. There are over 50 thousand denominations on earth now and that number grows every year. A divided body in Christ is the Devils work. Not God's.
Tormenting yourself thinking of fire and brimstone and suffering for eternity is not finding the peace of Christ as you should do. There is a history to those scriptures. Remember, the New Testament is a continuation of the old. The Messiah prophecy fulfilled. Where Jesus figured prominently in the Old Testament, in the New he is arrived to fulfill Father's mission.
There is no fire and brimstone Hell in the Old Testament. Jesus was a Jew. As God, "Emmanuel=God with us", Jesus knew the scriptures. He even taught in the temple. He would not teach of that which was not The Word's words. And he did not.
The article to follow is rather lengthy. However, if you take time, and not in one sitting understandably, you will know far more than you are led to believe now. God's word stands eternal. He is not a man that he should lie.
Unity in false doctrine is not the unity of the Ekklesia Christ envisioned. There are over 50 thousand denominations on earth now and that number grows every year. A divided body in Christ is the Devils work. Not God's.
(From The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment by Thomas B. Thayer, 1855)
Hell Is Not in the New Testament (Continues)The word hell, in the Old Testament, is always a translation of the Hebrew word Sheol,which occurs sixty-four times, and is rendered "hell" thirty-two times, "grave" twenty-nine times, and "pit" three times.
By examination of the Hebrew Scriptures it will be found that its radical or primary meaning is, The place or state of the dead.
It is plain that it has here no reference to a place of endless torment after death.
It is plain, then, from these citations, that the word Sheol, "hell," makes nothing for the doctrine of future unending punishment as a part of the Law penalties. It is never used by Moses or the Prophets in the sense of a place of torment after death; and in no way conflicts with the statement already proved, that the Law of Moses deals wholly in temporal rewards and punishments.
This position, also, I wish to fortify by the testimony of Orthodox critics, men of learning and candor [who were currently professors of history and theology at Oxford when Thayer wrote]. They know, and therefore they speak.
By examination of the Hebrew Scriptures it will be found that its radical or primary meaning is, The place or state of the dead.
It is plain that it has here no reference to a place of endless torment after death.
It is plain, then, from these citations, that the word Sheol, "hell," makes nothing for the doctrine of future unending punishment as a part of the Law penalties. It is never used by Moses or the Prophets in the sense of a place of torment after death; and in no way conflicts with the statement already proved, that the Law of Moses deals wholly in temporal rewards and punishments.
This position, also, I wish to fortify by the testimony of Orthodox critics, men of learning and candor [who were currently professors of history and theology at Oxford when Thayer wrote]. They know, and therefore they speak.
- CHAPMAN. [Mark Chapman, Oxford theologian and historian] "Sheol, in itself considered, has no connection with future punishment." Cited by Balfour, First Inquiry.
- DR. ALLEN says: "The term sheol does not seem to mean, with certainty, anything more than the state of the dead in their deep abode."
- DR. CAMPBELL. "Sheol signifies the state of the dead without regard to their happiness or misery."
- DR. WHITBY. "Sheol throughout the Old Testament signifies not the place of punishment, or of the souls of bad men only, but the grave only, or the place of death."
- DR. MUENSCHER. [A distinguished author of Dogmatic History] "The souls or shades of the dead wander in sheol, the realm or kingdom of death, an abode deep under the earth. Thither go all men, without distinction, and hope for no return. There ceases all pain and anguish; there reigns an unbroken silence; there all is powerless and still; and even the praise of God is heard no more."
- VON COELLN. "Sheol itself is described as the house appointed for all living, which receives into its bosom all mankind, without distinction of rank, wealth, or moral character. It is only in the mode of death, and not in the condition after death, that the good are distinguished above the evil. The just, for instance, die in peace, and are gently borne away before the evil comes; while a bitter death breaks the wicked like as a tree."
ROFL
Here we go with the ignorant accusation. You purposely ignore what was stated about the creeds. The creeds define what a Christian must believe. Therefore they are an evangelism tool! When talking to an unbeliever about Jesus and what the Bible says about what a Christian must believe what do you use. This was the purpose of the creeds. That is what they state. You people who repeatedly rant against them have never ever stated anything in them is erroneous. You just make the false accusation that they are supposed to be thought of as above the Bible instead of being used to explain things scattered through the Bible. OK solo scritptorum people deal with someone wanting to understand the gospel message with just the Bible and no notes or anything else except your memory and show them all pertinent information in the Bible. When I did this I was given a cheat seat of what to say and verses that stated what was needed to tell them.
In addition in Sunday School classes pamphlets are used with the students and a teachers guide for the teacher is used.
Oops!
Man made items must be thrown away right!! Give it a rest. You just keep exposing your ignorance!!
Here we go with the ignorant accusation. You purposely ignore what was stated about the creeds. The creeds define what a Christian must believe. Therefore they are an evangelism tool! When talking to an unbeliever about Jesus and what the Bible says about what a Christian must believe what do you use. This was the purpose of the creeds. That is what they state. You people who repeatedly rant against them have never ever stated anything in them is erroneous. You just make the false accusation that they are supposed to be thought of as above the Bible instead of being used to explain things scattered through the Bible. OK solo scritptorum people deal with someone wanting to understand the gospel message with just the Bible and no notes or anything else except your memory and show them all pertinent information in the Bible. When I did this I was given a cheat seat of what to say and verses that stated what was needed to tell them.
In addition in Sunday School classes pamphlets are used with the students and a teachers guide for the teacher is used.
Oops!
Man made items must be thrown away right!! Give it a rest. You just keep exposing your ignorance!!
I would prefer to send you this in private but the system does not permit this. As you are new here you may not know this.
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Therefore I find I must send this to you publicly. And perhaps that is God's will that what long need to be said is said. Welcome to our forums. You joined yesterday I see and as you are new I wish to extend to you not only welcome, but on behalf of the mockery and hatefulness you've encountered personally and toward your observations, inquiries, and understanding of scripture as one who arrives here to find community and learn the scriptures, apology on behalf of those incapable of such a thing.
You do not deserve the scorn you've received from dcontroversial and their co-offender Preacher4Truth. The former claims to have attended Divinity college. The latter claims to be a minister. Imagine the words you read from them here being spoken openly from a pulpit as those in the pews see their face and know their name.
Forgive them, for they do know what they do. And they are unrepentant.
It is not a sin to question the scriptures meaning. If you encounter that which presumes to imply it is remember a time called the Inquisition. There were many in history. Questioning the meaning of scripture, even owning a Bible if one were blessed to afford that which was very expensive after the invention of the printing press, could mean death. Preceded by excruciating torture . The torture was typically in private. While the executions were very public. And at times it was mandatory the peasant class attend to watch what would befall those who dared to ask questions of God's meaning. The higher classes attended usually and that was for their pleasure in watching the "pagans" and "heretics" suffer their just desserts. It served as a warning. Believe, remain mute, and you shall not burn.
It was all done in the name of God.
God did not approve.
We're blessed to live in a better time now. And yet, when anonymity gives Devils purchase to weave their spells and let their viperous tongues loose, they shall find the doorway to those places and expel their dark innards onto the tables of light. And they hope some of that sputum will stick to the Christ-like countenance of the saints at that table, the Christians in community, so that they forget their peace in Christ and regurgitate the same vile sputum like unto what the Devils attending did spit forth. Because their hatred, those Devils, is parasitical. It seeks a host so that it may cast seeds into fertile soil and sprout forth its own kind , that the briers and thorns shall take over the vineyard of the Lord and thus contaminate the harvest.
Know the Devil's by their putrid fruit and do not be led to believe them nor to let the sputum that sprays from their maw to get on you. Kick the dust from your feet, turn your back, and continue in the light of Christ. For in darkness do they dwell and in darkness shall they perish one after the other, those Devils lurking everywhere.
And the people of light, the daughters and sons of the God of lights, shall prosper in blessings and live forever.
Welcome to this forum. May God protect you. Amen.
You need a paid subscription in order to initiate private conversations with other members
(and you also get other forum and chat benefits).
This helps protect our system from abuse and also helps fund our site.
A ONE YEAR subscription is only $24 (one time, not recurring), so that's only $2 per month.
A LIFETIME subscription is only $100 (one time, not recurring).
Therefore I find I must send this to you publicly. And perhaps that is God's will that what long need to be said is said. Welcome to our forums. You joined yesterday I see and as you are new I wish to extend to you not only welcome, but on behalf of the mockery and hatefulness you've encountered personally and toward your observations, inquiries, and understanding of scripture as one who arrives here to find community and learn the scriptures, apology on behalf of those incapable of such a thing.
You do not deserve the scorn you've received from dcontroversial and their co-offender Preacher4Truth. The former claims to have attended Divinity college. The latter claims to be a minister. Imagine the words you read from them here being spoken openly from a pulpit as those in the pews see their face and know their name.
Forgive them, for they do know what they do. And they are unrepentant.
It is not a sin to question the scriptures meaning. If you encounter that which presumes to imply it is remember a time called the Inquisition. There were many in history. Questioning the meaning of scripture, even owning a Bible if one were blessed to afford that which was very expensive after the invention of the printing press, could mean death. Preceded by excruciating torture . The torture was typically in private. While the executions were very public. And at times it was mandatory the peasant class attend to watch what would befall those who dared to ask questions of God's meaning. The higher classes attended usually and that was for their pleasure in watching the "pagans" and "heretics" suffer their just desserts. It served as a warning. Believe, remain mute, and you shall not burn.
It was all done in the name of God.
God did not approve.
We're blessed to live in a better time now. And yet, when anonymity gives Devils purchase to weave their spells and let their viperous tongues loose, they shall find the doorway to those places and expel their dark innards onto the tables of light. And they hope some of that sputum will stick to the Christ-like countenance of the saints at that table, the Christians in community, so that they forget their peace in Christ and regurgitate the same vile sputum like unto what the Devils attending did spit forth. Because their hatred, those Devils, is parasitical. It seeks a host so that it may cast seeds into fertile soil and sprout forth its own kind , that the briers and thorns shall take over the vineyard of the Lord and thus contaminate the harvest.
Know the Devil's by their putrid fruit and do not be led to believe them nor to let the sputum that sprays from their maw to get on you. Kick the dust from your feet, turn your back, and continue in the light of Christ. For in darkness do they dwell and in darkness shall they perish one after the other, those Devils lurking everywhere.
And the people of light, the daughters and sons of the God of lights, shall prosper in blessings and live forever.
Welcome to this forum. May God protect you. Amen.
The record in Matt 17 does not support "reincarnation".
In reincarnation, a person is born over and over and over again.
In the record in Matthew, John Baptist is shown to be a type.
In Luke 1:17 (referring to John Baptist) we are told:
John walked in the same spirit and power of Elijah ... the record does not teach that John was Elijah.
Hope/pray you understand the difference.
In reincarnation, a person is born over and over and over again.
In the record in Matthew, John Baptist is shown to be a type.
In Luke 1:17 (referring to John Baptist) we are told:
And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias
John walked in the same spirit and power of Elijah ... the record does not teach that John was Elijah.
Hope/pray you understand the difference.
Oh, more slander, and a total falsehood. But you're filled with bearing witness.
This is a total falsehood as well, and just designed as malicious slander.
I can guarantee you're not Sola Scriptura, and that isn't slander, it's unfortunately true, one other reason we pray for you.
You think you are, but you're definitely not, you hold to several teachings that are not at all in the texts of Scripture.
This is a total falsehood as well, and just designed as malicious slander.
I can guarantee you're not Sola Scriptura, and that isn't slander, it's unfortunately true, one other reason we pray for you.
You think you are, but you're definitely not, you hold to several teachings that are not at all in the texts of Scripture.