Christ is God

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But about the Son he says,​
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”​
(Hebrews 1:8-9)​

here, quoting Psalm 45, the Son is called God - this is sufficient to prove Christ is God, it is explicit!

but there is more - whose throne is forever?

But you, YHWH, sit enthroned forever;​
your renown endures through all generations. ​
(Psalm 102:8) ​


the Bible says Christ = God = YHWH
not some other deity, I AM THAT I AM -- Jesus Christ is I AM taking upon Himself 100% the form of man
 
HOW DARE YOU suggest that Christ is God...........goodness...........saying something like that will surely result in your wasting away to ......... uh, er, hmm........you ain't nothing but bones now........

Oh well..........never mind
 
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p_rehbein said:
HOW DARE YOU suggest that Christ is God...........goodness...........saying something like that will surely result in your wasting away to ......... uh, er, hmm........you ain't nothing but bones now........

Oh well..........never mind
Click to expand...

i did eat a lot today, thankyouverymuch. :D

just returned from grandma's house, back over the river and through the woods!
you know how grandmas do
 
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Placid said:
--- Both Jesus and Christ are separate Personages apart from God, are they not?
Click to expand...

no, Jesus is Christ and is God. it's a long thread. have a look at the many proofs :)

the man Jesus is the holy thing, the Spirit of God overshadowing a woman, setting aside His glory and robing Himself in humanity.
He spoke as a man and walked as a man because He became a man ((why? what is He revealing to us?)) and speaks as God and walks as God because He is everlasting almighty God.

don't think, He prayed to the Father therefore He is not God, or that there are at least two gods, maybe more. listen to what He says:

these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. ​
(John 17:13) ​

He tells you why He prayed in their hearing, that it be recorded and transmitted to you. He spoke these things in the world so that you may share His joy in fullness. spoke as a man because He was fully man. to know that He stepped down and came in the flesh so that you may be redeemed, made new, and come to a full knowledge of Him - because to know Him is life.

from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. ​
(2 Corinthians 5:16)​
 
Hi Jaumej,

Quote: You are overlooking the Word in its entirety.

--- I wonder if you can explain this, as I don’t know what you mean?

However, I want to continue in the explanation of Isaiah 9:6, “And His name will be called Wonderful,”
--- We know that Christ made certain appearances in the OT, as He did with Moses in the wilderness wanderings. Also, when the Children of Israel got into idolatry, God would raise up a leader or a judge to bring them back.

--- This was the case in Judges 13, where it says, 13:1 “Again the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord delivered them into the hand of the Philistines for forty years.” 2 Now there was a certain man from Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren and had no children. 3 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to the woman and said to her, “Indeed now, you are barren and have borne no children, but you shall conceive and bear a son. 6 So the woman came and told her husband, saying, “A Man of God came to me, and His countenance was like the countenance of the Angel of God. --- 15 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “Please let us detain You, and we will prepare a young goat for You.”

16 And the Angel of the Lord said to Manoah, “Though you detain Me, I will not eat your food. But if you offer a burnt offering, you must offer it to the Lord.” 17 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?”

18 And the Angel of the Lord said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is Wonderful?”

19 So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to the Lord. And He did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on— 20 it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar—the Angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar!

--- This is the only place wonderful is used as a name.

Blessings
 
Placid said:
Hi Jaumej,

Quote: You are overlooking the Word in its entirety.

--- I wonder if you can explain this, as I don’t know what you mean?

However, I want to continue in the explanation of Isaiah 9:6, “And His name will be called Wonderful,”
--- We know that Christ made certain appearances in the OT, as He did with Moses in the wilderness wanderings. Also, when the Children of Israel got into idolatry, God would raise up a leader or a judge to bring them back.

--- This was the case in Judges 13, where it says, 13:1 “Again the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and the Lord delivered them into the hand of the Philistines for forty years.” 2 Now there was a certain man from Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren and had no children. 3 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to the woman and said to her, “Indeed now, you are barren and have borne no children, but you shall conceive and bear a son. 6 So the woman came and told her husband, saying, “A Man of God came to me, and His countenance was like the countenance of the Angel of God. --- 15 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “Please let us detain You, and we will prepare a young goat for You.”

16 And the Angel of the Lord said to Manoah, “Though you detain Me, I will not eat your food. But if you offer a burnt offering, you must offer it to the Lord.” 17 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?”

18 And the Angel of the Lord said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is Wonderful?”

19 So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to the Lord. And He did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on— 20 it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar—the Angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar!

--- This is the only place wonderful is used as a name.

Blessings
Click to expand...


Not susre of your motive to continually address me. Since I do not post all of the Word each time I respond to any given post, I may seem to overlook valid poins to another but know this, I am well aware Jesus appeared many times in the OT He is there when Elohim said, to come let US make man in Our image…….the _Father, Son and Holy Spirit…… If you need elaboration, ask for it, but do not assume I do not consider the same as others in my faith…..this is presumptious. Do you believe Jesus? Isaiah speaking in His stead? When He came down to Abraham? and so many other mentions in the OT. When yAHWEH SAYS, "i AM YOUR hUSBAND."" OR I am your King?...…….it is all about knowing to which post a new post is replyig.
 
Hi Jaumel,

Sorry, I guess when you write Word with a Capital you mean the Scriptures, and when I write Word with a Capital, I mean ‘the Word, through whom all things were made,’ John 1:3.
--- Yes I believe in Jesus as my Savior and Lord. And I believe in Christ as our Messiah.

However, since I was explaining the verses Isaiah 9:6-7, I would like to finish, as there are usually others reading our posts.

--- And His names shall be --- “Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father.”
This is explained in Colossians 2:
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
--- So the fullness of the Godhead is in Christ.

In John 14:15 Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
--- The Helper was 'with' them in the Person of Jesus, but later would be 'in' them in the Person of the Holy Spirit.

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
So the Helper, the Holy Spirit would be their ‘Counsellor.’

--- The Mighty God was the Word, the begotten Son. He was not “Almighty God,” but was subject to God the Father. --- And was 'the One through whom all things were made.'

--- As well, Christ represented Almighty God as ‘the Everlasting Father,’ as we see again in John 14 where the three are mentioned 19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

--- “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ he is a new creature,” and “In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,' and 'we are complete in Him.' --- 20 "Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:20-21.
Blessings
 
Placid said:
--- The Mighty God was the Word, the begotten Son. He was not “Almighty God,” but was subject to God the Father. --- And was 'the One through whom all things were made.'
Click to expand...

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. ​
(Isaiah 9:6)​
​
in taking upon Himself the form of a man He existed as a perfect man: man, humbly subject to the Almighty God.

if i, as your manager, demonstrate the tasks of your role as a worker by performing them for you as an example, then in that moment in which i am showing you how you should do, i look just like an employee. but i am still the manager.
 
dcontroversal said:
The Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the SON

I saw the dead....stand before GOD and the books were opened (plus the book of life) and the dead were judged out of those things written in the books.....

If JESUS judges ALL things and the FATHER judges no man
The dead standing before GOD being judged MUST be being judged by JESUS<--AS GOD

JESUS is LORD, CHRIST and GOD
Click to expand...
Jesus said "I and the Father are one."
 
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Yes Jesus Christ is God in the flesh yes. He and I are one. Christ is the human form of God. God's son. One who can relate to us in every way. Amd one who we can relate to in a human to human way. As opposed to relating to God Himself in a human to God way / God to human way. But yeah! Christ is God. But God is not Christ. God is God. Although He and The Father are one. Get your head round that! :)
 
Placid said:
Hi Jaumel,

Sorry, I guess when you write Word with a Capital you mean the Scriptures, and when I write Word with a Capital, I mean ‘the Word, through whom all things were made,’ John 1:3.
--- Yes I believe in Jesus as my Savior and Lord. And I believe in Christ as our Messiah.

However, since I was explaining the verses Isaiah 9:6-7, I would like to finish, as there are usually others reading our posts.

--- And His names shall be --- “Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father.”
This is explained in Colossians 2:
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
--- So the fullness of the Godhead is in Christ.

In John 14:15 Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
--- The Helper was 'with' them in the Person of Jesus, but later would be 'in' them in the Person of the Holy Spirit.

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
So the Helper, the Holy Spirit would be their ‘Counsellor.’

--- The Mighty God was the Word, the begotten Son. He was not “Almighty God,” but was subject to God the Father. --- And was 'the One through whom all things were made.'

--- As well, Christ represented Almighty God as ‘the Everlasting Father,’ as we see again in John 14 where the three are mentioned 19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

--- “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ he is a new creature,” and “In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,' and 'we are complete in Him.' --- 20 "Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:20-21.
Blessings
Click to expand...

Why are you raining on wet ground? By the way, I touch type and use voice-to-text in order to read so there are ttimes my caps lock. It is only by chance this occurs…..typo.
 
To conclude the sign and meaning of Isaiah 9:6

--- And the last name, will be called, “The Prince of Peace,” who of course refers to Jesus.

Isaiah 9:6 ”For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

The “Child that was born,” was Jesus, which was the ‘body’ that God prepared for Christ to indwell, as it says in Hebrews 10:5.

And Christ, “The Son who was given,” represented all the names, and that is why it says in Colossians 2:9-10 “In Him (Christ) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and you are complete in Him.”

The name “Wonderful” refers to Christ Himself in an appearance in Judges 13:18.

Christ represented the three witnesses in heaven as, --- “Counsellor,” the Holy Spirit, who taught them all things, John 14:26. --- “Mighty God,” the Word, the Begotten God/Son (Theos), John 1:1, 18. --- “Everlasting Father,” Almighty God, (Theov), John 1:1, 18. --- 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.”

And “Prince of Peace,” Jesus, the perfect Man. “He who knew no sin was made sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.” He is our Savior, --- “Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,” Hebrews 12:2. His ministry was that of peace, and we could add this instruction from Hebrews 12:14 “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.”

--- I will add "And the government will be upon His shoulder," with verse 7 later.
Blessings
 
To continue with Isaiah 9:6-7

A related Scripture is Isaiah 7:10 Moreover the Lord spoke again to Ahaz, saying,
11 “Ask a sign for yourself from the Lord your God; ask it either in the depth or in the height above.”
12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, nor will I test the Lord!”
13 Then He said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also?
14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

This statement from Isaiah 9:6, refers to Christ, Immanuel, --- “And the government will be upon His shoulder.”
9:7 “Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever.”

--- Notice this in Daniel 7:13 “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.

--- This Son of Man is Christ, who is called the Son of Man in the Gospels.

Also, in Luke 1:30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; --- and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
--- From the semi colon after Highest, it refers to Christ, Immanuel, who was given the kingdom.

And in 1 Corinthians 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son (of Man) Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

--- From the sign given to Ahaz to this last line, it fulfils the redemptive plan, and returns the kingdoms of this world to God, as the verse says in 2 Corinthians 5:19
“That God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.”

--- And the last line of Isaiah 9:7 “The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
Blessings
 
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, ​
To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.​
(James 1:27 KJV)​

"God and the Father"

:unsure:​
 
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God created the world in Genesis
In colossians 1:16, specifically referring to Jesus Christ:
"for by Him ALL things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created BY Him and FOR Him
 
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The doctrine of the Trinity is held historically by orthodox Christianity.

“The ONE true God eternally exists as three distinct Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal, co-eternal, and one in essence."


Acts 17:29 (Godhead) KJV

Colossians 2:9 KJV For in Him dwelleth all the FULLNESS of the Godhead bodily

There is scripture aplenty to prove that Jesus is God incarnate, HOWEVER......For the Believer no proof is needed, and for the skeptic there is no amount of proof that would be enough.
 
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Hi GraceAndTruth,

Responding to post 795:
Quote: God created the world in Genesis
In colossians 1:16, specifically referring to Jesus Christ:
"for by Him ALL things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created BY Him and FOR Him

--- You have it right, in Genesis 1:1 it says,“In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.” --- God created multiplied millions of stars and heavenly bodies before He created our earth. Then it says in 2 “The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” --- Notice that the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, was with God from the beginning.--- And here the Holy Spirit, working with God’s creation, brings life to the sea.

Another place where it speaks of the beginning is in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
--- (In John 1:18 the Word is called the ‘only begotten God,’ or the ‘only begotten Son,’ as both apply. Also notice that He was in ‘the bosom of the Father,' and is also called ‘the Son of His love,’ in Colossians 1:13.)

John 1:3 “All things were made through Him (the Word), and without Him, nothing was made that was made.”

--- So in saying “All things were made through Him (the Word), that wouldn’t include anyone else would it? --- Neither Jesus, nor Christ, would be involved in creation, would they?

And Colossians says in 1:13 He (God) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the 'Son of His love,'
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He (the Son of His love, the Word) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (First born, only begotten.)
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him (the Word).
Blessings
 
Hi Grace and truth,

There are two other places that it confirms the Word as being involved with God in creation, and being the heir of all things.
Hebrews 1:1 “God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.”

Notice the comparisons to Colossians 1:13 “He (God) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love (the Word, John 1:18) 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

To continue in Hebrews 1:
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”?
And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
8 But to the Son (the Word) He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

--- After Satan was cast out of heaven, Ezekiel 28:15-16. God chose and anointed another Cherub as leader (the Word), chosen from among His ‘companions,’ others who would qualify.

10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
--- Here the Son was called God as He was in John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

We don’t see the name Jesus until it says this in Hebrews 2:9 “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.”
--- It says, “But we SEE Jesus.” We could not see the Word, the Holy Spirit, nor Christ, so Jesus was the human Vessel that we could SEE. --- The Holy Spirit was in Jesus from conception, and it was Christ who spoke the wisdom of God through Jesus. --- It says, “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself), 2 Corinthians 5:19. --- And Christ indwelt the body of Jesus to speak through Him.
Blessings
 
​
Rejoice greatly, daughter Zion!​
Shout, daughter Jerusalem!​
See, your King comes to you,​
righteous and victorious,​
lowly and riding on a donkey,​
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.​
(Zechariah 9:9) ​
​
How awesome is YHWH the Most High, ​
the great King over all the earth! ​
(Psalm 47:2) ​
 
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