Non-core beliefs

[p_rehbein]

To be clear, my responses are addressed to your dismissal of faith healing. Scripture uses EXACTING and SPECIFIC language to teach us to gather round those who are in need of healing, and lay hands on them and pray over them. I am not speaking of the Televangelists who make a living doing this, I am speaking of Christians in their Congregations who read and understand and believe the Word of God without the need of one such as you to teach them that faith healing is false......

This comment of yours is a direct insult to anyone who believes in the Gifts of the Spirit, and the power of prayer, and the ability of God to heal the sick!

In more happy clappy churches you tend to get a lot of 'faith healers' on the speaking ring, for example.
In these types of churches, the more wild the story you're willing to accept without question, the stronger your faith - or so the culture leads you to believe.

A more general view of this leads to the generalised question of when is a belief part of the core religion or part of the culture of the people?

Methinks your intellect is not based on Scripture, well, not the Scripture found in the Word of God

 

[p_rehbein]

1 Corinthians 12:7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8) For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9) To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11) But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also isChrist.

13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That's fairly EXACTING and SPECIFIC!

 

[Adam77]

Making up terms like "core beliefs" is probably alright for some, but it smacks of confusing the plain talk availed in the Word.

It also reminds me of Scientology when they make up their own vocabulary. Understand when this is done it is not really something inovative other than it is replacing another known and practical word in our vocabulary.

Instead of a possession, the Scientologist would say "a havingness."

Instead of a deed or chore, a scientologisst would say, "a doingness."

People who have conceived of denominational separations oftime add new vocabulary or useage of known vocabulary in order to impress others.

The Bible and its word usage in all languages and translations has enough mystery and good usage of vocabulary for most folks.

This is a total misrepresentation of what I'm saying.

Firstly, many Church websites have their 'core beliefs' listed on them.
Core beliefs such as Jesus being lord and saviour.

Non-core beliefs are then beliefs that are not core.
This isn't a new word, it's simply using the English language in the correct way.

Secondly, and this isn't aimed at you personally, but I must say that I'm getting a little fed up with the culture in some Churches as well as on here.

By Church culture I mean anover emphasis on monetary giving (debate occured in another thread, and from that many people agree with me).

But I'm starting to see a pattern on here too...

...ask a pertinent of challenging question about something you're grappling with, and if it challenges others there are two things that will happen (that I've seen so far):

1. You'll be asked to confirm that you're actually a Christian.
Your very faith is called into question because you've asked something.

2. If you present an something that is clearly wrong Biblically, other users will quite rightly help you to see why you're wrong.
An example is that I was wrong about sex before marriage.

However, present your thoughts about something pertinent in a way that is logical, both Biblically and scientifically, but which challenges people, and you'll be called 'prideful' and accused of 'trying to impress people'.

I'm genuinely fed up with this.

I'm am a Christian and I'm asking sincere questions.
I just won't have somebody try to tell me that's it's a bad thing to exercise rational thought, indeed Jesus tells us to do just that.

I'm not having a good at you or anybody else really, but I am starting to consider if becoming involved in the wider Christian community is a good thing for me, or if for me it would be better to build my relationship with God on a 1-1 basis.

 

[p_rehbein]

James 5:13) Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

14) Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16) Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.


Fairly EXACTING and SPECIFIC, is it not?

 

[p_rehbein]

Wait, whut? Now you are the victim "grappling" with something? Your OP language was exacting and specific was it not? Didn't see any mention of "grappling" there...........sounded rather mater of fact and specific.

As I said, I am especially disturbed your dismissal of people being healed through faith/prayer.......

 

[Adam77]

Wait, whut? Now you are the victim "grappling" with something? Your OP language was exacting and specific was it not? Didn't see any mention of "grappling" there...........sounded rather mater of fact and specific.

As I said, I am especially disturbed your dismissal of people being healed through faith/prayer.......

Yeah you're right, I didn't mention the issues I'm having in this thread, however you have read and replied to my posts about the issues in other threads, do please don't attempt to turn this into a victim thing.
There are no victims and perpetrators here, I just passed comment on how pertinent questions are handled.

Did I say that people aren't healed through prayer?

Perhaps that should be third on my list: accusing people of saying something they haven't.

I've asked a question and made a point mate, sorry if this causes you to question your world-view and your interpretation of the Bible if you're not comfortable doing so.

 

[PennEd]

I've commented about this in other threads but thought it worthy of a thread of its very own.

One of the things I find fascinating is how, for some people, non-core beliefs become inextricably linked to their faith.

For example, some people claim that a mathematical derivation of the age of the Earth purely using the Bible yields a result of 6,000 years or so.
Some people accept this as the actual age of the Earth.

Other people also feel that they've discovered something else numerical in the Bible.
Examples:
1. 144,000 people will go to heaven.
2. The date/year that Jesus will return.

Such derivations are of course completely fallacious.

Without even looking at external physical evidence, a simple application of rational thought should set alarm bells ringing...

If you calculate the age of the Earth NOW to be 6,000 years, then in 10 years time your calculation should yield 16,000 years.
But it doesn't!
How do I know?
Because the information you're using to make the calculation hasn't changed, if only the Bible is used.
You'd still get the same result of you calculate the age of the Earth (purely using the Bible) in 10,000 years in the future or 5,000 years in the past.

In other words, this calculation produces a number that doesn't alter with time, as one would expect when calculating age.

But such beliefs are, firstly, non-core and, secondly, beyond the scope of the information and story that the Bible is meant to convey.

The Bible also tells us to keep our wits about us.

So why is it that such blatant untruths become inextricably linked to some people's faith, to the extent that additional stories are created to support the beliefs (e.g. Satan planted fossils to trick us).

It isn't just numeric beliefs either.

In more happy clappy churches you tend to get a lot of 'faith healers' on the speaking ring, for example.
In these types of churches, the more wild the story you're willing to accept without question, the stronger your faith - or so the culture leads you to believe.

A more general view of this leads to the generalised question of when is a belief part of the core religion or part of the culture of the people?

Although I agree somewhat on your main point about non core issues, the rest of your post is incoherent, and littered with strawmen, and faulty premises.

And just because YOU say something is a truth, OR an untruth, doesn't make it so.

 

[p_rehbein]

You played the victim card, not me........just so we are exacting and specific. And, as you did not mention issues you may be having in your OP, then it is clear that the language you used in it was not exacting and specific either was it?

I also see you did not address my concern about your dismissal of faith healing...........hmm..........I KNOW my language was exacting and specific because I used Scripture!

Personally, I believe you owe an apology to any member here who may be part of a Congregation that believes in the Gifts of the Spirit, and the Scriptures I provided. Your dismissal of them as being "happy, clappy churches" is not exactly Christian is it?

 

[JaumeJ]

OK, you've asserted this as confusing and caste a negative light on it.

What examples do you have to substantiate your claim, and how in your example can you show it does this against the "plain talk availed in the Word?"



Not sure I'd pretend to know the hearts of others or their motives as in the above. What new vocabulary have these denominations added? (Scientology and other cults aside)

RCC has added the Sunday misile to its library for readrs who are RCC.

Mary Baker Eddy has added a book to the Bible.

Brigham Young another bonanza of teachigns, not to mention the magic glasses Joseph Smith once possessed in order to be able to read teh mysterious writings on the tablets he found in a basement.

The word, trinity, has caused all kinds of upheaval amongst believers......

This alone is from memory.

If you insist on generating an inquisition agains me, at leaqst know womething abut the subject.

You cannot say "It is not," when you have not a clue as to what it is.

Now enough of the nonsense of attmpting to trap others in their words and study your Bible.

 

[maxwel]

I've been asked this before when I've asked a pertinent question.

Yes, I'm a Christian.

That's great.
I'd love to hear about your conversion experience.


...

 

[p_rehbein]

 

[p_rehbein]

.........anyway..........time to ...........

 

[Adam77]

You played the victim card, not me........just so we are exacting and specific. And, as you did not mention issues you may be having in your OP, then it is clear that the language you used in it was not exacting and specific either was it?

I also see you did not address my concern about your dismissal of faith healing...........hmm..........I KNOW my language was exacting and specific because I used Scripture!

Personally, I believe you owe an apology to any member here who may be part of a Congregation that believes in the Gifts of the Spirit, and the Scriptures I provided. Your dismissal of them as being "happy, clappy churches" is not exactly Christian is it?

Whatever mate.
You're trying to mock me because of the precise nature of the language I use.

Apologies if logical thought is beyond your grasp.

Anyway, I give up with this.
I'll allow you to take this as some kind of 'victory' over me if you wish.

I'll tell you what though, I understand now why in the UK many people who identify as Christians don't associate with the likes of you.

Well done.

F*** this s***, I swear to God now that I will never step inside a Church again.

 

[Adam77]

That's great.
I'd love to hear about your conversion experience.

...

It's a long one, with some private details I'm not comfortable posting on a public forum.
Send me a PM

 

[JaumeJ]

This is a total misrepresentation of what I'm saying.

Firstly, many Church websites have their 'core beliefs' listed on them.
Core beliefs such as Jesus being lord and saviour.

Non-core beliefs are then beliefs that are not core.
This isn't a new word, it's simply using the English language in the correct way.

Secondly, and this isn't aimed at you personally, but I must say that I'm getting a little fed up with the culture in some Churches as well as on here.

By Church culture I mean anover emphasis on monetary giving (debate occured in another thread, and from that many people agree with me).

But I'm starting to see a pattern on here too...

...ask a pertinent of challenging question about something you're grappling with, and if it challenges others there are two things that will happen (that I've seen so far):

1. You'll be asked to confirm that you're actually a Christian.
Your very faith is called into question because you've asked something.

2. If you present an something that is clearly wrong Biblically, other users will quite rightly help you to see why you're wrong.
An example is that I was wrong about sex before marriage.

However, present your thoughts about something pertinent in a way that is logical, both Biblically and scientifically, but which challenges people, and you'll be called 'prideful' and accused of 'trying to impress people'.

I'm genuinely fed up with this.

I'm am a Christian and I'm asking sincere questions.
I just won't have somebody try to tell me that's it's a bad thing to exercise rational thought, indeed Jesus tells us to do just that.

I'm not having a good at you or anybody else really, but I am starting to consider if becoming involved in the wider Christian community is a good thing for me, or if for me it would be better to build my relationship with God on a 1-1 basis.

Call me old fashioned but I believe that legitimate term core belief, is in addition to the vocabulary of the Bible. I have given examples of additions to the Word in another post here...

Whether I recognize the term or not, it is added to language, language of the Bible when applied to it, and although I was a language major, second linguistics, I cannot do away with such tampering with the Word...……..be it Baptist, Momon, Cathholic or whatever. You kow Jesus Christ would nto belong to any denomination of man.....

 

[JaumeJ]

Praise God for His Holy Spirit in the congregation where ever it may be convening, amen.

I love the things I hear about the Quakers and Shakers in their day. They had no particular preacher, and whe they came together they would wait until the Holy Spirit caame down to guide them……….they do not do this anymore, I don't think so anyway. It was a very good way to praise God, by the Holy Sprit...….I love this myself, amen.

 

[preacher4truth]

RCC has added the Sunday misile to its library for readrs who are RCC.

Mary Baker Eddy has added a book to the Bible.

Brigham Young another bonanza of teachigns, not to mention the magic glasses Joseph Smith once possessed in order to be able to read teh mysterious writings on the tablets he found in a basement.

The word, trinity, has caused all kinds of upheaval amongst believers......

This alone is from memory.

If you insist on generating an inquisition agains me, at leaqst know womething abut the subject.

You cannot say "It is not," when you have not a clue as to what it is.

Now enough of the nonsense of attmpting to trap others in their words and study your Bible.

Cults...then an accusation of an inquisition against you? And the rest.

Defensive much?

Wow. Never mind.

 

[Adam77]

Cults...then an accusation of an inquisition against you? And the rest.

Defensive much?

Wow. Never mind.

Question anything and you'll be hounded:

1. You'll be asked to confirm that you're actually a Christian.
Your very faith will be called into question because you've asked something.

2. If you present a case for something that is wrong Biblically, other users will quite rightly help you to see why you're wrong.
An example is that I was wrong about sex before marriage.

However, present your thoughts about something pertinent in a way that is logical, both Biblically and scientifically, but which challenges people, and you'll be called 'prideful' and accused of 'trying to impress people'.

3. You'll be accused of saying something you haven't, and even the most clear description of your thoughts will be purposely derailed and mocked.

I've said it already but I say it again, I swear to God that I will never step foot inside a Church again to worship.
I'm done with people like this.

 

[Adam77]

In actual fact, this reaction is reminiscent of other experiences I've had in the past (both online and in real life) when I've 'dared' to ask basic questions or make blindingly obvious statements that are logical both Biblically and scientifically.

I give up completely. Every time I've engaged with Christianity I've found myself being stung by people like this.
Now that I'm in a position such that I've been baptised and consider myself a Christian, it's worse.

I give up completely.

I sincerely wish you all the best.

I'm glad I've had this experience though, at least I can put this aspect of my life to bed and not keep coming back to get stung again.

 

[preacher4truth]

Question anything and you'll be hounded:

1. You'll be asked to confirm that you're actually a Christian.
Your very faith will be called into question because you've asked something.

2. If you present a case for something that is wrong Biblically, other users will quite rightly help you to see why you're wrong.
An example is that I was wrong about sex before marriage.

However, present your thoughts about something pertinent in a way that is logical, both Biblically and scientifically, but which challenges people, and you'll be called 'prideful' and accused of 'trying to impress people'.

3. You'll be accused of saying something you haven't, and even the most clear description of your thoughts will be purposely derailed and mocked.

I've said it already but I say it again, I swear to God that I will never step foot inside a Church again to worship.
I'm done with people like this.

Well, you've been to some bad churches maybe, but there are many good friendly churches.

"Jaumej" well, I never knew, he is above asking for evidence, when he speaks, do not question HIM, he is, up up up there and lofty, snooty snoot!

Ahem;

I mean his response was just ridiculous, LOL!!!!