Eph 2:5 - EVEN when we were DEAD (spiritually) in sins, hath he quickened (made spiritually alive and given the Holy spirit) us together with Christ. No spiritual believing before being made spiritually alive. If not so, then how do you interpret this verse?
Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot
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The apostles were instructed to preach to the Lost sheep (if they are sheep they are already in the family of God) of the house of Israel (God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel) so, it is to Jacob's house, which represents God's elect. God did not instruct them to preach to the natural man that cannot understand spiritual things.
You are trying to make religious doctrine out of the use of a word that basically means chosen. Your reference in 1 Timothy to elect angels simply means chosen messengers. It has nothing to do with Christ referring to the elect in the gospels.
Eph 2:5 is not a standalone verse. We are to read God’s Word with discernment.
Eph 1:13 (and other verses in Scripture) clearly indicates we hear, then believe, then we are sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.
Your continued insistence that "hearing" and/or "believing" on the part of man constitutes "works" does not make it so.
You are trying to make religious doctrine out of the use of a word that basically means chosen. Your reference in 1 Timothy to elect angels simply means chosen messengers. It has nothing to do with Christ referring to the elect in the gospels.
I am using this in regards to the meaning of the word elect. It never, ever means elect unto salvation. The word elect as used throughout the word refers to service, not salvation.
"My people are lost sheep; their shepherds have led them astray, causing them to roam the mountains. They have wandered from mountain to hill; they have forgotten their resting place." Jeremiah 50:6
...yet, does not Romans 9:26/Hosea 1:10 [re: Israel] (contrasted with Romans 9:25/Hosea 2:23b re: the Gentiles) suggest that they were called "My people" and then called "Not My people," before they will again be called "My people" in the future? ("AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, that in the place where it WAS SAID UNTO THEM, Ye are NOT My people; there shall they be called the children of the living God."--and note Romans 11:15, 25-28 in relation to this, "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.")
[note Ezekiel 39:7's "My people Israel" and what will be "made known" in the midst of them]
...yet, does not Romans 9:26/Hosea 1:10 [re: Israel] (contrasted with Romans 9:25/Hosea 2:23b re: the Gentiles) suggest that they were called "My people" and then called "Not My people," before they will again be called "My people" in the future? ("AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, that in the place where it WAS SAID UNTO THEM, Ye are NOT My people; there shall they be called the children of the living God."--and note Romans 11:15, 25-28 in relation to this, "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.")
[note Ezekiel 39:7's "My people Israel" and what will be "made known" in the midst of them]
If you make it a requirement for eternal life then it is by the works of man. I have already explained "the earnest of our inheritance" in Eph 1:13. We should include all of the scriptures when we are seeking the truth and not avoid any.
This has reference to the grafting in of the Gentiles. No one lost their eternal salvation through this process. You do realize when the scriptures talk about Israel, it is talking about Jacob. God, in Geneses. changed Jacob's name to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel.
How about you include the first part of Eph 1:13? Instead of focusing only on the earnest, then hopping over to Eph 2:5 to explain how the believer receives the earnest, which is poor workmanship on your part, just have faith that God means what He says and says what He means in Eph 1:13.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
First hear
Then believe
Then sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession unto the praise of His glory.
Elect refers to "a called out people". and they are the ones that God gave to his Son to die for. and all of those he died for will be in heaven because Jesus said he would not lose even one.
First - regeneration Then; Believe Then; receive the earnest, down payment, of our inheritance.
Some of the best days had by Calvinists were back in 1692 in the little town of Salem, Massachusetts. I guess God predestined the murder of innocent girls by elect zealots.
Here is what you state in your post:
first — born again
then — believe
then — born again (receive the Holy Spirit of promise)
do you not see the error in your statement???You are so indoctrinated with your dogma that you do not even comprehend the knot which needs to be untangled in order for you to simply believe what is written:
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
First hear
Then believe
Then sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession unto the praise of His glory.
It is interesting to note that the date of the Calvinistic London Baptist Confession was 1689. It is more or less a replica of the Westminster Confession of Faith. The other interesting thing to note is that originally Baptists and Anabaptists were not among the Reformed, and indeed they were hated by the Reformers.
What kind of service? That which is separate from salvation ? How would that work out? God is not served by human hands. It is God who works within His servants both to will and do His good pleasure. If it is God who performs that which he appoints to us. Why then service and not salvation? Why not both? After all he our confidence. He promises us if has begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it to the end.
As many as he has elected to salvation they alone will come.
Not in Scripture it doesn't, just in Calvin's head. Can you show proof of Scripture with the term "elect"? Jesus Christ is God's elect. Is Jesus in need of salvation? What about the elect angels?
They felt it was open season to burn our groups at the stake. The reformers, in this case, became the beast they were supposedly reforming.
Calvinists certainly have a rich history if anyone considers killing their rivals and burning teenage girls in Salem something to be proud of. But it's not their fault, right? Their god made them do it, II Corinthians 4:4.
Being sealed is not being born again. When we are regenerated and receive the Holy Spirit it gives us the ability to began to discern spiritual things. After we have been revealed some truths by the Holy Spirit we learn that the Holy Spirit that we received in regeneration is the earnest (down payment - security) of our inheritance until our redemption (Christ comes back for us). Believing before regeneration will not harmonize with the fact stated in Eph 2:5 where it says that the natural man was dead spiritually (unable to discern spiritual things) when he was regenerated.
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