Because of the unbelief of the Jews Gentiles are grafted in.

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Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#61
Sep 20, 2018
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#61
posthuman said:
peace

2 Thessalonians 3:16
Now the Lord of peace Himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord [be] with you all.

love

Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

compassion

Matthew 9:36
But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.



how can you say these qualities have nothing to do with Jesus Christ Son of God?

do you not know Him, not at all, Q?
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It is a one sided picture of Jesus Christ. It's why the world loves this Christ and associates him with Gandhi, and Buddha. But once you start preaching and teaching the things Christ preached and taught, you are hated, as Christ is hated.

(Matt. 10:34-36) "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

The believer may have peace with God, and forgiveness, but he won't have peace in this world. When you present the real Jesus Christ, the world will turn on you. If you just present Him as a Gandhi type, the world will love you.

Quantrill
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#62
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#62
Quantrill said:
It is a one sided picture of Jesus Christ. It's why the world loves this Christ and associates him with Gandhi, and Buddha. But once you start preaching and teaching the things Christ preached and taught, you are hated, as Christ is hated.

(Matt. 10:34-36) "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

The believer may have peace with God, and forgiveness, but he won't have peace in this world. When you present the real Jesus Christ, the world will turn on you. If you just present Him as a Gandhi type, the world will love you.

Quantrill
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Isn't this the truth. Today's church selectively reads all that caters to acceptance of living for the flesh as they expound on the truths of love, but they ignore living in the spirit.

Living in the spirit of Christ in todays church is labeled works for salvation. Anything that reflects God the Father is labeled Judaism and scoffed at.
 
E

Embankment

Senior Member
#64
Feb 28, 2017
703
196
43
#64
Quantrill said:
It is a one sided picture of Jesus Christ. It's why the world loves this Christ and associates him with Gandhi, and Buddha. But once you start preaching and teaching the things Christ preached and taught, you are hated, as Christ is hated.

(Matt. 10:34-36) "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

The believer may have peace with God, and forgiveness, but he won't have peace in this world. When you present the real Jesus Christ, the world will turn on you. If you just present Him as a Gandhi type, the world will love you.

Quantrill
Click to expand...
There are those who will hate Christians because of the new wonderful message of freedom. We are not to hate them back in the old way. We are to love our enemies and pray for them.
In Christ there is no hate at all.
If you don’t get that then you don’t understand what Jesus and God is period.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#65
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
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#65
Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. Tim 2:14
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#66
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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#66
Embankment said:
There are those who will hate Christians because of the new wonderful message of freedom. We are not to hate them back in the old way. We are to love our enemies and pray for them.
In Christ there is no hate at all.
If you don’t get that then you don’t understand what Jesus and God is period.
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Right, but where did he suggest otherwise?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#67
Jul 31, 2013
37,782
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#67
Quantrill said:
It is a one sided picture of Jesus Christ. It's why the world loves this Christ and associates him with Gandhi, and Buddha. But once you start preaching and teaching the things Christ preached and taught, you are hated, as Christ is hated.

(Matt. 10:34-36) "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

The believer may have peace with God, and forgiveness, but he won't have peace in this world. When you present the real Jesus Christ, the world will turn on you. If you just present Him as a Gandhi type, the world will love you.

Quantrill
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the thing is, Q, Embankment said teachings of Christ were peace, love, compassion and forgiveness. you disagreed curtly, and you did not say, yes but there is more. you gave the impression that no, Christ did not teach these things.

of course there is infinitely more to the Infinite God. but to love one another, to be peacemakers, to have and show compassion, to forgive - this is exactly what He taught us to do.

His disciples wrongly expected Him to violently overthrow their government, like you also wish, but He corrected them.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#68
#68
Quantrill said:
You are correct, and I see I have made a mistake. In my post #(43) I indicated the natural branches were not grafted in, but I see now in (Rom. 11:24) that they are grafted in though they are natural branches. "...how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree."

Quantrill
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can you explain why it matters that someone from the nations can be "grafted" in to Israel?
 
E

Embankment

Senior Member
#70
Feb 28, 2017
703
196
43
#70
posthuman said:
the thing is, Q, Embankment said teachings of Christ were peace, love, compassion and forgiveness. you disagreed curtly, and you did not say, yes but there is more. you gave the impression that no, Christ did not teach these things.

of course there is infinitely more to the Infinite God. but to love one another, to be peacemakers, to have and show compassion, to forgive - this is exactly what He taught us to do.

His disciples wrongly expected Him to violently overthrow their government, like you also wish, but He corrected them.
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Perfect!!!
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#71
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#71
There is a problem. Our churches need housecleaning. We are grafted in, yet in our churches they say God is not faithful to the Jews and God had gentiles take their place. It isn't that they know they are grafted in, they feel we take the place of the Jew in God's eyes.

Our churches often label words of God our Father Judaism.

Judaism was addressed, it was when Christians (Jew and gentile) used Jewish traditions and rituals that led people to true obedience as law instead of being led by the Holy Spirit to the true law. The church has willy nilly thrown in the Sabbath and the feasts celebrating our redemption to Judaism. Not only that but there are traditions established by the church even more powerful than the traditions of the Hebrews and they have assigned them places as binding, they say, as scripture.

When love of the Lord and His word is applied it needs to be handled. we need to handle all this with love but it needs to be handled.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#72
Jul 18, 2017
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#72
Quantrill said:
My point was that the Jews were not and are not grafted in. They are the natural branches. Only the Gentiles are grafted in. Correct?
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Correct. I already showed you that BELIEVING ISRAEL was the *good olive tree* into which the Gentiles were grafted as branches from the *wild olive tree*. So the Church was initially a Jewish Church, into which Gentiles were grafted, and this corresponds to the fact that the New Covenant was given to Israel and is now for all both Jew and Gentile. Thus Paul says that Gentile believers are not to be high minded.
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#73
Sep 20, 2018
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#73
posthuman said:
one facet of Christ is still a facet of Christ.

why would you deny Him?
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Because it doesn't represent the true Christ. It's Gandhi dressed up as Christ.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#74
Sep 20, 2018
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#74
Embankment said:
There are those who will hate Christians because of the new wonderful message of freedom. We are not to hate them back in the old way. We are to love our enemies and pray for them.
In Christ there is no hate at all.
If you don’t get that then you don’t understand what Jesus and God is period.
Click to expand...
Christians are not hated because of any wonderful message of freedom. They are hated because of their identity with Jesus Christ. They are hated because the world hates Jesus Christ. The world loves Gandhi and the Jesus made up like a Gandhi.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#75
Sep 20, 2018
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#75
posthuman said:
the thing is, Q, Embankment said teachings of Christ were peace, love, compassion and forgiveness. you disagreed curtly, and you did not say, yes but there is more. you gave the impression that no, Christ did not teach these things.

of course there is infinitely more to the Infinite God. but to love one another, to be peacemakers, to have and show compassion, to forgive - this is exactly what He taught us to do.

His disciples wrongly expected Him to violently overthrow their government, like you also wish, but He corrected them.
Click to expand...
Yes I did disagree, because that is not Jesus Christ. You may as well speak of a Gandhi or a Buddha. He centered on the teachings that would associate Jesus as just one like those. Sounds so good and loving, but is not the real Jesus. Yes, there is peace, forgiveness, for those who come to Jesus Christ. And only for those who come to Christ. Christ didn't just come telling everyone yall need to be good little girls and boys, and love everyone, and forgive everyone. His message was there is no peace, no forgivness except in Him. No other way.

There is more to God and more to Jesus Christ Who is God in the flesh. If you want to be a peacemaker, then why preach Jesus Christ who causes division and strife and martyrdom. Where is your peace now?

The disciples did not wrongly expect Jesus Christ to destroy the unbelieving Romans or any other Gentile nation for that matter. Scripture is clear that the Messiah, will do that. And Jesus Christ will do that. They did not understand the two comings of Jesus Christ and that the first was not for that purpose. But the Jesus Who returns is not going to be going around preaching peace and forgiveness. He is going to set things straight. He will be covered with blood again, but it won't be His this time. (Is. 63:1-6)

Quantrill
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#76
Sep 20, 2018
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#76
jaybird88 said:
can you explain why it matters that someone from the nations can be "grafted" in to Israel?
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I believe it has more to do with being grafted into the Abrahamic Covenant which is the root of the Olive Tree. (Rom. 11:16-18) Israel was the natural product of the root. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, then Jacob's name changed to Israel, then the 12 sons of Israel become the nation of Israel. Israel was the natural tree from all the covenant promises given to Abraham, which the later Palestinian Covenant, Davidic Covenant, New Covenant, would be part of.

To Israel was given the laws of God. From her would come the Messiah to redeem. The promises of her being the leading nation over the world with the Messiah her King ruling in Jerusalem was to her alone. The promises of her being the priestly nation over the world, ministering salvation over the world, was to her and her alone. She is the natural branches. For Gentiles to be saved they must come into these blessing given to Israel. They must come into this Abrahamic Covenant. But they are not the ones to whom all these promises were given. Thus they must be grafted into this Abrahamic Covenant.

Now we are no longer aliens to Israel. We share a commonwealth. (Eph. 2:11-13) We don't become Israel. We do not inherit all the promises given to Israel. But we are attached to the Abrahamic Covenant, and more precisely, the New Covenant.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

Well-known member
#77
Sep 20, 2018
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#77
Nehemiah6 said:
Correct. I already showed you that BELIEVING ISRAEL was the *good olive tree* into which the Gentiles were grafted as branches from the *wild olive tree*. So the Church was initially a Jewish Church, into which Gentiles were grafted, and this corresponds to the fact that the New Covenant was given to Israel and is now for all both Jew and Gentile. Thus Paul says that Gentile believers are not to be high minded.
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I corrected my original statement. See posts #(43) and #(56). See also (Rom. 11:24)

Quantrill
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#78
Feb 10, 2017
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#78
Still pushing "Israel" as a special nation I see.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

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#79
Aug 3, 2018
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#79
^ In "the Church which is His body" (during "this present age [singular]") there is indeed NO DISTINCTION.

However, the Spirit informs us via Paul's pen, of this:

Romans 11 -

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in [G1525].

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them [Israel], when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they [Israel] are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [/irrevocable].
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#80
Jul 2, 2011
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#80
Israel is all who ae with Yahweh, God. Jews are all who praise God.

Anyone who thinks the former earthly Israel is of God, Yahweh, and Jews are only those of the tribe of Judah may know much but they are missing on a lot.

Why do people think Pilate put the sign over our Savior on the Cross with the inscription King of the Jews in Hebrew, Greek and Latin? It is not the first time a person has been given to prophesy without realizing it himself.

Jesus is my King!
 
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