J
Because of the unbelief of the Jews Gentiles are grafted in.
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Reread my post, and you will find i SAID NOTHING AS PER THE CROWDS BEING NON-jEWS. aFTER READING THE Word FOR A HALF CENTURY, i WOULD BE very dense not knowing that Jesus came first for the Jews then for the Greek later.
Bear in mind the Jews were Jews by their lineage. There was no such thing as the group of denominations called Judaism as we have today. Jews were Jews by blood.
J
jaybird88
Guest
Ok?
So back to Jesus. There were crowds that followed Him everywhere and those that wished to kill Him. Which group best represents the majority?
According to the Word that group would be mankind since all men have sinned...……….. I must confess, reading some of your posts I get thye impression you ae not truely caring about dialogue. God bless you always..
Wild olive tree believers (gentiles) and the cultivated olive tree believers (Jews), grafted together in the new covenant to be ONE in Christ Jesus
Can you imagine the narrative implied by such thoughts?
Lets start from the beginning.
The creator of all things foreknew, all this is in the scriptures we're all familiar with so those won't be added to this brief narrative, those who would come to repentance through his only begotten son Jesus before the world came to exist. Our omniscient God knew this before he planted that one tree in the garden paradise that would cause the entire salvation narrative itself to become necessary. And he'd previously allowed his adversary to live on earth and become lord here before God created humans. And that lord of this world not only entered the garden paradise God made but knew the one tree that was forbidden fruit.
We all know the rest.
Now, we're to believe besides the patriarchs of the old testament being saved by their faith alone back then, that the new generations would be saved and their sins while in flesh washed clean for all time, if they accepted God sacrificed himself in the flesh of Jesus so as to guarantee eternal life for ....just the Jews.
When the whole world's people that outnumber that one race were not included in that salvation plan.
Until, the Jews denied Jesus was that Messiah of the salvation prophecies.
Then God extended his grace that was reserved initially only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, (that's the important factor there that most of us don't get. Not "just the Jews" but the house of Israel!) , so that the rest of the world's races , gentiles , could be grafted in and saved.
Making John 3:16 in need of a fast edit?
"For God so loved the Jews that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever among the Jews that believeth in him would not perish but have everlasting life...."
Oops, the Jews didn't accept Jesus according to omniscients planning and foreknowledge. Well then, "I'll" (God) will give the gentiles a shot.
"For God so loved the
...and speaking of the context of Romans 9-11 (per my earlier 2 posts on this), both Calvinists AND Arminianists misconstrue the context (thus changing its true meaning): the Calvinists stating that the context is about individual salvation UP UNTIL the parts in Rom11 where [they say] it CHANGES to now be referring to "nations"; and the Arminianists stating that it's about individual salvation all the way through [these 3 chpts], thus the reason [they say] one can LOSE (or forfeit) salvation. 
Both of them are incorrect (per context 
).
Both of them are incorrect (per context ).
M
Miri
Guest
So many strange ideas.
In a nutshell.
God chose a people and set his promise/seal on them via circumcision.
He made sure he kept a remnant of His chosen people at all times to bring
about His plan of salvation.
There are hundred of bible verses through the OT which elude to
God’s plan of salvation and lots of symbolism. For example, the scape goat,
Passover, the sin sacrifice. even the very construction of the tabernacle.
Oh and don’t forget the garden of Eden and everything that happened there.
It was always God’s intention to formulate a plan to bring salvation to the world.
It was never just for the Jews.
God also made various promises and blessings for example to
Noah, to Abraham, to David. God never breaks His word.
In Christ all that symbolism, blessings, promises, seals etc are all fulfilled.
The verses about grafting were a way of explaining gentiles were also included
in God’s redemption plan. It was never the case that only the Jews or only the Gentiles
could be saved, it was both. As someone has said plenty of Jews turned to Christ and
they still do. The bible itself has verses about how new wine couldn’t be put in old
Wine skin. Ie you can’t try to make the perfect sacrifice of Jesus and the penalty He
paid, fit into the old way of doing things the animal sacrifices etc. It’s why we have the
Old covenant and the New Covenant.
The grafting verses are part of a wonderful story the revealing chapters in a centuries
old plan. That plan had a beginning, a middle and an end.
The final epilogue is yet to be seen when Jesus comes again.
In a nutshell.
God chose a people and set his promise/seal on them via circumcision.
He made sure he kept a remnant of His chosen people at all times to bring
about His plan of salvation.
There are hundred of bible verses through the OT which elude to
God’s plan of salvation and lots of symbolism. For example, the scape goat,
Passover, the sin sacrifice. even the very construction of the tabernacle.
Oh and don’t forget the garden of Eden and everything that happened there.
It was always God’s intention to formulate a plan to bring salvation to the world.
It was never just for the Jews.
God also made various promises and blessings for example to
Noah, to Abraham, to David. God never breaks His word.
In Christ all that symbolism, blessings, promises, seals etc are all fulfilled.
The verses about grafting were a way of explaining gentiles were also included
in God’s redemption plan. It was never the case that only the Jews or only the Gentiles
could be saved, it was both. As someone has said plenty of Jews turned to Christ and
they still do. The bible itself has verses about how new wine couldn’t be put in old
Wine skin. Ie you can’t try to make the perfect sacrifice of Jesus and the penalty He
paid, fit into the old way of doing things the animal sacrifices etc. It’s why we have the
Old covenant and the New Covenant.
The grafting verses are part of a wonderful story the revealing chapters in a centuries
old plan. That plan had a beginning, a middle and an end.
The final epilogue is yet to be seen when Jesus comes again.
Only the Jews would not be grafted. Correct? They are the natural branches.
Quantrill
M
Miri
Guest
Oh and another point which completely turns everything about on
it’s head. The Jewish authorities of the day, had to reject Jesus.
If they had accepted Him. He would not have been crucified!
How about that for a turn of events. Unless the Jews had called for Him
to be crucified (remember Herod wanted to let Him go but the crowds
shouted crucify Him). The sacrifice on the cross would not have happened!
it’s head. The Jewish authorities of the day, had to reject Jesus.
If they had accepted Him. He would not have been crucified!
How about that for a turn of events. Unless the Jews had called for Him
to be crucified (remember Herod wanted to let Him go but the crowds
shouted crucify Him). The sacrifice on the cross would not have happened!
Jesus said salvation is of the Jews, and when a Gentile is saved they become a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel.
Gentiles were grafted in to the tree, Israel, for it is Israel all the way, and the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb, are written in the New Jerusalem.
And there is a lot of hypocrisy among the Gentile saints, and diversities among them in what they believe, although it is one book with one truth.
But such is the way of the world as they fight over their beliefs, but you would not think it would be among people that claim the Bible.
Which goes to show that many people are not led of the Spirit.
The Bible says there is but one God, the Father, and one God, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
The Bible only attributes the Father as being God.
One God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.
If they would preach one God, the Father, maybe the Jews would listen more, for they knew that God appeared before Abraham twice in human form, so if they would say it is the one God in human form maybe they would listen, instead of people preaching a trinity.
In the Old Testament the Jews only knew of God, the Father, and not a trinity, and that was their belief, and the Father allowed them to believe that.
If there were a trinity why would the Father allow the Jews to believe He is the only God.
But the Jews knew the Father was a Holy Spirit, and could not have a Son who is a God, for they believed in only one God, the Father, like the New Testament also declares.
But if they preach that the Son is the humanity of God, and stop saying He is a God, they might listen.
But the Bible does say that Israel is blinded in part, until salvation is not available to the Gentiles, and so all Israel shall be saved.
So for the most part for now they will abide by the Old Testament, until that time comes, and God turns them to the truth.
Gospel went to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles. (if that is what you are asking)
True. But Gentiles were grafted into the GOOD OLIVE TREE of believing Israel -- Hebrew Christians (see Romans 9-11). The first church -- the church of Jerusalem -- was strictly Jewish. Then the Samaritans were grafted in. Then the household of Cornelius was grafted in. But all Gentiles were from *the wild tree*.
The disobedience of Israel (in general) to the Gospel gave the Gentiles an opening into the Church, since they believed the Gospel more readily than the Jews. But there were thousands of Hebrew Christians before the Gentiles entered the Church.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41) ALL SAVED JEWS
Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand. (Acts 4:4) ALL SAVED JEWS
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. (Acta 4:32) ALL SAVED JEWS
And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women. (Acts 5:14) ALL SAVED JEWS
Show the scripture about the GOOD olive tree.
Romans 9 is about pots, all kinds of pots, even CRACKED pots.
Romans 9 is about pots, all kinds of pots, even CRACKED pots.
ROMANS 11
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, soare the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Warning to Gentile Christians: Be not highminded, but fear.