Question...

[Locutus]

Too bad he is no longer with us to see you have found out his duplicity! Hopefully, he can read it from outside, and maybe God will show him the errors of his ways, and what the truth is.

Just like Arnold Schwarzenegger, "he'll be back" and then terminated

 

[Locutus]

HASTINGS ENCYCLO. OF REL. – Christian Baptism was administered using the words, “IN THE NAME OF JESUS.” Vol. 2, Page 377.
The use of a Trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in early Church History. Vol. 2, Page 378.
Baptism was always in name of the Lord Jesus until time of Justin Martyr when Triune formula used. Vol. 2, Page 389.

This is another questionable source citation - I looked through Hastings Encyclopedia vol 2 here, page 377 and 378 - I don't see any mention:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.65373/page/n401

 

[Locutus]

CANNEY ENCYCLO. OF REL. – The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of Trinity Doctrine in 2nd century. Page 53.

The above is somewhat of a vague appeal to authority.

Maurice A. Canney - An Encylopedia of Religions.

https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaofr00cann/page/52

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I posted earlier with a ? but it said no such page could be found, so I thought I'd try again...


He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,
Colossians 1:15‭-‬16‭, ‬18‭-‬19 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/col.1.15-19.NASB


Ok here is my question. No wait, let me preface it by making it clear what I am not addressing. I know this scripture makes it perfectly clear…


for it was for the Father's good pleasure that the fullness of Himself to dwell within His son.


I get that Yeshua is a deity. I get that He is of His Father, in a way, that separates Himself from all other, that He was there from the beginning, also that He is the firstborn from the dead, He is a part of the Godhead. As best as I am able to understand it is... the Three are separate but also One.


I have looked at so many translations, and the verse Col 1:15 has me wanting to pick your brains a bit. I hope the question I am about to ask is not offensive but if so, deal with it. Hahaha...jk. Just trying to keep the tone of this thread respectful, lol. I know that I'm talking to a group of far more seasoned than myself (spiritually that is, lol) bible scholars, theologians and apologists, so once again enlighten me with your thoughts on this matter, please.


He is the visible image of the invisible God. He is supreme over all creation,
Colossians (Col) 1:15 CJB
https://bible.com/bible/1275/col.1.15.CJB


He is the exact living image [the essential manifestation] of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible], the firstborn [the preeminent one, the sovereign, and the originator] of all creation.
COLOSSIANS 1:15 AMP
https://bible.com/bible/1588/col.1.15.AMP



Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Colossians 1:15 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/col.1.15.KJV


I must admit that I'm stumbling a bit with asking this correctly. Is this scripture that seems to suggest that Yeshua was a creation of the Father, the firstborn of every creation, merely addressing the Flesh manifestation of Yeshua?

God has existed eternally, He is the I AM, you seem rather to be asking how the 3 are 1.
“The ONE true God eternally exists as three distinct Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal, co-eternal, and one in essence.

 

[CharliRenee]

So basically

God has existed eternally, He is the I AM, you seem rather to be asking how the 3 are 1.
“The ONE true God eternally exists as three distinct Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal, co-eternal, and one in essence.

No, I just was trying to understand the firstborn created words.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

So basically

No, I just was trying to understand the firstborn created words.

ok, sounds like a good WORD study to do

 

[CharliRenee]

ok, sounds like a good WORD study to do

Oh you know that is a great idea. Thank you.

 

[PS]

Oh you know that is a great idea. Thank you.

Look up 'primogeniture.'

The firstborn is pre-eminent. They are the head of the household, they are the most powerful and they absolute ruler. To know more read about 'primogeniture.'

In the Bible Ephraim is the Lord's "firstborn," not because he was born first, he wasn't, Manasseh was born first, BUT Ephraim was the pre-eminent one. It was the same for King David who is the Lord's "firstborn." This has nothing to do with his birth, but his status. David is pre-eminent among men and Jesus is the "Firstborn" or pre-eminent, the most powerful, the absolute ruler of the Godhead, and that means Jesus in heaven is the Word and the Word is God.

The verses below tell us Jesus is God the Creator who is GOD ON EARTH AND IN HEAVEN.

Christ is the visible likeness of the invisible God. He is the first-born Son, superior to all created things. For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him. Christ existed before all things, and in union with him all things have their proper place. Col 1:15-17

 

[CharliRenee]

Look up 'primogeniture.'

The firstborn is pre-eminent. They are the head of the household, they are the most powerful and they absolute ruler. To know more read about 'primogeniture.'

In the Bible Ephraim is the Lord's "firstborn," not because he was born first, he wasn't, Manasseh was born first, BUT Ephraim was the pre-eminent one. It was the same for King David who is the Lord's "firstborn." This has nothing to do with his birth, but his status. David is pre-eminent among men and Jesus is the "Firstborn" or pre-eminent, the most powerful, the absolute ruler of the Godhead, and that means Jesus in heaven is the Word and the Word is God.

The verses below tell us Jesus is God the Creator who is GOD ON EARTH AND IN HEAVEN.

Christ is the visible likeness of the invisible God. He is the first-born Son, superior to all created things. For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him. Christ existed before all things, and in union with him all things have their proper place. Col 1:15-17

Loving that word, thank you
primogeniture, he right of succession belonging to the firstborn child, especially the feudal rule by which the whole real estate of an intestate passed to the eldest son. Thank you for your input.

 

[PS]

Loving that word, thank you
primogeniture, he right of succession belonging to the firstborn child, especially the feudal rule by which the whole real estate of an intestate passed to the eldest son. Thank you for your input.

This means the whole of creation passed to the Son Jesus Christ while he was on the earth.

Previously Jesus Immanuel had created everything as the WORD who is God.

John 1:14 tells us Jesus is the WORD and John 1:1 tells us the WORD was God.

Isn't that just wonderful!

 

[ionten]

Hi, trofimus here.

I got banned for "Constant undermining of the veracity of Scripture".

Nevermind, its time to move on. I am becoming a Christian Centrist and it does not fit too well with the conservatism on this website.

I am posting this just for your info so that you know why I am not responding, because I can see that I have some new conversations and alerts, but I am not able to read them.

I do not know if moderators will leave this message here or not, but I do not know how else I can give you the info.

I will not use this new account for any other public posting, I respect the ban. I cannot use private conversation on this new account, so I am posting this publicly.

God bless you all.

 

[Absolutely]

The Jew never taught there was an actual hell for sinners. Jesus was a Jew and believed the same thing. But in Luke, we have a story of the hell the Jews and God never claimed that existed. The term for hell in the Hebrew is for the grave, not a literal holding place of lost souls. That clearly is an add on. For one Matthew and Luke mirror each other detail for detail but Matthew has nothing concerning this story of Lazarus and the rich man. Clearly, Jesus never spoke about the rich man and Lazarus.

People began using the Latin language (vulgate) 700 years after Isaiah was here and gone. But in his Book written in Aramaic/Hebrew is a Latin Vulgate word "Lucifer." And once again, Latin Vulgate was not used until 700 years later. So, how did that Latin Vulgate word get in there? And who did speak Latin Vulgate when it was spoken? The Romans who later became the Roman Catholics. Clearly the word Lucifer is an add on.

There are several examples I can provide you. So yes, it is possible and more likely since we have a confession and it is written in the Catholic Encyclopedia...that...Mathew 28:19 was changed.

And their acknowledgement of changing Matthew 28:19 means you are baptized the way the Catholics baptized, not how Jesus taught hahahahahahaha suckers!

QUOTE;"That clearly is an add on. For one Matthew and Luke mirror each other detail for detail but Matthew has nothing concerning this story of Lazarus and the rich man. Clearly, Jesus never spoke about the rich man and Lazarus"

WHAT A STRETCH.
That dog wont hunt.
Thats like saying " Jesus never used a knife,and since its not in the bible it HAS to be true"

Keep trying though. Someone will follow along. They always do.

Oh,btw,what is that consequence for changing verses around?

 

[Absolutely]

I found probably the most concrete evidence outside personal opinion. These are actual encyclopedia's that copied from the Catholic Encyclopedia claimed. So this knowledge has been around for a very long time.


BRITANICA ENCYCLO. – The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son & Holy Ghost by Catholic Church in the second century. 11th Edition, Vol 3, page 365-366.


BRITANICA ENCYCLO. – Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ. Vol. 3, page 82.


CANNEY ENCYCLO. OF REL. – The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of Trinity Doctrine in 2nd century. Page 53.


CATHOLIC ENCYCLO. – Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church. Vol. 2, Page 263.


HASTINGS ENCYCLO. OF REL. – Christian Baptism was administered using the words, “IN THE NAME OF JESUS.” Vol. 2, Page 377.
The use of a Trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in early Church History. Vol. 2, Page 378.
Baptism was always in name of the Lord Jesus until time of Justin Martyr when Triune formula used. Vol. 2, Page 389.

Just to be safe,I'm gonna cut that out of my bible and the part where the father and Holy Spirit were invoked at Jesus's baptism.
I can't believe how the Holy Spirit could have overlooked your wisdom.
The audacity of Him showing up and desecrating Jesus's baptism.

You really showed us huh?

 

[Absolutely]

I gave you what Elohim means in Hebrew (Singular ONE GOD). So no, the Hebrew/Jews never believed God was 3 person throughout entire Old Testament and Jesus (I AM) creator of all was here from day 1 with Adam.

Obviously, if the Hebrews know God is only ONE PERSON, why DON'T YOU?


See ya later Brothers and sisters in Christ!!

I showed you GOD HIMSELF testified OF HIMSELF as a plurality.
FACT
You could not respond.

Check. You are wrong....and busted

 

[Absolutely]

There were 2 baptisms. John's and Jesus'.
Mat 28 in the recieved greek text says Father,Son,and Holy Spirit.

No conflict in the KJV.

Greek ,textus receptus, is a recognized authority.