Literal to the Book of Revelation or "THE BOOK

[Hevosmies]

Oh, that's what it "simply" means.

Yup. Thank goodness you have me here to set you straight.

 

[luigi]

We Christians are all guilty of majoring in the minor. My point is that every effort to name the Antichrist, has been fruitless. If anything this “Boy who cried wolf” game we play will inoculate the masses rather than warn them. The message is clear, much destruction and death will proceed the false prophet. The beast could be a man, or political group, or even something else. We do know that love and caring for the lost and broken hearted will turn many to Christ now...before the death toll rises. I love a good mystery too but solving the who’s who in endtime prophecy seems like a waste of valuable time.

I can understand your perspective about loving your neighbor, as this is the great commandment, but we are also told to "watch" when the signs in Mark 13, Matthew 24, and Luke 21, of the present end times appear. This is when the abomination of desolation along with beast and his number make their appearance, and so I find it prudent to keep watch and try to figure out what this number that the Lord saw so pertinent for someone to figure out means.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Chapters 2 and 3 in Revelation were directed to the 7 churches in Asia to overcome their carnal inclinations, and so are also meant for all throughout the current age to likewise overcome.
Revelation 4 through 22, however, regard events after 95 AD when John received the Revelation.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

And when did John write that? LONG time ago when Revelation prophecy was still future.......Today it is history.
JOhn looked forward while we look back. All prophey to the Jews has been fulfilled. (IE DAniel) Only prophecy to the church is Christ coming for His people yet to be fulfilled (unless you talk to a preterist)

 

[luigi]

And when did John write that? LONG time ago when Revelation prophecy was still future.......Today it is history.
JOhn looked forward while we look back. All prophey to the Jews has been fulfilled. (IE DAniel) Only prophecy to the church is Christ coming for His people yet to be fulfilled (unless you talk to a preterist)

GraceAndTruth,
John penned Revelation circa 95 AD, some 20+ years after the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.
The events described in Revelation chapters 4 through 22 thereby correspond to events after 95 AD.
As such the events describing the ten horned beast in Daniel 7 being the same ten horned beast in Revelation 13 would correspond to an event after 95 AD.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

GraceAndTruth,
John penned Revelation circa 95 AD, some 20+ years after the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem.
The events described in Revelation chapters 4 through 22 thereby correspond to events after 95 AD.
As such the events describing the ten horned beast in Daniel 7 being the same ten horned beast in Revelation 13 would correspond to an event after 95 AD.

Daniel points to a future ...that for us is PAST.....
Josephus leaves no doubt about the events of that period and he was there as eye witness. He speaks of earthquakes that killed hundreds, the results of WAR are starvation, disease and destruction of rivers, etc. ( Josephus 'Antiquities' book 12 for history.)

John's Revelation was to 7 churches in Asia. John pastored at Ephesus before and after his exile to Patmos. John wrote Revelation while IN Patmost, but had to have been released by 66AD on the death of Nero Caesar as it was the custom of the time to release prisoners on the death of a caesar. SO...Revelation was written before 70AD. John actually refers to the temple still standing when he wrote this letter.

 

[garee]

Christ is one author and perfecter, or the finisher our new born again faith, called the Alfa and Omega. He as our confidence promises us (Philipian1:6 ) if he has begun his good work of salvation in us he will work it out to the end according to his unfailing labor oflove .

Yes one author of one cohesive book made up of many chapters called books.

For instance say that Revelation 22:18-19 applies only to the Book or chapter of Revelation.Would it apply only to the Book of Revelation? Let's add a chapter to the book of Revelation and call that also a part of the perfect Word of prophecy.

Now it would seem in effect we have added that chapter now to the whole Bible, because the Book of Revelation is an integral, cohesive part of the whole Bible. I would think anything added to the Book of Revelation is added to the Bible, the book of Prophecy.

It would be like saying, "Well I don't like Revelation 19 and 20. Let's take that out of the Book of Revelation. Then you would have taken it out of the Bible, because the Book of Revelation again is an integral cohesive part of the whole Word of God.

Whether a person wants to understand "the words of this book" of Revelation of 22:18 as meaning the Book or chapter of Revelation or being the whole Bible the perfect has come , it really makes no difference. Effectively it becomes the whole Bible

Why go above that which is written? 1Corinthians 13 informs us new prophecy will cease along with any new knowledge that could come with it.

It would seem the elect heed the warning told beforehand .(any claims of new revelations that can add believe not, (no faith )the perfect has come.

Matthew 24:23-25 King James Version Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.Behold, I have told you before.

Not believing the idea that God is still silent they will look to the great signs as wonders, the displays of the god of this world.

God living will is sealed up till the end of time . Why go above it?

 

[luigi]

Daniel points to a future ...that for us is PAST.....
Josephus leaves no doubt about the events of that period and he was there as eye witness. He speaks of earthquakes that killed hundreds, the results of WAR are starvation, disease and destruction of rivers, etc. ( Josephus 'Antiquities' book 12 for history.)

John's Revelation was to 7 churches in Asia. John pastored at Ephesus before and after his exile to Patmos. John wrote Revelation while IN Patmost, but had to have been released by 66AD on the death of Nero Caesar as it was the custom of the time to release prisoners on the death of a caesar. SO...Revelation was written before 70AD. John actually refers to the temple still standing when he wrote this letter.

You are ignoring the fact that Revelation 13 in regards to the beast of the end times is the same beast in Daniel 7.
You are doing this to make your eschatology fit the deception Satan the deceiver of all mankind is feeding you.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[garee]

Yea, so who knows, you know? I mean if the two oldest texts have it as 616, what would the likelihood be that they were copied incorrectly from 666 to 616, and then changed back later with newer texts to some supposedly original texts that stated 666?

Thats interesting? How old of texts? When did the number become a literal mark associated with new technology?

Numerology along with the explosion of this technology generation that introduces new ideologies even into the church as new innovations that forfeit the foundation of the doctrines of God. like this mark of the beast parable .The prophecy was not predicting the usage of computers as some sort of satellite god in the far away future. That would simply take away from the faith principle. God does not give us mysteries and promise to give us his understanding and hide that from natural man for nothing. I think John understood the mystery with what the Bible had to offer already

The word Six hundred threescore and six already has a understanding attached to it .Man made from the dust of the field as a beast or mammal of the field .His number is 666, corrupted man who must be born again .

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is "the number of a man"; and his number "is" Six hundred threescore and six.

Who was the first "marked man" and what was he marked as? Was it in respect to His punishment? What did he do? What is the unseen witness? What truth did he sell and did not buy?

 

[luigi]

Thats interesting? How old of texts? When did the number become a literal mark associated with new technology?

Numerology along with the explosion of this technology generation that introduces new ideologies even into the church as new innovations that forfeit the foundation of the doctrines of God. like this mark of the beast parable .The prophecy was not predicting the usage of computers as some sort of satellite god in the far away future. That would simply take away from the faith principle. God does not give us mysteries and promise to give us his understanding and hide that from natural man for nothing. I think John understood the mystery with what the Bible had to offer already

The word Six hundred threescore and six already has a understanding attached to it .Man made from the dust of the field as a beast or mammal of the field .His number is 666, corrupted man who must be born again .

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is "the number of a man"; and his number "is" Six hundred threescore and six.

Who was the first "marked man" and what was he marked as? Was it in respect to His punishment? What did he do? What is the unseen witness? What truth did he sell and did not buy?

Hello garee,
The first thing we have to understand is that the time in reference about the beast, the dragon, and the false prophet, regard the end of the age under Satan, at the conclusion of which the Lord will commence to reign on earth through his saints.
As such the miracles the beast and his mouth perform will be and are associated with modern technology.

 

[garee]

Hello garee,
The first thing we have to understand is that the time in reference about the beast, the dragon, and the false prophet, regard the end of the age under Satan, at the conclusion of which the Lord will commence to reign on earth through his saints.
As such the miracles the beast and his mouth perform will be and are associated with modern technology.

So then we should not associate a literal mark in respect to technology? And the buying and not selling is in respect to the truth of the gospel, as the mark of Cain.

How old are these extra texts? Who wrote them? And did John have a understanding as to what it was?

 

[luigi]

So then we should not associate a literal mark in respect to technology? And the buying and not selling is in respect to the truth of the gospel, as the mark of Cain.

I do suspect that the mark and number of the beast will be an actual mark of some kind, as you will not be able to buy or sell without it.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say in regards to the truth of the gospel. What I do know is that the faithful in Christ and His gospel will be doing exploits during the reign of the beast, while at the same time they will be killed by various means according to Daniel 11:32-33).

Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

 

[Hungry]

I can understand your perspective about loving your neighbor, as this is the great commandment, but we are also told to "watch" when the signs in Mark 13, Matthew 24, and Luke 21, of the present end times appear. This is when the abomination of desolation along with beast and his number make their appearance, and so I find it prudent to keep watch and try to figure out what this number that the Lord saw so pertinent for someone to figure out means.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

First there will be many plagues, famines, an earthquake that moves the islands from their places, wormwood....then the beast takes the stage. Look all you want, you won’t find him. You will most likely be dead.

 

[garee]

I can understand your perspective about loving your neighbor, as this is the great commandment, but we are also told to "watch" when the signs in Mark 13, Matthew 24, and Luke 21, of the present end times appear. This is when the abomination of desolation along with beast and his number make their appearance, and so I find it prudent to keep watch and try to figure out what this number that the Lord saw so pertinent for someone to figure out means.

Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

How will we know when the abomination of desolation along with beast and his number make their appearance? Was its appearance standing in the Holy place been made know before? What is the holy place of God?

 

[garee]

I do suspect that the mark and number of the beast will be an actual mark of some kind, as you will not be able to buy or sell without it.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say in regards to the truth of the gospel. What I do know is that the faithful in Christ and His gospel will be doing exploits during the reign of the beast, while at the same time they will be killed by various means according to Daniel 11:32-33).

Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Buying and selling has to do with gospel truth. Not the goods needed to maintain our bodies of death that will die.

Like for instance... Esua is considered a marked man, God sent him a famine for hearing the word of God he sold his birth rite seeing no value in the things not seen for a cup of soup .

Its what soup kitchens for, the poor or spiritually bankrupt are to eat and hear the gospel.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding

 

[Lillywolf]

iT IS A WARNING ABOUT rEVELATION AND EARLIER IN sCRIPTURE WE ARE TOLD NOT TO ADD OR TAKE AWAY FROM the Word of God..

True.
Proverbs 30:6
Add not to His words, lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.

Deuteronomy 4:2
2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

 

[garee]

True.
Proverbs 30:6
Add not to His words, lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.

Deuteronomy 4:2
2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

The Deuteronomy 4:2 passage is in repsect to one word do not demish from it singular. It can change the commandments (plural) .Change the meaning of one word like the word apostle change the intent of the gospel .Deuteronomy 4:2 protects the integrity of one word. The Revelation passage in the end of the book of prophecy protects the integrity of the whole book or perfect law of God.

 

[luigi]

How will we know when the abomination of desolation along with beast and his number make their appearance? Was its appearance standing in the Holy place been made know before? What is the holy place of God?

The faithful in Christ are His temple. The Antichrist whom the whole faithless world will adore for the prosperity his system will bring about will also wear out and overcome the saints. The Antichrist (his fabulous prosperous system) will therefore stand in the holy place that is in the hearts of the saints, where he should not be standing.

 

[garee]

The faithful in Christ are His temple. The Antichrist whom the whole faithless world will adore for the prosperity his system will bring about will also wear out and overcome the saints. The Antichrist (his fabulous prosperous system) will therefore stand in the holy place that is in the hearts of the saints, where he should not be standing.

Thanks well said. First time I heard about wearing out and overcoming saints. How will they be overcome? How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[luigi]

Thanks well said. First time I heard about wearing out and overcoming saints. How will they be overcome? How did you come to that conclusion?

Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:5-7 describe the beasts mouth (aka the Antichrist) speaking great things and wearing out and overcoming the saints.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What part of the book of Rev is literal?

All of it (Although some symbolic words are used to speak of literal events)