The 144,000 named in Revelation

[Nehemiah6]

Bethlehem was where they were living.

There is no mention of Bethlehem in either Rev 7 or 14.

 

[dcontroversal]

Not at all. Your misunderstanding.

REVELATION 7: SEALED BY ANGELS AGAINST JUDGMENTS
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

REVELATION 14: REDEEMED FROM AMONG MEN
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, [the New Jerusalem in Heaven, the city of the living God, see Heb 12:22] and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads... And they sung as it were a new song before the throne [in Heaven]... the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth... These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. (vv 1-5)

There is not even a hint that these men were martyred. Rather they were sealed against any kind of judgment. There is not even a hint that they were evangelists. They were "redeemed" from the earth, just as the Church will be redeemed from the earth at the Rapture -- "the redemption of our body".

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Rom 8:23).

Go back and read the thread and the pay attention to the verbiage-->ascending and descending<----see if you can wrap your head around these two words and open your eyes for once to that which goes beyond traditional cabbage stewed theology......and your last quote has ZERO implication on what they are called....by the way you are peddling that which cannot be proven by the text.....

 

[Deade]

And why should that be an issue? God knows how, when, where, why, and who will be a part of this group, and bringing Bethlehem into the equation is irrelevant. If God has identified them as 12,000 out of each tribe, that should be accepted unquestioningly.

Also, many claim that they are evangelists, but there is no support fro that assumption.

My Statement: My, aren't you being nasty today? What makes you the arbitrator of God's calling on folks? Besides, Bethlehem was where they were living. Not irrelevant.

I am sorry, it seems we are addressing different things here. I am responding to Dcon's assumption they were from Bethlehem, which I dismissed. I thought that last statement about evangelists was referring to the posters and not the children you were referring to. We are actually both opposed to Dcon's belief of what comprises these youngsters.

 

[Deade]

I don't care what history says....I can read the bible and it is plain enough......maybe you should try it.....

Now, now, let's not get testy.

 

[Deade]

I don't care what history says....I can read the bible and it is plain enough......maybe you should try it.....

Let us not forget, there was 135 years between the fall of the Northern Kingdom and Judah. History tells us the Assyrians not only carried Israel off, they supplanted the Holy Land with strangers from their outlying empire. That is why the Jews despised the Samaritans because they claimed to be of Israel but they weren't. That would also preclude any of the North of assimilated into Judah. One cannot exclude history to draw their own conclusions. History also tells us that the Assyrians carried Israel up into continental Middle Europe.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Go back and read the thread and the pay attention to the verbiage-->ascending and descending<----see if you can wrap your head around these two words and open your eyes for once to that which goes beyond traditional cabbage stewed theology......and your last quote has ZERO implication on what they are called....by the way you are peddling that which cannot be proven by the text.....

Looks like someone does not have the grace (or the class) to accept the true teaching on the 144,000. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Noose]

No thanks.

You should know what you are talking about instead of guessing.

 

[Locutus]

What if there was only 139,999 infants in and around Bethlehem?

 

[Adstar]

Hey Gang.......Much has been proposed about the 144,000 in the book of Revelation which contains past, present and future context....even the False Jehovah's Non-Witnessses jumped on board with their take, as well as numerous other groups.....my view is listed below...this came up in another thread and I wanted to put it out for all to examine. I am not here to argue these point....After a very diligent look into the facts listed about the 144,000 I have come to the following conclusion.

First note the facts about the 144,000

Locations identified with
144,000 standing on MOUNT ZION with their FATHER'S seal on their foreheads
They are SINGING a SONG BEFORE the THRONE, BEFORE the 4 beasts and the elders
THEY follow the LAMB where ever he GOES
They are without fault before the throne

They have been redeemed
FROM the EARTH
FROM among MEN

They are a special unique group
ONLY they can learn the song they sing

They are faultless boys who have not had sex
They have not been defiled with women
They are virgins
They have no guile/deceit in their mouths

They are called the same word Christ is called
Being the FIRSTFRUITS unto GOD and the LAMB

What group in history can fit this group....the boys murdered by HEROD in the place of Christ

a. They are a unique group
b. They were boys
c. They were virgins
d. They have never been defiled with women
e. They have told no lies or used deceit or guile
f. They were alive <--redeemed from among men
g. They were dead <--redeemed from the earth (ground)
h. They are located before the throne, before the 4 beasts, before the elders and the follow the lamb where ever he goes (all in heaven)
I. Identified as the FIRSTFRUITS unto GOD and the LAMB

My view....they are the train of the Lord and represent the wave offering given by JESUS along with himself before the throne.

144,000 perfect, unblemished Jewish martyred males in the place of JESUS <---the cream of the "wheat" crop if there ever was one.

You missed out the fact that the 144,000 consist of 12,000 innocents from each of the 12 tribes..

Revelation 7: KJV
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.


6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.


7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.


8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

So the 144,000 will be decendants of Abraham..

 

[KJV1611]

I believe these are the 144000 sealed before the 70 AD slaughter.

Eze 9:4 (KJV) And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

 

[dcontroversal]

Let us not forget, there was 135 years between the fall of the Northern Kingdom and Judah. History tells us the Assyrians not only carried Israel off, they supplanted the Holy Land with strangers from their outlying empire. That is why the Jews despised the Samaritans because they claimed to be of Israel but they weren't. That would also preclude any of the North of assimilated into Judah. One cannot exclude history to draw their own conclusions. History also tells us that the Assyrians carried Israel up into continental Middle Europe.

The Samaritans were mixed breed Jews and yes there were JEWS from the Northern Kingdom in the Land............HAHAHHAHAHHA Middle Europe you say.......that takes the cake...........sorry....that did not happen!

 

[dcontroversal]

I believe these are the 144000 sealed before the 70 AD slaughter.

Eze 9:4 (KJV) And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

I believe the only four places Identified with the 144,000 is in HEAVEN and the angel that SEALS them ASCENDS while telling the angel DESCENDING TO THE earth to not hurt anyone until the ANGEL that is ASCENDING seals them.........

Where is HE ascending TO.............and where is the other Angel DESCENDING from<-----TO the earth that is!

 

[dcontroversal]

You missed out the fact that the 144,000 consist of 12,000 innocents from each of the 12 tribes..

Revelation 7: KJV
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.


5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.


6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.


7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.


8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

So the 144,000 will be decendants of Abraham..

I am not missing anything......regardless of everyone's ability to SKIP right over the 11 characteristics of the 144,000 and the 4 references to them being in HEAVEN

 

[dcontroversal]

I am sorry, it seems we are addressing different things here. I am responding to Dcon's assumption they were from Bethlehem, which I dismissed. I thought that last statement about evangelists was referring to the posters and not the children you were referring to. We are actually both opposed to Dcon's belief of what comprises these youngsters.

I never assumed anything....it states clearly where they are from..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

What if there was only 139,999 infants in and around Bethlehem?

What if pigs could really fly and fairies sprinkled sweet sugar dust on cotton candy to give it a special flavor.........!!!!!!!

What it, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if what if......PEOPLE actually paid attention to the 11 characteristics of these 144,000 and the 4 (FOUR) references to them being in HEAVEN while being sealed by an ANGEL that ASCENDS to seal them while speaking to an angle that is DESCENDING TO THE EARTH!!!!

NOW that would be a "MAAARACLE"""""

 

[Adstar]

I am not missing anything......regardless of everyone's ability to SKIP right over the 11 characteristics of the 144,000 and the 4 references to them being in HEAVEN

I only read your first post and responded to it.. I did not read in your opening post the fact that they where made up of 12,000 from each tribe..

 

[dcontroversal]

Looks like someone does not have the grace (or the class) to accept the true teaching on the 144,000. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Good ststement to apply to yourself......after you are honest with the 11 characteristics APPLIED unto them, the fact that there are 4 (four) references to them being in HEAVEN and the fact that the ANGEL that seals them ASCENDS TO DO SO while speaking to the angel DESCENDING to the earth.......then you can make your mouthy snide remark found above......

 

[Adstar]

I believe these are the 144000 sealed before the 70 AD slaughter.

.

The destruction of Jerusalem happened many centuries after the loos of the 10 northern tribes..So the 12,000 from each of those 1o tribes where not present in Jerusalem during the destruction of 70ad..

So this prophecy could not have been fulfilled in 70ad

 

[KJV1611]

I believe the only four places Identified with the 144,000 is in HEAVEN and the angel that SEALS them ASCENDS while telling the angel DESCENDING TO THE earth to not hurt anyone until the ANGEL that is ASCENDING seals them.........

Where is HE ascending TO.............and where is the other Angel DESCENDING from<-----TO the earth that is!

Rev 7:3 (KJV) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

I see it as the wrath of God is about to come to earth, God seals his people so they’re not hurt.

 

[garee]

Its never about the corrupted flesh of any nation. God is no respecter of persons. And what we are in these bodies of death is not what we as His chaste, virgin bride will be when all who are redeemed. This is when the whole bride signified the word 144,000 will receive our new incorruptible bodies. God does not redeem the Jews separate from the other nations .And therefore make him into a respecter of persons

The 144000 is the signified poetic language of our God who uses the temporal things seen to reveal the unseen eternal . The number 144,000 is number of Christ our husband chaste virgin bride of Christ, the church.

God forbids men from literally numbering or counting days. We walk by faith (the unseen holy place of God.

God does not number his people (the chaste virgin bride the church) She is in heaven represented by no Sun in the book of Revelation .

She is the new creature that has received her new incorruptible body, neither male nor female, Jew nor gentile .She is identified as being redeemed from the earth. She is seen coming down from heaven prepared as the chaste virgin bride who has not fornicated with the gods of this world as the queen of heaven. She in chapter is Same entity of chapter 7 and 14.