Is Universalsim in Opposition to the Bible?

[Sketch]

This idea that those in the O.T. did not have the gospel is ignorant........and reeks of a lack of biblical knowledge.....

a. God shed blood and covered Adam and Eve's shame
b. God promises a redeemer in Genesis 3:15
c. Abel offered blood in faith
d. Seth calls on the Lord
e. Job knew of and understood the resurrection and his REDEEMER
f. Abraham was JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law
g. David speaks of the JOY of his SALVATION in a present tense
h. Isaiah gives the 53rd chapter of the suffering messiah and being bruised for our iniquities and healed by his stripes
k. Moses lifts the Brazen serpent <--Jesus places it as a type in John 3:16
l. The institution of the pass over and GOD seeing the blood and passing over
m. The sacrificial system under the LAW
n. The HIGH priest making intercession
o. The Kinsmen redeemer in Ruth
p. etc.

AND on top of that......BOTH JESUS and ABRAHAM testify to the PSALMS, LAW and PROPHETS and the ability to FIND CHRIST in them and BE SAVED..........

SEARCH the scriptures for they are they which TESTIFY OF ME!

No, your assertions about them seem ignorant.

While it is true that the Patriarchs and Prophets were looking forward to what was being promised, they had no idea what it was.

If it was that obvious, then why didn't the Israelites welcome their messiah when he arrived?
The NT record shows that even Jesus' own disciples were not clear on this point.
And even Jesus wanted it to be kept a secret. So much for EVERYONE knowing!

Mark 8:27-30
Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?” 28 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.” 29 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.” 30 Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, your assertions about them seem ignorant.

While it is true that the Patriarchs and Prophets were looking forward to what was being promised, they had no idea what it was.

If it was that obvious, then why didn't the Israelites welcome their messiah when he arrived?
The NT record shows that even Jesus' own disciples were not clear on this point.
And even Jesus wanted it to be kept a secret. So much for EVERYONE knowing!

Mark 8:27-30
Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?” 28 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.” 29 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.” 30 Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.

Paul called these things the mystery which has been reveaed to them. (After Christ died) Have you ever wondered WHY God kept this a mystery? Who was he hiding the truth from?

 

[Sketch]

WHY not give the context and why I said what I said....because YOU attributed verbiage to me that I never said nor implied.....

dcontroversal said:
Not hardly......and your conclusion lacks truth......it is obvious that you did not read a word I said in numerous posts, because I did not say what you imply nor do I believe that garbage....

I see.
So your job is to post the "truth" and my job is to read it and accept it without reservation?
Is that how this is supposed to work? (nope)

 

[Sketch]

Paul called these things the mystery which has been reveaed to them. (After Christ died) Have you ever wondered WHY God kept this a mystery? Who was he hiding the truth from?

Exactly! Thank you.

Romans 16:25-26
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith—

1 Corinthians 2:7
No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

Ephesians 3:2-5
Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly! Thank you.

Romans 16:25-26
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith—

1 Corinthians 2:7
No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

Ephesians 3:2-5
Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

Again, Why did God want that hidden. Did God have a purpose?

Anyway, Abraham believed God had a plan. And through that faith he was saved. He was still saved by faith..

 

[preston39]

The word Aionos can mean eternal or age-long

However, the Bible promises that eternal life shall last forever in other sections (Isaiah 51:6).

However, the bible promises that death (seperation from God) will be destroyed (1 Corinthians 15:26). That's not my opinion, its the Bible.

This means life = eternal but punishment will not last forever.

End time deceptions are alive and well in this case thru new age religion Bible interpretations.
The above are examples.

 

[jaybird88]

It matters not one jot what people want to happen.. You do not base your doctrines on your personal desires of what you wish to happen.. What matters is what God has revealed.. That's what is going to happen..

Now no one should desire that any fellow human being should be in torment forever in the eternal lake of fire we should want all people repent and be saved, just as God does not wish anyone to burn..

2 Peter 3: KJV
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

BUT the fact remains many people will not come to repentance and they will be cast into the eternal Lake of fire where they will be in torment forever and ever..

Revelation 20: KJV
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

People should never build their doctrines on their thoughts and feelings but on the Word of God..

Proverbs 16: KJV
25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[jaybird88]

It matters not one jot what people want to happen.. You do not base your doctrines on your personal desires of what you wish to happen.. What matters is what God has revealed.. That's what is going to happen..

Now no one should desire that any fellow human being should be in torment forever in the eternal lake of fire we should want all people repent and be saved, just as God does not wish anyone to burn..

2 Peter 3: KJV
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

BUT the fact remains many people will not come to repentance and they will be cast into the eternal Lake of fire where they will be in torment forever and ever..

Revelation 20: KJV
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

People should never build their doctrines on their thoughts and feelings but on the Word of God..

Proverbs 16: KJV
25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

i never said we should base doctrine on personal thoughts. the guy asked me my opinion and i gave it. the opinion was based on me having no pleasure in watching people burn in hell.

 

[jaybird88]

As I understand it, the Councils fulfilled a genuine need in the church.
There was no systematic theology back then. They needed to set a standard. And that standard was biblically based.

In fact, there was no New Testament until they compiled and canonized it. We owe them a debt of gratitude rather than derision. You should thank them for the Bible they gave you next time you open it.

Sure we all need a good teacher, especially in the beginning. But we should never let any teacher or group do all the thinking for us.


Why is a standard so important?

Matthew 16:13-20
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

the people had different views on Jesus. Jesus does not condemn them for their different ideas.

 

[selfdissolving]

Whenever the Bible says "forever" or "everlasting" the greek word aiónios is being translated. Strong's Greek defines this word as "age-long, eternal."



This means that whenever verses about hell say "forever" they may mean age-long.



An age is a temporary amount of time.



This weeping and nashing of teeth you describe does not have to go on forever.

Strong's Greek defines this word as "age-long, eternal."
Keyword eternal.
After the Great White Throne Judgment, we enter the new heaven and new earth, and that age never ends. The Kingdom of Heaven is the final age which is eternal and never passes away.

 

[Zmouth]

Do you think there could be any way that a compromise between the doctrine of universalism and the teachings of the Bible could exist?

Since the doctrine of Christ applies to all men anywhere in the universe, the principle of universalism might not be comprehended until man can learn to read without someone who knows how to read teaching them.

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:13-14

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Answer to universal question: NO

Answer to God's people when faced with questions like this:

Anyone who goes too far and does not abide inthe teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. 2 JOHN 1: 9-11

 

[dcontroversal]

I guess people are to wise in their own conceited way that they cannot accept the truth of the following...Speaks a multitude to a complete lack of understanding and a rejection of the word of God, YEA the very words of JESUS HIMSELF CONCERNING the O.T.


dcontroversal said:
This idea that those in the O.T. did not have the gospel is ignorant........and reeks of a lack of biblical knowledge.....

a. God shed blood and covered Adam and Eve's shame
b. God promises a redeemer in Genesis 3:15
c. Abel offered blood in faith
d. Seth calls on the Lord
e. Job knew of and understood the resurrection and his REDEEMER
f. Abraham was JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law
g. David speaks of the JOY of his SALVATION in a present tense
h. Isaiah gives the 53rd chapter of the suffering messiah and being bruised for our iniquities and healed by his stripes
k. Moses lifts the Brazen serpent <--Jesus places it as a type in John 3:16
l. The institution of the pass over and GOD seeing the blood and passing over
m. The sacrificial system under the LAW
n. The HIGH priest making intercession
o. The Kinsmen redeemer in Ruth
p. etc.

AND on top of that......BOTH JESUS and ABRAHAM testify to the PSALMS, LAW and PROPHETS and the ability to FIND CHRIST in them and BE SAVED..........

SEARCH the scriptures for they are they which TESTIFY OF ME!

 

[Hevosmies]

Matthew 16:13-20
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

the people had different views on Jesus. Jesus does not condemn them for their different ideas.

Wow
So it doesnt even really matter who you think Jesus is.
What kind of hippie stuff is this? Ridicilous... Last time I checked if someone does not believe that Jesus is the Christ HE ISNT SAVED.

Did those guys in your avatar come up with that?

 

[jaybird88]

Wow
So it doesnt even really matter who you think Jesus is.
What kind of hippie stuff is this? Ridicilous... Last time I checked if someone does not believe that Jesus is the Christ HE ISNT SAVED.

Did those guys in your avatar come up with that?

some believe more than 300 thousand were executed by the church, the lionshare of those murders had to do with the nature of Jesus. WOW!

 

[Hevosmies]

some believe more than 300 thousand were executed by the church, the lionshare of those murders had to do with the nature of Jesus. WOW!

You are arguing like an atheist.

 

[jaybird88]

You are arguing like an atheist.

you have any substance to put on the table or you just going to resort to name calling.

 

[Sketch]

Again, Why did God want that hidden. Did God have a purpose?

Anyway, Abraham believed God had a plan. And through that faith he was saved. He was still saved by faith..

Yes, saved by faith. But faith in what, or whom?

 

[Sketch]

Why is a standard so important?

False doctrines were popping up faster than weeds in a corn field.
They need a standard to measure by.

You need to remember that they didn't have all the tools we have today.
They didn't even have a New Testament until they put one together.
That was part of the standardization process.

 

[Lillywolf]

The word Aionos can mean eternal or age-long

However, the Bible promises that eternal life shall last forever in other sections (Isaiah 51:6).

However, the bible promises that death (seperation from God) will be destroyed (1 Corinthians 15:26). That's not my opinion, its the Bible.

This means life = eternal but punishment will not last forever.

True.
165. aión
aión: a space of time, an age
Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aión
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn')
Definition: a space of time, an age
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

End time deceptions are alive and well in this case thru new age religion Bible interpretations.
The above are examples.

That's not true.