Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#461
Mar 23, 2016
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#461
ForestGreenCook said:
I understand that all of that is revealed to the regenerated man. Ask a person that does not believe that there is a God and see if he has been revealed the same things that is revealed to you. (the natural man) God is a Spirit and the natural man does not believe in spiritual things.
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Your understanding does not refute Psalm 19:1-4. The heavens declare God's glory to all mankind. Some people suppress the truth in unrighteousness and reject God. That is why they are without excuse.

For you to insist that only the "regenerated man" is able to "see" the glory of God through His creation is wholly without merit in light of what is revealed in Scripture.

Your interpretation of Scripture gives the unbeliever an excuse and the unbeliever can blame God for his/her rejection, which is in direct contradiction to what is stated in Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.



 
NayborBear

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#462
Dec 6, 2015
2,626
775
113
A deplorable! (so you know, what "state" I'm in!)
#462
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Elected to what??
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Lemme see if I can address this question for ya!

We all have been taught that it was 1/3rd of the "sons of God", that the dragon "swept" with its "tale/tail!" Right?

As far as I've read in the Bible, these "Habitations", Have Not been filled! Right? :unsure::unsure:

You can read about what "those", and that which they taught, and still teach men/women in the book of Enoch! Which means "reading outside" the "Canonized" Bible. Hey! Don't look at me! It wasn't I who deleted Enoch and Jasher from the "canon!" Although, both are mentioned IN the canonized "version!" :unsure:
Kinda gives cause for one in wondering just who, or what did though, don't it? ;)

Who is God going to ELECT, in His replacing these habitations that were vacated? We also read where these ones who vacated? Aren't going to be RE-Appointed, are they? Well? Kinda goes a little like this. There's a "story" in O.T. HIStory, concerning the Kingdom of Israel, and the "dividing" up the real estate! EXCEPT, for the PRIESTS! They only got enough real estate to "live and prosper" on. Why? Because GOD is THEIR INHERITANCE! SUPPOSED to have been, anyways! As it turned out? Israel's priests, and Israel themselves, found themselves in the same predicament, as did Adam and Eve! Enter, Jesus Christ of Nazareth! Of Whom the Holy Scriptures were "revised" BY God through His humble servants the Prophets, in their "reflecting" this, in their writings and prophecies! Also, in the writings and prophecies of the Apostles and Disciples in the N.T.

Hoping this shines some light as to where the elect come from! The question during this current administration of God's Grace and Loving Kindness, is who do you wish to serve? The Father? The Son? BOTH? Neither? Self?

For you see, it's NOT about "works for SALVATION", for those IN Christ! Nope? Never HAS been! Although, many, because of the "traditions of man", which makes VOID the WORD of God, are so want in their teachings, that it is? It AIN'T!

It's about keeping ones' ELECTION "assured", for WHEN the Father has SUFFICIENTLY "rendered as a FOOTSTOOL" HIS "enemies", in the sending BACK of Jesus Christ of Nazareth! (see the 2nd half of Psalms 110:1)

The Father's "elect", are doing this work NOW! So, the "elect" in Christ? WOULD CONTINUE their work, THEN! ;)

 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#464
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
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#464
eternally-gratefull said:
You forgot

Perfect justice
Perfect love

Love can not over rule justice, But love provided a way. And you can not have perfect love without providing free will. You think they can, Maybe that explains alot

And you keep ignoreing his will. You ignore jesus words. Amazing that I have posted jesus words numerous times, Yet you and your brother refuse to even acknowledge Jesus said it

You know what they call people who do that?
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scripture out of context is pretext
 
L

Lillywolf

Well-known member
#466
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
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#466
GraceAndTruth said:
Here is what I believe, and am totally unshakable in these truths
Doctrines of Grace or TULIP
T - total depravity of man
U - Unconditional election of the saints
L - Limited atonement
I - Irresistable Grace
P - preservation of the saints (once saved always saved.

the 5 Solas
sola scriptura the bible alone as our only source for faith and morals
sola gratia grace alone
sola fide faith alone
sola Christos Christ alone
soli deo gloria glory to God alone

The ONE true God eternally exists as three distinct Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal, co-eternal, and one in essence.

and in the eschatology of Amillianism
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To help with any misunderstanding, what is Amillianism?

"....However, in fairness to amillennialists, they do not believe that there is no millennium at all. They just do not believe in a literal millennium—a literal 1000-year reign of Christ on earth. Instead, they believe that Christ is now sitting on the throne of David and that this present church age is the kingdom over which Christ reigns. There is no doubt that Christ is now sitting on a throne, but this does not mean that it is what the Bible refers to as the throne of David. There is no doubt that Christ now rules, for He is God. Yet this does not mean He is ruling over the millennial kingdom. " Source full article@ Got Questions
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#469
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#469
Hevosmies said:
If some calvinist can show a verse that says people are first born again (or regenerated, or whatever word you wish to use here) BEFORE they believe (or are saved, again whatever word you wish to use here) that would prove their case to be true and I believe all would "convert" to reformed theology.

I know I would bow before that evidence.
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1 Cor 2:14 - The natural man cannot discern spiritual things, therefore he does not know a spiritual God, no matter how you interpret Rom 1. He cannot believe in something that he can not discern. Even God's chosen people could not discern spiritual things until God regenerated them and put his Holy Spirit within them. (Eph 2). There is the evidence, can you discern it?
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#470
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#470
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Yea, and the Ephesians took possession of that salvation in chapter 1, not chapter 2.
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You are interpreting Eph 1:13 wrong. After they were regenerated and God put the Holy Spirit within them he is telling them that the Holy Spirit is a conformation, a down payment, earnest of our inheritance. sealed means confirmed. They were saved on the cross and they were given the ability to discern spiritual things in regeneration, when God gave them the Holy Spirit.
 
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hunterpoet2531

New member
#471
Nov 4, 2018
12
8
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#471
GraceAndTruth said:
well lets see......ahhhh...NOT everybody IS saved. Some pots were MADE FOR destruction, some for Glory...hmmmm Romans 9
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According to theologian Adam Clark... Verse 21. Hath not the potter power over the clay] The apostle continues his answer to the Jew. Hath not God shown, by the parable of the potter, Jer 18:1, &c., that he may justly dispose of nations, and of the Jews in particular, according as he in his infinite wisdom may judge most right and fitting; even as the potter has a right, out of the same lump of clay, to make one vessel to a more honourable and another to a less honourable use, as his own judgment and skill may direct; for no potter will take pains to make a vessel merely that he may show that he has power to dash it to pieces?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#473
#473
ForestGreenCook said:
You are interpreting Eph 1:13 wrong. After they were regenerated and God put the Holy Spirit within them he is telling them that the Holy Spirit is a conformation, a down payment, earnest of our inheritance. sealed means confirmed. They were saved on the cross and they were given the ability to discern spiritual things in regeneration, when God gave them the Holy Spirit.
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God did not regenerator anyone before that verse, Now your adding to the word of God.

Thats dangerous my friend.

Eph 1 says they heard the word. The word which could set them free. Then they believed, After which they were saved (regenerated)

We are regenerated BECAUSE we are saved, Not to get saved.

You have people made alive in sin.. The penlty of sin is death, THAT PENALTY MUST BE REMOVED BEFORE YOU CAN BE MADE ALIVE.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#474
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#474
reneweddaybyday said:
Your understanding does not refute Psalm 19:1-4. The heavens declare God's glory to all mankind. Some people suppress the truth in unrighteousness and reject God. That is why they are without excuse.

For you to insist that only the "regenerated man" is able to "see" the glory of God through His creation is wholly without merit in light of what is revealed in Scripture.

Your interpretation of Scripture gives the unbeliever an excuse and the unbeliever can blame God for his/her rejection, which is in direct contradiction to what is stated in Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
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Thank you for your comments, I hope that you do not get too upset with my replies to stop discussing the scriptures with me. My concern is that you are not understanding the lack of the ability for the natural man, void of the Spirit, to understand spiritual matters. I do not believe the scriptures to teach that the natural man can posses the indwelling of the Holy Spirit until he has been regenerated. I believe Eph 2 explains that pretty well. God's chosen people were also in the same shape as the natural man until God regenerated them and put his Spirit within them. The natural man does not need an excuse because he sees himself satisfied right where he is and has no guilt of disobeying a spiritual God.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#475
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
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#475
hunterpoet2531 said:
According to theologian Adam Clark... Verse 21. Hath not the potter power over the clay] The apostle continues his answer to the Jew. Hath not God shown, by the parable of the potter, Jer 18:1, &c., that he may justly dispose of nations, and of the Jews in particular, according as he in his infinite wisdom may judge most right and fitting; even as the potter has a right, out of the same lump of clay, to make one vessel to a more honourable and another to a less honourable use, as his own judgment and skill may direct; for no potter will take pains to make a vessel merely that he may show that he has power to dash it to pieces?
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rightly divide the word, what is to the Jewish nation is for them, what is to the church is for Jews and Gentiles made one in Christ Jesus
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#476
Sep 28, 2015
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#476
It seems that some people believe that salvation is for those smart enough to accept Christ and the stupid people get "left behind"
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#477
Jul 8, 2018
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#477
eternally-gratefull said:
God did not regenerator anyone before that verse, Now your adding to the word of God.

Thats dangerous my friend.

Eph 1 says they heard the word. The word which could set them free. Then they believed, After which they were saved (regenerated)

We are regenerated BECAUSE we are saved, Not to get saved.

You have people made alive in sin.. The penlty of sin is death, THAT PENALTY MUST BE REMOVED BEFORE YOU CAN BE MADE ALIVE.
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Tell me if I am understanding you wrong. Are you saying that Paul, who is talking to those that are (verse 1) saints which are at Ephesus, has not been regenerated along with the saints (given spiritual life)? Do you not understand that regeneration mean that they have been given a spiritual life by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Our penalty was removed at the cross by Jesus. The good news of the gospel sets you free from the fear of going to hell. Not actually going to hell.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#478
#478
ForestGreenCook said:
Tell me if I am understanding you wrong. Are you saying that Paul, who is talking to those that are (verse 1) saints which are at Ephesus, has not been regenerated along with the saints (given spiritual life)? Do you not understand that regeneration mean that they have been given a spiritual life by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Our penalty was removed at the cross by Jesus. The good news of the gospel sets you free from the fear of going to hell. Not actually going to hell.
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Paul, In eph 1: 13 - 14 told them HOW they got to that state.

No place in those 2 verses did he say they were regenerated, THEN heard the word. THEN trusted the word, THEN were saved and sealed.

Your adding to the word.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#479
#479
GraceAndTruth said:
It seems that some people believe that salvation is for those smart enough to accept Christ and the stupid people get "left behind"
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I should have known. You people come in here like you know the world. You attack, slander and insult, then try to say we all need to work in harmony and should act like good christiam people.

If you do not have anythign good to say, My suggestion to you is do not say anything at all. I have 2 calvinist brothers I talk to all the time. And they are the only two I have met in CC I even have any respect for. Becausewhen they share their belief, they do not attack, or judge, or belittle, or slander others.. Then try to yell at everyone else saying they have the problem.

It has nothign to do with being smart enough. God will make sure people know the gospel. He has to. If they cannot understand it, THEY CANlT COME TO FAITH, if they have NO CAPABILITY TO COME TO FAITH, God can not judge them for unbelief, Because he never gave them a way to understand.

Maybe your God acts that way (which is why it sickens me) but the god of the universe is a fair god. When eternity is come and past. No one will question his love ever again..
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#480
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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#480
Hevosmies said:
If some calvinist can show a verse that says people are first born again (or regenerated, or whatever word you wish to use here) BEFORE they believe (or are saved, again whatever word you wish to use here) that would prove their case to be true and I believe all would "convert" to reformed theology.

I know I would bow before that evidence.
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That is not what Calvinism teaches. Where did you get that concept from? Here is the 2 opposing views of Calvinism and Armenianism. Note both have a lengthy statement about each of their 5 points at the bottom of the following. Since these views are not covered by the creeds they are to agree to disagree.

Quinquarticular Controversy
The diametrically opposed Calvinist and Armenian 5 points

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace

For a deeper discussion of the differences go to these web sites,

https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

Arminianism vs Calvinism Controversial Passages
https://www.xenos.org/essays/calvinism-arminianism-controversial-passages

There are denominations adhering to Calvinism, Arminianism, and parts of each creating a spectrum of different views of these issues.

Calvinism Armenianism debate
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Calvinist–Arminian_debate

Biblical Defense of Calvinism
https://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm

Biblical Defense of Arminianism
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/calvinism-versus-arminianism/biblical-defense-of-arminianism/
 
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