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eternally-gratefull
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We have had some good ones, The one you opened awhile ago where we had alot of freindly conversation..
Question...
- Thread starter CharliRenee
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I have another "theory", hypothesis or suspicion
what if, works mentality exist because of not being clear of what it means to "let go and let God", the fear of "not bearing visible fruit" and "taking matters into one's own hands", or not being clear of what it means to "allow God to work through you", or unable to "allow God to work through you"?
what if, works mentality exist because of not being clear of what it means to "let go and let God", the fear of "not bearing visible fruit" and "taking matters into one's own hands", or not being clear of what it means to "allow God to work through you", or unable to "allow God to work through you"?
Yep a few......most are decent enough......and occasionally the swords do need to come out........I do not mind disagreement, a rejection of my view etc.....what always fires me up and brings the claws out is when I get misquoted, something attributed to me that I did not say or someone to flat lie about what I said...or did not say as was the case today.....
Jesus wasn't created . . . He is the Creator . . . all things were made by Him and by Him all things consist. So, he is above all creatures, yet not one Himself. He is above all things created since He was the architect of it all.
It needs to be read in the full context which emphasizes:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
I'm sorry you feel this way. I am a Christian def not a JW. I am humble, though, in the way that I still have much to learn. I, in no way, meant any disrespect to my Lord and Savior, Yeshua. I am grateful for His direction, helping me out of my ignorance.
Jesus WAS NOT created! Jesus IS..........as God said I Am that I Am........also did Jesus say I Am
Look to the Gospel of John
John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2) The same was in the beginning with God.
Jesus is the Word. The Living Word of God the Father
I know the Holy Trinity can be hard to understand, however Jesus IS God......God the Son!
Look to the Gospel of John
John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2) The same was in the beginning with God.
Jesus is the Word. The Living Word of God the Father
I know the Holy Trinity can be hard to understand, however Jesus IS God......God the Son!
John 8:58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
I think being a servant, humble, teachable, walking justly, loving mercy, keeping the heart softened, abiding in Him, avoiding sin, are all works that are a part of a transformed life given to Him. However, those fruits are produced and maintained only because of Him. I need His help, desperately and oodles of mercy, thanks be to Him, we always have hope for sufficiency.
If so, in my opinion, they do so in error:
Colossians 2:2) That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3)In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
(God.......singular.....then Father and Christ.....revelation of the mystery of Christ being God just as the Father is)
4) And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. 5) For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Kinda makes you want to rethink that idea about throwing out the Holy Trinity don't it? Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it surely should! Especially as Paul himself tells us that we (man) are a triune being. And, uh, er, gee, were we NOT created in HIS IMAGE?
1 Thessalonians 5:23) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(revelation that man is a triune being, and man was created in the image of who?)
Genesis 1:26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Oh see, I did not know that. I'm glad to know this now, thank you. Well I believe that colossians proves He is God the Son.
For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him
Colossians 1:19 TLV
https://bible.com/bible/314/col.1.19.TLV
Yes, Jesus was the one that said "Let there be light." He was the Logos (spokesman/word) of God. CharliRenee was just wanting to know if the firstborn and begotten titles were from His incarnation, which we pretty much confirmed. We are not given How Christ was brought about, just that He is subordinate to the Father. That is all we will know about it until we put off our flesh. We probably couldn't understand it, right now, anyway.
Let me try again...lol my edit time ran out.
Oh see, I did not know that. I'm glad to know this now, thank you. Though my dad was a preacher and most of my life I have been a believer, I still know so little. But by golly, I'm doing a lot more learning. The more I dig in the word, the more proverbs 25:2, Jeramiah 15:16 and Luke 24:32, just to name a few, ring true.
Well, I believe that colossians proves He is God the Son.
For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him
Colossians 1:19 TLV
https://bible.com/bible/314/col.1.19.TLV
The wording in verse 15 confused me, but I knew that the problem was in my interpretation so I sought counsel. I'm not as defensive as I sound, Churinga, lol.
Better to tell it to the next JW that comes along and see what happens i am well aware of JW doctrine which is why i raised their beliefs.
BAM!!! 1000 thank yous. Yay, you speak Charli. Thank you. Well said.I suppose it is good that He tells us not to lean on our (limited) understanding.Yes, Jesus was the one that said "Let there be light." He was the Logos (spokesman/word) of God. CharliRenee was just wanting to know if the firstborn and begotten titles were from His incarnation, which we pretty much confirmed. We are not given How Christ was brought about, just that He is subordinate to the Father. That is all we will know about it until we put off our flesh. We probably couldn't understand it, right now, anyway.
Yes, Jesus was the one that said "Let there be light." He was the Logos (spokesman/word) of God. CharliRenee was just wanting to know if the firstborn and begotten titles were from His incarnation, which we pretty much confirmed. We are not given How Christ was brought about, just that He is subordinate to the Father. That is all we will know about it until we put off our flesh. We probably couldn't understand it, right now, anyway.
I do not know if this is addressed to me or not.........
But, in my opinion, Christ was not "brought about." I understand how hard it is to comprehend the Holy Trinity. However, Christ IS. There never was a time when Christ wasn't, nor will there ever be a time when Christ won't be.
Regarding "subordinate." Only when He took upon Himself the form of man was Christ subordinate to God. God the Son subordinate to God the Father. Now that He has risen.........God can not be subordinate to Himself can He?
I know, I know, and I can't wait for the day when I meet Him face to face, and am not "looking through a glass darkly."
Anyway, these are my opinions/understandings........not giving anybody a hard time or anything like that........
God bless
1. For one thing, you can continue calling the Lord Jesus Christ "Jesus", since He has long transcended His ministry to Israel (which rejected Him). The modern versions which substitute "the Messiah" for Christos (Christ) are interpreting rather than translating. And just being cute. He is called Messiah in Daniel 9, but throughout the New Testament you will find "Jesus", "Jesus Christ" (or "Christ Jesus") and "the Lord Jesus Christ". While the Hebrew word is Yeshua, or Yahshua, or Yehoshua, the world knows Christ as Jesus Christ.
2. Colossians 1:15 has nothing to say about the incarnation of Christ -- God being manifested in the flesh. There are other Scriptures which state this.
3. Jesus -- the eternal Word -- is called "the only begotten Son of God" (or uniquely begotten Son of God". Since He is God, and there is no mother involved, this speaks of a special and unique Father-Son relationship within the Godhead from eternity.
4. So now we can deal with "the first born of every creature". It can also legitimately be translated as "the firstborn over all creation", so the issue is what does "firstborn" mean in this context, given the fact that Christ is the Creator and not a creature?
5. "Firstborn" is the translation for prototokos which simply means first-born. But to correctly understand this, we need to fully understand that Christ is PREEMINENT in all things and in all creation. And that is exactly what Colossians 1:18 says:
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
"Who is the beginning" means that Jesus is the Alpha of all creation, just as He is also the Omega of all creation. The universe is centered in Christ, and He is the focus of the Bible. God the Father has delegated all authority in Heaven and in earth to Christ.
The "firstborn [preeminent] from the dead" relates to this since He is "the first fruits of them that slept". Which means that the resurrection of Christ has preeminence in all the resurrections, particularly the resurrection of the saints.