Has the law been put aside? If so, when?
- Thread starter Sketch
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I think I'll be doing better with time Dcon. Has been a rough 6 months or more...thank you for asking.
But am back. Single after 18 years. Not sure how to act.
But am back. Single after 18 years. Not sure how to act.
He will wipe away every tear -- and they neither marry nor are given in marriage in heaven.
AND ((o look i'm still being relevant to the OP))
Do you not know, brothers and sisters — for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
(Romans 7:1-4)
may He grant you peace ♥
-
4
- Show all
Matt. 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." This is not saying each point will be fulfilled separately, no element shall pass away until ALL be fulfilled.
Heb. 4:9-11 "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
The Christian rest is the millennial Kingdom of God. Until then we still labor. Grace has removed the curse of the law.
Heb. 4:9-11 "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
The Christian rest is the millennial Kingdom of God. Until then we still labor. Grace has removed the curse of the law.
Jesus did rebuke the pharisees and scribes. In my heart I am sure God sent his only son - so that we could better understand God and the values of heaven. So perhaps something happened with those who were given the law to transcribe - they corrupted it perhaps. Which is why Jesus was so angry with them - perhaps.
Right at the end of Jesus' physical life on Earth - look how simple salvation was for the thief beside him. Someone reminded me of this recently and it can easily be forgotten. How simple salvation is - yet one can see how it could be so difficult for those invested in this world. The man beside Jesus only had to do three things to get to heaven. Confess his sin - have faith Jesus Christ - and accept the gift of salvation.
To me - it's like God put a highlighter pen through that part of Jesus' life - so everyone could understand above the WRITTEN law in the most moving and incredible way. Because those invested with the care of the law on Earth had corrupted what was written in part. They were doing their secret clubs and ceremonies - thinking God wouldnt/couldn't see them. The world has more of these "secret" meetings - than ever before I think. At least in this iteration of the world after the flood. Masonic halls and Jesuit agents everywhere now.
the law that commands physical circumcision is made of jots and tittles.
the law that establishes Levi as priest is made of jots and tittles.
the law that requires daily sacrifices of animal's blood is made of jots and tittles.
this law in the Bible is never spoken of as individual parts which may be broken into pieces, some kept and others ignored.
what happened?
the law that establishes Levi as priest is made of jots and tittles.
the law that requires daily sacrifices of animal's blood is made of jots and tittles.
this law in the Bible is never spoken of as individual parts which may be broken into pieces, some kept and others ignored.
what happened?
-
4
- Show all
Deu 29:10 Ye stand this day all of you before the LORD your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
Deu 29:11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
Deu 29:12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day:
Deu 29:13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
Deu 29:14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
Deu 29:15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
Exo_12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Num_15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
Num_15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
I wasn't literally present when Jesus was alive, when Jesus taught, when Jesus was betrayed, when Jesus was hung on the cross, when Jesus was buried, when Jesus rose from the dead, when Jesus walked through walls and talked with His disciples, but because I have accepted on faith that Jesus is God and that He came as the son to die and live again to save us, I am saved. Jesus is the ROOT of my salvation. Because He is also LORD (Immanuel-God with us) and He is the WORD.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
I believe it was Jesus who wrote the Ten Words on Stone at Mount Sinai. Exo_31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
The "Law" was given as a marriage contract. All present said "we will do all that the LORD has said to do". I wasn't there personally, but I believe with faith the written Word.
Later, we discover that YHWY divorced the House of Israel, but He did not divorce the House of Judah. House of Judah after captivity (the punishment for disobedience) returned from Babylon back to the promised land. If it wasn't for God preserving the Jews, we would not have the Old Testament writings preserved. The House of Israel was also taken into captivity by Assyria, but they never returned and scattered around the world. Thus, a promise to Abraham before he ever had the promised son Isaac or even Ishmael.
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Now regarding the "Marriage and Divorce" of the House of Israel. God's LAW prohibits God from remarrying the House of Israel. The House of Israel can only remarry if the first husband who was God, dies, then "she" is free to remarry. See Deut 24:1-4.
Laws Concerning Divorce
Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
Paul figured it out and that is why Paul was sent to be the apostle to the Gentiles. Paul spent 3 years with Jesus before he started spreading THE GOSPEL (the good news).
Released from the Law
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
I don't know who is from the House of Israel or who joined the God of Israel and became "Gentiles" or "of the nations" (which means everybody that is not Jewish). I believe with all faith that there are 12 gates of Pearl each with the name of one of the 12 tribes, and Jesus will tell you and me which gate we are to enter and exit that Temple. I do believe there is also different degrees or assignments in the New Kingdom to come.
Mat_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Luk_7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
What is our FRUIT of salvation? I believe Jesus is my Saviour (Root of my FAITH) and He is my LORD (husband) and keeping the eternal laws are my FRUIT of my Faith.
So, that in summary is why the lost still must have the Laws, for it is a mirror to show you your dirty. Because I am not yet raised to immortality, it's still a good mirror for the standards of the betrothed bride to live by. I'm not perfected yet in the flesh and struggle at times with things I know are the flesh battling evil over good. This makes me humble and not proud.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn_2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
Sorry this is too long. Short answers seems to be the norm for most posts.
Deu 29:11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
Deu 29:12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day:
Deu 29:13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
Deu 29:14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
Deu 29:15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
Exo_12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Num_15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
Num_15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
I wasn't literally present when Jesus was alive, when Jesus taught, when Jesus was betrayed, when Jesus was hung on the cross, when Jesus was buried, when Jesus rose from the dead, when Jesus walked through walls and talked with His disciples, but because I have accepted on faith that Jesus is God and that He came as the son to die and live again to save us, I am saved. Jesus is the ROOT of my salvation. Because He is also LORD (Immanuel-God with us) and He is the WORD.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
I believe it was Jesus who wrote the Ten Words on Stone at Mount Sinai. Exo_31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
The "Law" was given as a marriage contract. All present said "we will do all that the LORD has said to do". I wasn't there personally, but I believe with faith the written Word.
Later, we discover that YHWY divorced the House of Israel, but He did not divorce the House of Judah. House of Judah after captivity (the punishment for disobedience) returned from Babylon back to the promised land. If it wasn't for God preserving the Jews, we would not have the Old Testament writings preserved. The House of Israel was also taken into captivity by Assyria, but they never returned and scattered around the world. Thus, a promise to Abraham before he ever had the promised son Isaac or even Ishmael.
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Now regarding the "Marriage and Divorce" of the House of Israel. God's LAW prohibits God from remarrying the House of Israel. The House of Israel can only remarry if the first husband who was God, dies, then "she" is free to remarry. See Deut 24:1-4.
Laws Concerning Divorce
Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
Paul figured it out and that is why Paul was sent to be the apostle to the Gentiles. Paul spent 3 years with Jesus before he started spreading THE GOSPEL (the good news).
Released from the Law
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
I don't know who is from the House of Israel or who joined the God of Israel and became "Gentiles" or "of the nations" (which means everybody that is not Jewish). I believe with all faith that there are 12 gates of Pearl each with the name of one of the 12 tribes, and Jesus will tell you and me which gate we are to enter and exit that Temple. I do believe there is also different degrees or assignments in the New Kingdom to come.
Mat_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Luk_7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
What is our FRUIT of salvation? I believe Jesus is my Saviour (Root of my FAITH) and He is my LORD (husband) and keeping the eternal laws are my FRUIT of my Faith.
So, that in summary is why the lost still must have the Laws, for it is a mirror to show you your dirty. Because I am not yet raised to immortality, it's still a good mirror for the standards of the betrothed bride to live by. I'm not perfected yet in the flesh and struggle at times with things I know are the flesh battling evil over good. This makes me humble and not proud.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn_2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
Sorry this is too long. Short answers seems to be the norm for most posts.
-
1
- Show all
True. I think of this present life of being betrothed to Christ. And one day He will come for His Betrothed. And then we will be fully reborn. Kind of like conception and the baby grows in the mother's womb until the appointed time of birth. The baby is alive from the moment of conception, but it takes time to grow enough to be independent from the womb. Then the baby begins to be nourished with milk until it has grown up enough to eat solids. And at the appointed time comes resurrection day when we will receive our incorruptible bodies and go from mortality to immortality. But I do wonder are our mind's perfected after the resurrection? Are only the House of Israel and House of Judah to receive the new covenant? We pray for thy Kingdom to come, is that the two divided kingdoms are to be made one Kingdom of all who have received salvation in faith of Jesus' works? It seems from the verses below, the writer is not saying the first covenant (Laws to the wife) was imperfect, but the people were imperfect. And when He puts His laws written on our hearts and minds, we shall then be His people, and there will be no need to spread the good news anymore because all shall know Him.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
E
I think I'll be doing better with time Dcon. Has been a rough 6 months or more...thank you for asking.
But am back. Single after 18 years. Not sure how to act.
But am back. Single after 18 years. Not sure how to act.
-
3
- Show all
E
'it is okay to be lawless' is not included in the 'headlines' at all. it's something you added, seemingly from fear.
the solution to your fear that Christians will go around being completely unregenerate hedonists revelling continually in all manner of evil if God's grace is proclaimed is not to lie, rejecting the work of God, and say we are under law.
be holy, for I AM holy, He says. that isn't, be holy or else because the law, and the fear of punishment. that's, i love God, He is beautiful and perfect, and i want to be like Him, i want to imitate Him. so as He is holy i want also to be.
be holy BECAUSE He is. not because you are afraid of being found guilty of breaking law; do you not believe who He is and what He has done?? of course you do! so why would i think i am under threat of condemnation of law? that would be inconsistent with the fact of His salvation just as much as living a life of continuing sin would be.
the solution to your fear that Christians will go around being completely unregenerate hedonists revelling continually in all manner of evil if God's grace is proclaimed is not to lie, rejecting the work of God, and say we are under law.
be holy, for I AM holy, He says. that isn't, be holy or else because the law, and the fear of punishment. that's, i love God, He is beautiful and perfect, and i want to be like Him, i want to imitate Him. so as He is holy i want also to be.
be holy BECAUSE He is. not because you are afraid of being found guilty of breaking law; do you not believe who He is and what He has done?? of course you do! so why would i think i am under threat of condemnation of law? that would be inconsistent with the fact of His salvation just as much as living a life of continuing sin would be.
-
1
- Show all
Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments,{4687} my statutes, and my laws.
( Strong's Exhaustive Concordance) "Commandments" {4687} hebrew mitzvah = a command, whether human or divine. (Coll. the Law) (which was) Commanded, Law, ordinance, precept.
Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. {4687}
Same Hebrew word for both Moses and Abraham.
Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. {8451}
( Strong's Exhaustive Concordance) "Laws" {8451} Hebrew torah = a precept or statute. Decalogue, Pentateuch
Ex. 16:
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? {8451} (before Sinai)
Same Hebrew Word for Moses and Abraham.
"the language does not say Abraham kept the Torah, the word used is torot, a derivative of Torah, but not Torah."
Once again your statement is proven to be false in front of the whole world. Have you no shame?
( Strong's Exhaustive Concordance) "Commandments" {4687} hebrew mitzvah = a command, whether human or divine. (Coll. the Law) (which was) Commanded, Law, ordinance, precept.
Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. {4687}
Same Hebrew word for both Moses and Abraham.
Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. {8451}
( Strong's Exhaustive Concordance) "Laws" {8451} Hebrew torah = a precept or statute. Decalogue, Pentateuch
Ex. 16:
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? {8451} (before Sinai)
Same Hebrew Word for Moses and Abraham.
"the language does not say Abraham kept the Torah, the word used is torot, a derivative of Torah, but not Torah."
Once again your statement is proven to be false in front of the whole world. Have you no shame?
-
1
- Show all
yes , this is the Hebrew word for command .
but, I was speaking of the word LAW. the word Torah is not in the text . the word torot .
so, as usual, when you are proven wrong, you change the subject.
but, I understand, you have to defend your religion.
and, since you do not think Jesus was fully God and fully man, I could care less about what you think .
and no, I am not ashamed to call Jesus Lord and Savior. He is both. much more than Messiah and High Priest.
but, I was speaking of the word LAW. the word Torah is not in the text . the word torot .
so, as usual, when you are proven wrong, you change the subject.
but, I understand, you have to defend your religion.
and, since you do not think Jesus was fully God and fully man, I could care less about what you think .
and no, I am not ashamed to call Jesus Lord and Savior. He is both. much more than Messiah and High Priest.
-
1
- Show all