Question(s) to those who believe salvation can be lost

[Jackson123]

NOTE: This thread is NOT about debating OSAS vs non-OSAS.

Now that we got that out of the way, lets dive into it:

When i attend, I attend a pentecostal service. And as many of you probably know, I disagree with some of the stuff they teach, but I will not bring this up because I dont want to cause strife and division, because im not a pastor, im just a regular guy.

However, I have often heard people who say you can lose your salvation quote Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26 as a proof text.

Now lets assume for argument's sake that those verses mean exactly the way those who believe in conditional security believe they mean: WHY do so many pentecostals and others who believe you can lose your salvation ALSO believe you can GET IT BACK?
Because Hebrews 6:4-6 specifically says its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance? So why all this talk for example about David losing his salvation, then REPENTING and getting it back? Which would go against Hebrews 6:4-6?

For those who just want TL;DR here it is: Why do you believe that you can get your salvation BACK after you lost it, in light of verses that you use to prove salvation can be lost, which say its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance (hebr 6:4-6) and no sacrifice remains and they have trampled the blood of Jesus (hebr 10:26ff)?

I believe the Wage of sin is death.

We have to ask forgiveness when we sin. David sin commit adultery and murder, but he repent than he save. If he keep murder and adultery and never fell Sorry, he Will lose his salvation.

Let say ex murder become pastor, he have to stop murder. If he keep murder every week he Will lose his salvation. But If a minute before he die, he repent and ask forgiveness, he is forgiven.

 

[Jan7777777]

if a person gets saved...really saved, they will no longer have the desire to ( murder....commit adultery...etc) if they continue after SAYING they got saved, ....they didn't get saved, cause the fruits show they didnt

 

[justpassinthrough]

if a person gets saved...really saved, they will no longer have the desire to ( murder....commit adultery...etc) if they continue after SAYING they got saved, ....they didn't get saved, cause the fruits show they didnt

So you believe it’s impossible for one of Christ’s sheep to become lost?


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



Scripture Key:

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

JPT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe the Wage of sin is death.

We have to ask forgiveness when we sin. David sin commit adultery and murder, but he repent than he save. If he keep murder and adultery and never fell Sorry, he Will lose his salvation.

Let say ex murder become pastor, he have to stop murder. If he keep murder every week he Will lose his salvation. But If a minute before he die, he repent and ask forgiveness, he is forgiven.

David commited adultry his whole life. He had many wives..

David was called a man after Gods own heart when he was a kid shepperding his fathers flock. Did God make a mistake? Or was david already saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you believe it’s impossible for one of Christ’s sheep to become lost?


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



Scripture Key:

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

JPT

Considering the shepperd went to find the lost sheep and brought them home.. Yeah, I would say a sheep can not get lost (or at least STAY LOST)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Unless we chose to walk away! God is not a tyrant. We can blaspeme the Holy Spirit, we can choose to abandon the faith. This was the concern of the writer to the Hebrews, that christians would go back to Judaism. Certainly God will not adandon us, but we can abandon him.or what do you think 2 Tim 2:12 means.

I disagree


While I agree we CAN walk away

I disagree any one who has truly experinced Gods love in true faith and true salvation, having been indwelt and sealed by the HS. And experienced what it is like to follow God and see his faithfulness would ever CHOSE to walk away.

We can walk away as prodigal children, but not walk away and reject christ (John calls those people antichrists who were never saved in the first place)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I take your point, but if this were so, why the warnings? It would have been very simple for the apostles to simply state, unequivocally, that once saved always saved. But they don’t. Certainly a christian has security in his salvation, but there is more to it than that. In times of persecution, when facing death, we have to take a stand. There can be no recanting of the faith before men and repenting when the dangers have passed. If we deny God in the test, then we are warned, God will deny us. Or do you think this is written for unbelievers?

They don’t have to say once saved always saved, people who were saved understood that it was God who saved us, and God who keeps us saved. (Except for jews, and some gentiles who still thought religion is what makes us right with God)

The warnings are always to make sure we have or had real faith in Christ, and it was not just for show (even demons believe)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problem I have with this concept of once saved always saved is that it can set people up to accept the mark of the beast. This is a reason why once saved always saved has just not made any sense to me.

Now with the reference to Hebrews 6.6, the reference to "fall away/fallen away", seems to relate to apostasy.

Question, when I was reading the previous verse in Heb 6.5, the reference ".....the age/world to come", is this context in relation to a future time period?

Heb 6 is answered in the verses immediately following, where it says the earth drinks rain, and if it bears thorns and weeds, it is near to being cursed. Near to being cursed is not cursed. Heb 6 is not saying you can lose salvation, It is a warning about going back to law. And showing a truth, IF (maybe they can maybe they can’t) a person can fall away, they could never be renewed. They would be lost forever.

The law says even if a person falls away, Make a sacrifice, atonement is made, the person is renewed.

 

[PS]

NOTE: This thread is NOT about debating OSAS vs non-OSAS.

Now that we got that out of the way, lets dive into it:

When i attend, I attend a pentecostal service. And as many of you probably know, I disagree with some of the stuff they teach, but I will not bring this up because I dont want to cause strife and division, because im not a pastor, im just a regular guy.

However, I have often heard people who say you can lose your salvation quote Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26 as a proof text.

Now lets assume for argument's sake that those verses mean exactly the way those who believe in conditional security believe they mean: WHY do so many pentecostals and others who believe you can lose your salvation ALSO believe you can GET IT BACK?
Because Hebrews 6:4-6 specifically says its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance? So why all this talk for example about David losing his salvation, then REPENTING and getting it back? Which would go against Hebrews 6:4-6?

For those who just want TL;DR here it is: Why do you believe that you can get your salvation BACK after you lost it, in light of verses that you use to prove salvation can be lost, which say its IMPOSSIBLE to renew them again to repentance (hebr 6:4-6) and no sacrifice remains and they have trampled the blood of Jesus (hebr 10:26ff)?

An apostate is someone who, even if they once believed in God, they have a change of heart and later in life totally reject God and deny his existence. For them God does not exist and never has existed. They turn their back on Him. They may even go public and promote atheism, fighting against God. Where is their salvation if they have not God, neither do they believe in Him?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

An apostate is someone who, even if they once believed in God, they have a change of heart and later in life totally reject God and deny his existence. For them God does not exist and never has existed. They turn their back on Him. They may even go public and promote atheism, fighting against God. Where is their salvation if they have not God, neither do they believe in Him?

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

 

[Hevosmies]

The law says even if a person falls away, Make a sacrifice, atonement is made, the person is renewed.

This this this.

So many people dont study the OT at all! They are busy going through the sermon on the mount in the liberal churches for the 2000th time. Not that there is anything wrong with going hrough the sermon on the mount.

But the KEY to understanding how atonement works, is through the OT, which has shadows and types of CHRIST and what He did. The dreaded book of Leviticus among the liberals is actually the book from which Jesus quotes "Love your neighbor as yourself" how about that?

 

[Jackson123]

if a person gets saved...really saved, they will no longer have the desire to ( murder....commit adultery...etc) if they continue after SAYING they got saved, ....they didn't get saved, cause the fruits show they didnt

But David murder and adultery after save

 

[Jackson123]

David commited adultry his whole life. He had many wives..

David was called a man after Gods own heart when he was a kid shepperding his fathers flock. Did God make a mistake? Or was david already saved?

In OT Have many wife is not consider adultery

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In OT Have many wife is not consider adultery

Yeah actually it is.. What other sins are you trying to excuse as not sin?

 

[Jackson123]

Yeah actually it is.. What other sins are you trying to excuse as not sin?

I do not know If there a sin that not sin. But old testament never say do not have more than 1 wife.

 

[PS]

This this this.

So many people dont study the OT at all! They are busy going through the sermon on the mount in the liberal churches for the 2000th time. Not that there is anything wrong with going hrough the sermon on the mount.

But the KEY to understanding how atonement works, is through the OT, which has shadows and types of CHRIST and what He did. The dreaded book of Leviticus among the liberals is actually the book from which Jesus quotes "Love your neighbor as yourself" how about that?

Jesus quoted "love your neighbour" from the Old Testament, because that way, those Jews who were stealing from their own parents even, let alone their neighbour, did not have an answer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not know If there a sin that not sin. But old testament never say do not have more than 1 wife.

You ever heard the term adultry?

Again, Stop excusing peoples sin.

 

[Jackson123]

You ever heard the term adultry?

Again, Stop excusing peoples sin.

Yep but old testament never say poligamy is adultry

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep but old testament never say poligamy is adultry

Yeah whatever.
God said a man and woman leaves their parents and become one.

He never once said they become many.

Again I ask you. What other sins do you excuse as not sin?

 

[Jackson123]

Yeah whatever.
God said a man and woman leaves their parents and become one.

He never once said they become many.

Again I ask you. What other sins do you excuse as not sin?

He never say in OT poligamy is adultery. But He say adultery is sin.

When David commit adultery and murder, God sent Nathan to warn David. To tell David that he commit sin.

So when David commit sin, God warn him.

Before he murder uriah and adultery to bethzebs, he already have more than one wife. Why Nathan not warn him of his poligamy?

After Nathan warn him, he still poligamy. Why Nathan not say divorce your extra wife or God Will punish you

If sin is ok, why God punish David for his murder and adultery?