Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

[NayborBear]

There is no contradiction in this statement . . .

BaptistBibleBeliever said:
I never claimed that the Father 'gave' Him all mankind. Jesus died for all mankind. Will all mankind be saved? No. Because they don't want to. That does not LIMIT the invitation.

Now as to the Father, He is not willing that any should perish . . . in other words, it is not His sovereign will that any should perish. He would love to see all saved, but His foreknowledge showed Him that they will not.

but a Calvinist would find a contradiction in the word 'hi.'

What specifically is the contradiction . . . rather than it 'seems' like there is one.

Do you "see" what you are saying here? Although, I am not a mormon, nor JW, nor calvinist, nor armeanian, nor catholic, nor episcopalian, nor prebster, nor luthern, nor methodist, nor a jew, nor a messianic, nor a myriad of other denominations, or sub denominations. I must refute those, who by the spirit of anti (instead of) Christ, deny the God, and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! Honor the Son? Honor the Father! Is just "that!" HONORING! Honoring is not proceeding UNTO!

Romans 8
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

These same people also "magnify" Christ above His Father! Inasmuch as in their teachings, and flowery speeches, speak contradictory, as to give hints or warnings against going UNTO the Father! Rather decieving themselves and all who would give ear to them, that "This is a safe space for us to be in!" "I know Jesus!" What need have I, in going unto the Father?" Believing and answering the "call to Christ", is ALL ONE NEED do! Thus, turning a deaf ear, and eye, to the Higher CALLING of God IN Christ!

There's a whole LOTTA "PUNK'D n DUNKED" people who play church!

Actually, feel a little sorry for BBB, inasmuch as his running around like a chicken with his head cut off, in his constant and relentless endeavors, in pigeon holing, every poster posting, on which denomination, every word from every poster, so that he can rationalize in the natural man brain, that which is Spiritually discerned.
"This guy said this!" "Therefore, he must be of this denomination!" "Wait a minute!" "Now, he's saying this!" "Now, he must be of this denomination!" And, on, and on, and on it goes!

Doncha get tired of the constant striving of this "God in a box" traditions of man agenda?

Joel 2
11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
12 Therefore also now, saith the Lord, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the Lord your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

 

[carl11]

faith is not a work. that is complete and utter NONSENSE

tell you what, I doubt you will try to find what I am talking about so here is a reference to it

Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6

1Thess. 1:3; 2Thess. 1:11. The faith in view can only be the faith of Christ because his name also means faith. [Rev. 19:11]

He was faithful to pay the price needed to fulfill everything it was his work that did it all.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Sure there is a contradiction because you seem not to understand why Christ died.

I figured you were going to tell me what the contradiction is . . . you can't do it . . . okay.

 

[garee]

Sure there is a contradiction because you seem not to understand why Christ died.

Eternal God did not actually die(impossible) He poured out His Spirit life in jeopardy of His own Spirit ..... giving new birth to new creatures.

Jesus's body as the Son of man is of the temporal. He informs us flesh and blood cannot profit . His flesh not did not see corruption for three days with three signifying the end of a matter. No power is attributed to the Son of man seen, the temporal . All glory as power goes to the unseen eternal Son of God.( the Holy unseen place)

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

No such thing as the flesh of holiness. ( Catholic doctrine)

 

[garee]

7seasrekeyed said: is God a system?

Rather than the one source of faith by which we can hear him as he gives us His understanding. The understanding that works in us with us to both will and do his good pleasure as a imputed righteousness.

Faith must be reconciled to the one author. The righteous One..... whose name is Faith

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Jesus's body as the Son of man is of the temporal. He informs us flesh and blood cannot profit

Explain this

"And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends" (Zechariah 13:6).

 

[Hevosmies]

Explain this

"And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends" (Zechariah 13:6).

QUite a few on this forum deny the PHYSICAL, LITERAL, BODILY resurrection. I was surprised to say the least.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Faith is a opportunity for our faithful Creator to work out His desire. Faith is a work

Without believing something would appear when God said let there be (the working out of His faith or belief ) nothing would appear.

It can be compared to a flesh and bone body that has no spirit to move the body. Deader than a door nail.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:6

Natural man has no faith to hear God. It there every person begins with"no faith"..... "no God working in us"

From my experience many refuse to acknowledge God does need to believe exercise what he does before something can happen . Its like why would God need faith? Not thinking it through to the end of the matter. where it speak directly to the issue.

The best example I can think of is in Roman 3 .where it speak directly to the issue.

What if someone does not believe the oracles of God (no faith) Will their no faith (no belief) make the work of God's faith without effect. To effect something is to work it out.

Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Romans 3:2-3

I think I see what you are driving at; Eph 2 explains how God changed the natural man, who had no spiritual faith, by regeneration and gave him the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which faith is a fruit of the Spirit. We are born unto good works, but if we fail to do good works, then our faith grows weak . Just because our faith grows weak, does not mean we lose our eternal destination.

 

[carl11]

I figured you were going to tell me what the contradiction is . . . you can't do it . . . okay.

I did show you in a brief sense In the first post and again briefly in the 2nd and here again. The contradiction is that you seem you do not understand why the reason Christ paid the penalty.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I did show you in a brief sense In the first post and again briefly in the 2nd and here again. The contradiction is that you seem you do not understand why the reason Christ paid the penalty.

seem? seem is not a contradiction except for the way you are using it. Other than that, you got nothing.

 

[carl11]

Eternal God did not actually die(impossible)

You are correct that Christ who is God can not die. But he did die physically in a physical body and yet as you have also said he his body did not see corruption. Spiritually he cannot die.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

You are correct that Christ who is God can not die. But he did die physically in a physical body and yet as you have also said he his body did not see corruption. Spiritually he cannot die.

The meaning of spiritual death is separation from God the Father. In that case, He did indeed die spiritually. It was a complete death or it was no death at all. He said that He had to power to lay His life down and to pick it back up.

So, if Calvinists do not even believe Christ really died, how can they claim to be saved?

 

[carl11]

seem? seem is not a contradiction except for the way you are using it. Other than that, you got nothing.

Oh again you are wrong You contradicted yourself in that you said Christ died for all and then turned around and said some will face judgment. By your admission it is clear you do not understand why and whom Christ paid the price for.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Oh again you are wrong You contradicted yourself in that you said Christ died for all and then turned around and said some will face judgment. By your admission it is clear you do not understand why and whom Christ paid the price for.

Christ died FOR ALL . . . but utilizing their free will, most will not receive the free gift of eternal life which is bought and paid for in advance by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

What you appear to be saying is that if Christ died for someone that person is saved and needs do nothing because it is God that gives them faith and they just naturally believe.

Heck, you do not even believe that Christ completely died anyway - so your 'another gospel' is accursed.

 

[Hevosmies]

Christ died FOR ALL . . . but utilizing their free will, most will not receive the free gift of eternal life which is bought and paid for in advance by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

What you appear to be saying is that if Christ died for someone that person is saved and needs do nothing because it is God that gives them faith and they just naturally believe.

Heck, you do not even believe that Christ completely died anyway - so your 'another gospel' is accursed.

This is a calvinist trick they like to play. "Jesus died for all, therefore all are saved".
Its ridicilous.

THEY DENY THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM (Btw that verse refutes calvinism in and of itself)

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Simply put:
Calvinism is supralapsarianism, monergism, doctrinally hold to the 5 solas and the TULIP (5 points) -Reformers, so-called
Amyraldianism is infralapsarian, synergism, ie: Baptist Baptist denominations can differ a bit
Arminian came from a man who was a heretic who also denied the Trinity, Law keepers, Man is the master of his fate, most cults fall in this group because it fosters control by the heirarchy in the organization. synergism ie: Methodist
Pelagian -super super over the top Calvinists.......if you aren't a calvinist you aren't save- hold to basic calvinism but will only fellowship with other Pelagians monergism
Semi-Pelagians are really 4 point calvinists, denying man's innate sin nature monergism

There is much more that could be discussed, but these are the basic differences in doctrinal views.

And just so ya know........all the early church fathers as well as those "reformers" such as Tyndale, Wycliffe and Hus were all "calvinists".
Even the Council of Orange in 529AD (or thereabouts) agreed to the truth of these so-called calvinist doctrines.

 

[preacher4truth]

Pelagian -super super over the top Calvinists.......if you aren't a calvinist you aren't save- hold to basic calvinism but will only fellowship with other Pelagians monergism
Semi-Pelagians are really 4 point calvinists, denying man's innate sin nature monergism

You have absolutely zero clue on Pelagianism. Calvinism is the extreme opposite of that teaching, and it, Pelagianism is in no way monergistic or in any way Calvinistic. Please don't post such misinformation.

 

[Hevosmies]

Pelagian -super super over the top Calvinists.......if you aren't a calvinist you aren't save- hold to basic calvinism but will only fellowship with other Pelagians monergism
Semi-Pelagians are really 4 point calvinists, denying man's innate sin nature monergism

There is much more that could be discussed, but these are the basic differences in doctrinal views.

And just so ya know........all the early church fathers as well as those "reformers" such as Tyndale, Wycliffe and Hus were all "calvinists".
Even the Council of Orange in 529AD (or thereabouts) agreed to the truth of these so-called calvinist doctrines.

You know that Pelagians are like the main ENEMIES of calvinists? Right? Augustine vs Pelagius was the whole deal. Pelagius is their nemesis

 

[GraceAndTruth]

World = 2889= KOSMOS = orderly arrangement, decoration, check your GREEK

ONLY BY IMPLICATION (meaning, the text determines the exact meaning) the world in the wide OR narrow sense, includes the inhabitants.
Ie: the wide sense would be the entire world…….the narrow sense would be a certain group of people


“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you, If you were of the world, the world would love it’s own; but you are NOT of the world, but I CHOSE you OUT OF THE WORLD, therefore the world hates you.”
John 15: 18-19

The Intercession of Christ for His beloved at the Last Supper
“ I ask on their (the disciples) behalf, I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom THOU HAST GIVEN ME; for THEY ARE THINE”

 

[GraceAndTruth]

well, somebody is clueless and I'm sure it isn't me