Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
I have had both surgical tools used on me. A proctoscope is used in inspection the colon and an endoscope is used inside a small opening in the skin with another opening with an air pump keeping the skin above the rest of the body. When surgery is performed 2 more small openings are used for the surgical tools. I had that kind of surgery performed on me with the explanation from the doctor detailing how the surgery would be done. So I have had both kinds of surgery performed on me. Therefore I understand both tools and procedures they are used for. At 74 I have had several surgeries done on me!
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,665
6,853
113
You ignored what the post said where it first defined a proctoscope and then the endoscopic surgery. Basically calling me a liar. It was from a medical site. You do this on a Christian site. Shame on you!!!

Quote those sites about using a proctoscope for endoscopic surgery.

AGAIN, FROM WEB MD

Endoscopy is a nonsurgical procedure used to examine a person's digestive tract. Using an endoscope, a flexible tube with a light and camera attached to it, your doctor can view pictures of your digestive tract on a color TV monitor.

A special form of endoscopy called endoscopic retrograde cholangiopancreaticography, or ERCP, allows pictures of the pancreas, gallbladder, and related structures to be taken. ERCP is also used for stent placement and biopsies.

Endoscopic ultrasound or EUS combines upper endoscopy and ultrasoundexamination to obtain images and information about various parts of the digestive tract.


Methinks it is not me that is lying.............

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...ndoscopy/RK=2/RS=1AguUALGFehoH0SrueYD7IGL2IU-

However, as you are a Calvinist, I suppose you have been predestined to not understand...........sooooo, it's really not your fault.
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
113
71
Illinois
You are saying and not only you but many others that hold fast to this same idea that Christ died for "all" or "all of mankind" I am fully aware of the verses that you will use. But the fact is that we need to define first of all the reason why Christ died. So riddle me this what was the reasoning in why Christ died ?
So, no contradiction then? As I thought.

Since you already know what verses I'm going to use, I'd just be contending with myself.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
AGAIN, FROM WEB MD

Endoscopy is a nonsurgical procedure used to examine a person's digestive tract. Using an endoscope, a flexible tube with a light and camera attached to it, your doctor can view pictures of your digestive tract on a color TV monitor.

A special form of endoscopy called endoscopic retrograde cholangiopancreaticography, or ERCP, allows pictures of the pancreas, gallbladder, and related structures to be taken. ERCP is also used for stent placement and biopsies.

Endoscopic ultrasound or EUS combines upper endoscopy and ultrasoundexamination to obtain images and information about various parts of the digestive tract.


Methinks it is not me that is lying.............

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...ndoscopy/RK=2/RS=1AguUALGFehoH0SrueYD7IGL2IU-

However, as you are a Calvinist, I suppose you have been predestined to not understand...........sooooo, it's really not your fault.
ROTFL
I don't care what those links say I know what my doctor told me!! I underwent surgery on the stomach and start of the small intestine. There were 4 small incisions made. One had an air pump attached to keep my skin off of my body. Two were used for the long handled surgical tools and the last was for an endoscope. My doctor explained how the surgery would be done and what would be used. It was an endoscope he would use where one end was attached to his head. It seems that Arminians are too dense to understand simple English!! Such a sorry excuse for a man to call me a liar.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
So, no contradiction then? As I thought.

Since you already know what verses I'm going to use, I'd just be contending with myself.
It seems that some on here ignore the verse that states God knew the end from the begining. As such he set the solar system to have the required eclipses condemn countries when an eclipse crosses directly across it going from a border on one side to the border on the other side. That has happened recently to the US. In 2024 another eclipse will cross from the northeast to southwest going through 7 cities named Salem. Thus drawing an X on the US. Looks like God is condemning this country. It started as a Christian country and now is almost all secular. The gospel message is only preached in a sliver of churches of sub denominations. A little less than half of the people attend church but the top protestant denominations have since the 1880s been going secular with secular ministers getting into the position to have access to the church money. Presbyterian PCA made itself immune by having the board of deacons in charge of the church money. Ministers only get a renewable small pot of money for mercy work. The mercy committee spends the bulk of mercy money.
 
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
113
71
Illinois
"I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8).

Although, since God has already hand-picked who will be saved, it seems like an odd question for Jesus to be asking. The answer is no, of course not - no faith on the earth . . . because God didn't pick them.

Incidentally, verse 7 mentions the word 'elect.' So, you would think Jesus would know who the elect are? Unless it is speaking of everyone that responded to the Gospel message and were saved through their own free will.

Lot's of people are gong to say no to Jesus.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
It seems that some on here ignore the verse that states God knew the end from the begining. As such he set the solar system to have the required eclipses condemn countries when an eclipse crosses directly across it going from a border on one side to the border on the other side. That has happened recently to the US. In 2024 another eclipse will cross from the northeast to southwest going through 7 cities named Salem. Thus drawing an X on the US. Looks like God is condemning this country. It started as a Christian country and now is almost all secular. The gospel message is only preached in a sliver of churches of sub denominations. A little less than half of the people attend church but the top protestant denominations have since the 1880s been going secular with secular ministers getting into the position to have access to the church money. Presbyterian PCA made itself immune by having the board of deacons in charge of the church money. Ministers only get a renewable small pot of money for mercy work. The mercy committee spends the bulk of mercy money.
My friend, what denomination do you attend, if you don’t mind me asking?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
He gave the opportunity for people to be saved by grace through faith in Jesus. That faith then creates works. James states that faith without works is dead. Works doesn't save but works proves faith. James said the following.

James 2 AMPC
14 What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,
16 And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
18 But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
If you believe in eternal salvation by grace, Explain your statement; "He gave the opportunity for people to be saved".
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
"I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8).

Although, since God has already hand-picked who will be saved, it seems like an odd question for Jesus to be asking. The answer is no, of course not - no faith on the earth . . . because God didn't pick them.

Incidentally, verse 7 mentions the word 'elect.' So, you would think Jesus would know who the elect are? Unless it is speaking of everyone that responded to the Gospel message and were saved through their own free will.

Lot's of people are gong to say no to Jesus.
"NO" to what question?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
It wasn't Abraham's faith because faith is a work, it has to be the faith of Christ that he imputed so that it was counted righteous.
I can only recommend a thorough search of the scriptures...Berean stye..and you will find what I said was true

sure, I could quote the source, but I'm thinking a refresher would be more beneficial

faith is not a work. that is complete and utter NONSENSE

tell you what, I doubt you will try to find what I am talking about so here is a reference to it

Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6

you folks getting all in a snitch over works and faith and somehow thinking you never believe.....you will not receive the Holy Spirit to begin with, so saying that you basically are saved through some sort of osmosis and no will of your own is so far out there, that it has an orbit of a few million years around the sun

that's not just Calvinism...that is HYPER Calvinism and I doubt Mr Calvin would recognize it...it's nonsense
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
If you are neither calvinist, nor arminian, what system do you have, then, to make sense of God's predetermination of the future events, the origin of evil and of our free will?
is God a system?

Jesus?

the Holy Spirit?

man...go live your life and be filled with the Holy Spirit! it will only begin to make sense then

the rest, is human reasoning
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
glad to be of service but I have no idea what a Buffalo Latte is?

down in the States here they sadly do not have Tim's and I find Dunkin's waaay to sweet with their doughnuts :giggle:
Wait let me look it up......Oh they put Buffalo sauce (like for chicken wings) on the whipped cream.

yeah I just liked the picture....but maybe it is worth a try, maybe I could have it with my chicken wings LOL
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Wait let me look it up......Oh they put Buffalo sauce (like for chicken wings) on the whipped cream.

yeah I just liked the picture....but maybe it is worth a try, maybe I could have it with my chicken wings LOL

I like buffalo sauce...spicy anything just about...but I like whipped cream au naturel

chicken wings...mmmmmmm
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
If you believe in eternal salvation by grace, Explain your statement; "He gave the opportunity for people to be saved".
Faith is a opportunity for our faithful Creator to work out His desire. Faith is a work

Without believing something would appear when God said let there be (the working out of His faith or belief ) nothing would appear.

It can be compared to a flesh and bone body that has no spirit to move the body. Deader than a door nail.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:6

Natural man has no faith to hear God. It there every person begins with"no faith"..... "no God working in us"

From my experience many refuse to acknowledge God does need to believe exercise what he does before something can happen . Its like why would God need faith? Not thinking it through to the end of the matter. where it speak directly to the issue.

The best example I can think of is in Roman 3 .where it speak directly to the issue.

What if someone does not believe the oracles of God (no faith) Will their no faith (no belief) make the work of God's faith without effect. To effect something is to work it out.

Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Romans 3:2-3
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
Unless it is speaking of everyone that responded to the Gospel message and were saved through their own free will.
bu-bu-but..... thats works salvation. If God doesn't supernaturally without your knowledge grant you salvation (regeneration) first and then belief second, its WORKS salvation.

You heard it here first folks.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
is God a system?

Jesus?

the Holy Spirit?

man...go live your life and be filled with the Holy Spirit! it will only begin to make sense then

the rest, is human reasoning
In other words, you do not know and live just according to your inclinations, without thinking deeper and without using systematic reason given to us by God?

Also, why do you think that having a system and thinking about these things is in some kind of a contradiction to "go live your life, man"?