Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

[Blik]

That's a great point. And worth some discussion.
This will help you to better understabd where I am coming from.
We may be closer to agreement than you realize.

I'll take this further if you want to discuss it in more detail.
But let's start with this.

I see a difference between "the law" and "God's law". And so does the Apostle Paul.
In the scripture below he uses the terms "the law", "God's law", and "Christ's law".
Defining what he means in the parenthetical statements.

He says:
- I myself am not under the law (not under)
- I am not free from God’s law (different than the law)
- but am under Christ’s law (under)

1 Corinthians 9:20-22
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.

I see Paul, with his training under Gamaliel, getting carried away as Paul often does making his point that the Pharisees of his day was not obeying the law when they did it mechanically so he sort of pounded into them the law as God gave the law. He even said the law as they were obeying it killed. But Paul never said anything that could not be proven with scripture, the only scripture that Paul knew of, our OT.. If Paul preached that all law was done away with it would not be the same teaching that God had given, we can rule that out and try for a better understanding of what Paul taught.

Paul taught that mechanical law obedience was out, obedience must be from understanding law through God's eyes.

The men who wrote down what they heard from God lived and thought with the way things were at the time of Christ. In order to get the meaning of how they put things we would need to study writings of that time. That phrase "under the law" has been misunderstood by today's people, perfectly understood if you lived in Jerusalem in the first century. We can know that God inspired scripture so any idea in scripture must agree with any other idea for God is unchangeable and eternal. God gave law and said it was good in a majority of scripture. Here we think that God is changing it to say that you can forget it all, doesn't apply to us. Something does not add up.

So think it through. If we are not under law yet the law applies to us so we should use it to guide us at the same time, it must mean that we have grace for salvation. That is what scripture tells us from Genesis to Rev. God does not ask us to earn our salvation through what we do, law is given to us for other reasons. So we listen to law for those other reasons, but we don't listen to it for salvation.

 

[Dino246]

I see Paul, with his training under Gamaliel, getting carried away as Paul often does making his point that the Pharisees of his day was not obeying the law when they did it mechanically so he sort of pounded into them the law as God gave the law. He even said the law as they were obeying it killed. But Paul never said anything that could not be proven with scripture, the only scripture that Paul knew of, our OT.. If Paul preached that all law was done away with it would not be the same teaching that God had given, we can rule that out and try for a better understanding of what Paul taught.

Paul taught that mechanical law obedience was out, obedience must be from understanding law through God's eyes.

The men who wrote down what they heard from God lived and thought with the way things were at the time of Christ. In order to get the meaning of how they put things we would need to study writings of that time. That phrase "under the law" has been misunderstood by today's people, perfectly understood if you lived in Jerusalem in the first century. We can know that God inspired scripture so any idea in scripture must agree with any other idea for God is unchangeable and eternal. God gave law and said it was good in a majority of scripture. Here we think that God is changing it to say that you can forget it all, doesn't apply to us. Something does not add up.

So think it through. If we are not under law yet the law applies to us so we should use it to guide us at the same time, it must mean that we have grace for salvation. That is what scripture tells us from Genesis to Rev. God does not ask us to earn our salvation through what we do, law is given to us for other reasons. So we listen to law for those other reasons, but we don't listen to it for salvation.

I notice that you don't list any "other reasons". The Law was given to Israel. Only Israel was ever under the Law. That temporary covenant was set aside. Christians aren't to take the Law as prescriptive, because it wasn't given to Christians as prescriptive. It was given as a tutor to lead Israel to Christ. Galatians explains the two covenants: that of Abraham and that of Moses. The Law is of Moses, not of Abraham. Our relationship with God is on the basis of faith, not Law... period.

 

[Lillywolf]

How are you defining the term "the law"? (the Ten, the Two, the 613)

Do you know the difference? Do you know which one(s) pertain to the Christian?

 

[p_rehbein]

I will say that in my experience, the majority of Christians "put the Law aside" on a daily basis.......OR......at least every time they get behind the wheel of their auto........

For whatever reason, Believers do not believe they need to obey the Laws of Caesar.........hmm.........wonder why? What did Jesus say about that? hmm

When you see a crazy driver going ninety to nothing down the highway, they are either drunk or a Christian........OR BOTH

 

[p_rehbein]

I didn't say I'm not a teacher. I said I'm not YOUR teacher.

I pray to God you aren't teaching anyone.............and, you certainly (based on your comments thus far) are not qualified to teach any Member here.

 

[Studyman]

="Sketch, post: 3758718, member: 276907"]Before... until... until... Now...

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.


When was the law put aside?

There was a law called the Levitical Priesthood given By God to Moses for the cleansing of sins. This is the Law that was "added" because of transgression of an existing law "until the seed should come".

"After those days" as Jeri. 31 says, the Christ Himself will administer God's Laws and cleanse us of our sins.

Before these days, there was a Priesthood which performed sacrificial "Works of the Law" for the remission of sins.. The Pharisees (mainstream preachers of Christ's time) didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah so they continued to promote their version of these "works of the law" for justification of sins. Paul is explaining that this Priesthood has been changed as prophesied in the Law and Prophets. That we are no longer justified by the Law of justification.

This is the Law that foreshadowed the Christ's sinless life ( unblemished bullock) and sacrifice ( blood on the alter). This is the school master which was to lead them to the perfect sacrifice of the Christ.

As prophesied, there are many who teach a different gospel. They would teach that All of God's Commandments are destroyed, are against us, burden us imprison us and make us blind and are set aside.

This is the same exact teaching the serpent gave to Eve. It was the Priesthood Abraham didn't have that was changed. Not God's "good, just, and Holy" Laws of God. (see Heb. 7 - 10)

Although very popular in modern religions, this is not the same Gospel the Christ created for His People.

As the Word of God says.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Eph. 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Eph. 5:
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Col. 3:
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

James 1:
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

Matt. 7:
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Not to be confused with Paul speaking about the Levites "Works of the Law" for justification of sins.

Rom.3:
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It was their version of these "DEEDS OF THE LAW" That the Jews were "bewitching" the Galatians" with.

Not love God and Love you neighbor, and the 10 commandments. Jesus Himself said they are not set aside.

Matt. 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And again from His inspiration

2Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[Studyman]

Do you define "under the law" as being under the condemnation of the law?
If so, I do not agree with that definition. There are two scriptures that confirm this for me.
Here is one of them. Why would anyone WANT to be under the condemnation of the law?

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?

When a man sin's he is placed "under the law" or dead. When the Christ takes the past sin away, we are no longer dead, or under the law. We have been freed from the law, until we rebel against God and break it again.

Rom. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, (alive from the dead) and not in the oldness of the letter.(the soul that sins shall die)

We become alive under Grace, not dead under the law.

Shall we continue in the lifestyle that caused our death in the first place?

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

How can we know sin unless God defines it for us.? There is only one spirit that wants folks to believe God has set aside His definition of sin. Eve was deceived by that spirit

 

[Lillywolf]

you mean stupid like saying that Jesus was crucified on wed. and rose on the Sabbath so that you can push Sabbath keeping for salvation?

like that?

I've not read a single post that makes the claim you accuse there. There is nothing in scriptures either old or new that implies, states directly, that we must keep the Sabbath in order to be or remain saved.

If you've found such scripture please post it. Thanks in advance.

 

[p_rehbein]

Dis troll gonna be so fat from all he is being fed........Jenny Craig will have to work overtime to get him back down under 300lbs

 

[gb9]

I've not read a single post that makes the claim you accuse there. There is nothing in scriptures either old or new that implies, states directly, that we must keep the Sabbath in order to be or remain saved.

If you've found such scripture please post it. Thanks in advance.

you are correct, their is not. but, some on here think you do. since I started calling them out directly, they do not say it openly as they did in the past.

there is this theology called Hebrew roots. you can look it up.

one of the pillars of it is this- Jesus was crucified on wed, the rose on the Sabbath ( sat. ) not sun.

so, keeping the Sabbath is the same as the Lord's Day.

this is what I stand against.

but, you are correct in what you said.

 

[Lillywolf]

you are correct, their is not. but, some on here think you do. since I started calling them out directly, they do not say it openly as they did in the past.

there is this theology called Hebrew roots. you can look it up.

one of the pillars of it is this- Jesus was crucified on wed, the rose on the Sabbath ( sat. ) not sun.

so, keeping the Sabbath is the same as the Lord's Day.

this is what I stand against.

but, you are correct in what you said.

Yes, I'm aware of the Hebrew Roots movement.
For those who are not there is this article from, Answers in Genesis.

Abstract
The Hebrew Roots Movement has influenced hundreds of thousands of Christians in recent decades, and many more have encountered arguments from those in that group. The movement places a strong emphasis on Hebrew traditions and the Law of Moses. This article will describe the nature of the Hebrew Roots Movement, examine some of its major beliefs in light of relevant biblical passages, and challenge those who have been influenced by its teachings.


At-a-Glance

• Certain Jewish teachings are elevated to the level of Scripture.
• The Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM) misunderstands the extent and scope of the Mosaic law.
• The “Jerusalem Council” rejected the notion that Gentile believers must follow the Law of Moses.
• The Apostle Paul refuted many of the most popular teachings of the HRM.

The Growing Dangers of the Hebrew Roots Movement.... Continues @ https://answersingenesis.org/presuppositions/dangers-hebrew-roots-movement/

 

[lightbearer]

Hey! Sketch... PTL!
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until all is fulfilled.
Before I had faith, I was kept under the law, shut up unto the faith that should afterwards be revealed.
The reason the law is in effect until heaven and earth pass is that even those born during the Millennium are not born with faith, And are therefore under the OT law.

So that the law was put aside for me, when I turned to the Lord in faith. Faith has been around from the beginning because, the just shall live by faith.

Every person born into the world is under the law until they turn to Jesus in faith. So that each person who dies without forgiveness will be judged by the standard found within the OT law.
Otherwise, there is no reason for the law not to have ended when Jesus died and rose from the dead..

Maranatha!

Not only the Law but Pentateuch (the Word) as a whole.
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(2Ti 3:15-16 KJV)

 

[Blik]

In God's eyes humans are all His creation, all the same. Jews are especially blessed because God used them to show everyone about Him, as the OT is all about. God is open to all people, always was and always is. God isn't new and old, God is I Am, eternal, always the same.

 

[Blik]

you are correct, their is not. but, some on here think you do. since I started calling them out directly, they do not say it openly as they did in the past.

there is this theology called Hebrew roots. you can look it up.

one of the pillars of it is this- Jesus was crucified on wed, the rose on the Sabbath ( sat. ) not sun.

so, keeping the Sabbath is the same as the Lord's Day.

this is what I stand against.

but, you are correct in what you said.

Scripture asks us to obey the law. Christ said that if you love me you will keep my commandments. Anyone who posts this is accused by you of saying that they preach keeping the commandments for salvation, and every time it has been an outright lie you have made with your accusation. Now!!! you are saying that you are into their minds (into the occult of mind reading?) and know what they are thinking. So stop it, yet.

 

[Dino246]

Scripture asks us to obey the law. Christ said that if you love me you will keep my commandments. Anyone who posts this is accused by you of saying that they preach keeping the commandments for salvation, and every time it has been an outright lie you have made with your accusation. Now!!! you are saying that you are into their minds (into the occult of mind reading?) and know what they are thinking. So stop it, yet.

When you conflate the commandments given to Moses with those that Jesus called "my commandments", you are led to the necessary conclusion that Peter, Paul and James were complete heretics and their teachings are not God-ordained Scripture.

There is another interpretation: that by "my commandments", Jesus did not mean the entire Law of Moses.

 

[Lillywolf]

When you conflate the commandments given to Moses with those that Jesus called "my commandments", you are led to the necessary conclusion that Peter, Paul and James were complete heretics and their teachings are not God-ordained Scripture.

There is another interpretation: that by "my commandments", Jesus did not mean the entire Law of Moses.

It is an ages old issue isn't it? People call it, the Law of Moses. It wasn't. It was the Law of God. Moses was simply the receiver of the revelation. They were not Moses' laws at all.

 

[Dino246]

It is an ages old issue isn't it? People call it, the Law of Moses. It wasn't. It was the Law of God. Moses was simply the receiver of the revelation. They were not Moses' laws at all.

If you read my post carefully, you would not have made yours.

 

[Blik]

When you conflate the commandments given to Moses with those that Jesus called "my commandments", you are led to the necessary conclusion that Peter, Paul and James were complete heretics and their teachings are not God-ordained Scripture.

There is another interpretation: that by "my commandments", Jesus did not mean the entire Law of Moses.

Can you possibly say that the commentary Jesus gave on the commandments cancelled that law as Moses gave it? In that case we would be told that Jesus was not true to the Father, Jesus is a new God who cancelled what the Father said. So. Jesus said you could lie, steal and murder for as Jesus explained the spirit of the law Jesus was cancelling? I don't think so.

 

[Lillywolf]

If you read my post carefully, you would not have made yours.

That's very presumptuous of you. And wrong. In point of fact if you had read my post reply to your remarks you would not have written your post thinking to try and criticize me.
You said: "There is another interpretation: that by "my commandments", Jesus did not mean the entire Law of Moses. "

My reply post was on point. Thanks.

 

[Blik]

Here is some history I dug up pertaining to what was happening during the time of Christ.

People were beginning to see the advantages of living the kind of life the Jews lived for the true Jews were kind to each other and fair in their dealings so people asked to join their synagogue.

The Jews felt that if they joined they should do the rituals as they did, they called a lot of them the traditions like circumcision, dietary laws, etc. Some ex pagans would join for awhile and then a party would come up and off they would go forgetting all about Jewish ways. So the Rabbis decided to make it tough to join to keep these people out in the first place.

They made up 18 laws, and we know they did because it was written about but there isn't one copy of the laws to be found.

After Christ rose and the synagogues openly invited gentiles it was the talk of the town that they could join the synagogue and forget the traditions. They called the traditions Law of Moses.