Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

[mailmandan]

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Lord said He came to fulfill the Law. Are you trying to imply that He failed?

If that is the case then you are under every jot and every tittle of the law.

There can be no curse lifted from the Law UNLESS it has been fulfilled.

The Christian Rest is coming to Christ and being GIVEN Grace and being Delivered from the Law and its curse. Right Now.

If the law of Moses bears the same status to men today, in terms of it binding, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if Jesus did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ and remains as a binding legal system for today then it is not just partially binding, but totally binding. Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” would pass away until all was fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled the law, all of the law and not just part of it. We cannot say that Jesus merely fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the rest of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it.

In Hebrews 4:9, we read - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. Here the Sabbath rest is the perpetual rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with Jesus Christ, in contrast to keeping the weekly seventh day Sabbath under the law.

 

[glf1]

If the law of Moses bears the same status to men today, in terms of it binding, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if Jesus did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ and remains as a binding legal system for today then it is not just partially binding, but totally binding. Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” would pass away until all was fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled the law, all of the law and not just part of it. We cannot say that Jesus merely fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the rest of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it.

In Hebrews 4:9, we read - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. Here the Sabbath rest is the perpetual rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with Jesus Christ, in contrast to keeping the weekly seventh day Sabbath under the law.

Hey! mailmandan... PTL!
Why does it have to be all or none, now? Could not Jesus have fulfilled some prophecy during his first advent and then complete fulfilling it all when he returns again to rule from upon King David's throne as was also prophesied?
Maranatha!

 

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So, please enlighten us with your views concerning this

This is pretty much "student speak".

 

[Sketch]

Good you know that.......so don't act like it when you post a Thread, ok?

I didn't say I'm not a teacher. I said I'm not YOUR teacher.

 

[Sketch]

The Law was fulfilled at the Death of Christ on the cross.

The Power of the Gospel was shown at the Resurrection of Christ.


The Law is not set aside until each individual person is given rest by coming to Christ.

You can't just tell someone that the law has been set aside at some certain point in history because each person is under law until they come to faith in Christ.

Here is what you said originally that seemed off to me.
- "The Law was fulfilled at the Death of Christ on the cross."
- "The Law is not set aside until each individual person is given rest by coming to Christ."

I typically hear of the law being set aside on the cross. This scripture is used to make that statement.

Ephesians 2:14-16
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one
and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations.
His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross,
by which he put to death their hostility.

 

[gb9]

Here is what you said originally that seemed off to me.
- "The Law was fulfilled at the Death of Christ on the cross."
- "The Law is not set aside until each individual person is given rest by coming to Christ."

I typically hear of the law being set aside on the cross. This scripture is used to make that statement.

Ephesians 2:14-16
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one
and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations.
His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,
16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross,
by which he put to death their hostility.

let's get to the point- do you think a Christ follower has to keep the Law of Moses to be saved or maintain salvation?

 

[Sketch]

I would offer, the letter of the law that kills.It was made complete or prefect by the spirit of the law. the law of faith The letter of the law has its place even for a believer. It can send a believer home prematurely.

As I understand it, the term "spirit of the law" is not a biblical term. It is in common usage and has meaning, but not found in the Bible.
When I do a search for the exact phrase I get zero results.

So, if it isn't biblical, maybe what people typically say about it isn't biblical either.
It seems like an attempt to keep us under the law.

Many claim that the new covenant means that the same law that was written on stone is now written on our hearts.
What is new about that? A covenant is an agreement. Writing an old agreement on a new material does not make it a new agreement.

Hebrews 8:7, 13
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[Sketch]

let's get to the point- do you think a Christ follower has to keep the Law of Moses to be saved or maintain salvation?

In a word, no.
No, I do not think "a Christ follower has to keep the Law of Moses to be saved or maintain salvation". (to borrow your words)

But we might need to define what you mean when you say "the Law of Moses ".

When I write about "the law", this is what I mean to say, how I define it.
The term "the law" (small "l") is the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses.
This law is written in the books of the Law (capital "L") the Pentateuch. Also called "the Law" (capital "L").

Some people claim that the "Law of Moses" was Moses law and not the law that God gave through him.
Thus my caution when I see the term.

Here is a scriptural example of the terms "the law" (small "l") and the Law (capital "L") being used both ways.
See the difference? Sorry to drag you through this if you already knew it.
Hopefully there are other readers that will find it informative.

Romans 3:21
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

 

[Sketch]

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The Lord said He came to fulfill the Law. Are you trying to imply that He failed?

If that is the case then you are under every jot and every tittle of the law.

There can be no curse lifted from the Law UNLESS it has been fulfilled.


The Christian Rest is coming to Christ and being GIVEN Grace and being Delivered from the Law and its curse. Right Now.

After his resurrection Jesus explained what he was saying in Matt.5:17. It was the prophecies about him in the books of the Law that he was fulfilling, not the law itself. I know that sounds like double talk, but here are his words to clarify.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Compare.

Deuteronomy 18:15
The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”

 

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Jesus followed the law.
Christians follow Jesus.
how hard is that to get?

I hear the claim that Jesus followed the law all the time.
What I have yet to hear is the biblical proof this claim is based on.

Jesus got himself in trouble with the religious leaders over the law.
Was it because he was following the law, or not following the law?

And in reference to following Jesus example, you should try this on Saturday.
Go to the nearest Jewish synagogue, take the platform and present Jesus as the Messiah.
If they don't toss you out, spend the rest of your time there casting out demons and heaoing the sick.

Then you will truly be a "follower" of Christ's example.
If that sounds ridiculous, consider out To Do list from Jesus.

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

[Sketch]

Just a side note, Jesus also fulfilled all that the prophets had spoken about the Messiah.

A side note?
I think that is the key to understanding Matt.5:17

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

 

[mailmandan]

Hey! mailmandan... PTL!
Why does it have to be all or none, now? Could not Jesus have fulfilled some prophecy during his first advent and then complete fulfilling it all when he returns again to rule from upon King David's throne as was also prophesied?
Maranatha!

I was talking about the the laws of Moses and not every prophecy. We are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[gb9]

In a word, no.
No, I do not think "a Christ follower has to keep the Law of Moses to be saved or maintain salvation". (to borrow your words)

But we might need to define what you mean when you say "the Law of Moses ".

When I write about "the law", this is what I mean to say, how I define it.
The term "the law" (small "l") is the law that God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses.
This law is written in the books of the Law (capital "L") the Pentateuch. Also called "the Law" (capital "L").

Some people claim that the "Law of Moses" was Moses law and not the law that God gave through him.
Thus my caution when I see the term.

Here is a scriptural example of the terms "the law" (small "l") and the Law (capital "L") being used both ways.
See the difference? Sorry to drag you through this if you already knew it.
Hopefully there are other readers that will find it informative.

Romans 3:21
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

well. since Jesus said Himself that " the Law came through Moses ", so, I will go with what he says.

 

[Sketch]

The Law is NOT the Holy Spirit.

Good point. I agree with that.

Some claim we are not to keep the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law.
There is no "spirit of the law" biblically speaking. The comparision is between the letter and the Spirit.
The law is not the Spirit.

 

[Sketch]

well. since Jesus said Himself that " the Law came through Moses ", so, I will go with what he says.

That sounds like more of an agreement than a disagreement.
On what point do we differ? (the NIV uses a small "l")

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

 

[gb9]

That sounds like more of an agreement than a disagreement.
On what point do we differ? (the NIV uses a small "l")

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

there is no such thing as different laws. this is a s.d.a., Hebrew roots, Judeaizing tactic to push keeping the Law for salvation.

we are saved by belief in Christ. not by command/ law keeping.

 

[Sketch]

Here are some good example of the term "the Law" being used to refer to the Books of the Law.

John 1:45
Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

Acts 13:15
After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

 

[Sketch]

there is no such thing as different laws. this is a s.d.a., Hebrew roots, Judeaizing tactic to push keeping the Law for salvation.

we are saved by belief in Christ. not by command/ law keeping.

That's not what I am talking about. Again we are in agreement even though you seem to think we are not.
I am saying that the term "the law" (or the Law) can also mean the Books of the Law.
Therefore not a reference to the law itself. For instance... Matt.5:17 is talking about the books, not the law itself.
Jesus did not come to abolish the books of the Law or the books of the Prophets, but to fulfill them.

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

John 1:45
Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

Acts 13:15
After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the leaders of the synagogue sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a word of exhortation for the people, please speak.”

 

[Sketch]

there is no such thing as different laws.

I agree, "the law" is a singular thing. You are either under it, or you are not under it.
We are under grace, not under law. Can we agree on that?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Before... until... until... Now...

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

The law was put aside at the Death of Christ.

Remember,All the law and the prophets are summed up In one word,love.So then JESUS never broke the law when he healed when the law was Interpreted Incorrectly by the pharisees.

People that have not been born again will be judged by the law but for the spirits of just men made perfect they are not under law because they were given the faith of JESUS and have Inherited Eternal Life.

Under law no man could be made perfect In his own strength and would be brought Into captivity to the law of sin which was In there flesh but JESUS the messiah,GOD In CHRIST fulfilled the law being RIGHTEOUS because the law Is HIS standard BUT for men who BROKE the law JESUS gave them rest and gave himself up FOR us and died on a cross In order to satisfy the demand of the law that meant death and took the power that adam handed over to satin back as the son of man RIGHTEOUSLY and gave grace to whosoever will believe In the WORD of GOD that was manifested In flesh.

So the Issue now Is faith not sin.