Cut off her hand...

[Scrobulous]

In Deuteronomy 25 we have the following:
11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

When reading the OT law, it is important to realise that although, by our standards, the events are pretty barbaric, we are dealing with divine judgment and being educated to understand the deadliness of sin and God’s attitude towards it. Genocide is a last resort and the means by which God judges the nations of the middle east. There are indications, Gen 15:16 that God waits generations before judging in this way. We are, in fact, instructed to love the law and to dwell on it night and day Ps 1:2.
It seems to me that the law is an imperfect means of structuring a society along godly lines, but in spite of all this, the above command strikes me as utterly disgusting.
I am appalled too, at commands to stone animals, like bulls who gore people to death. Stoning is a means of killing so painful, slow and disgusting, that surely no merciful God could condone it. Why the cruelty?
I have to say such things really upset my faith.
Does anyone have a view on this?

 

[trofimus]

Verses like this in the OT make me think if they are inspired by God or just allowed by Moses (like divorce, as Jesus said).

I would guess the second.

 

[Scrobulous]

Verses like this in the OT make me think if they are inspired by God or just allowed by Moses (like divorce, as Jesus said).

I would guess the second.

Good answer!
Jesus said the law allowed divorce because if the hardness of the people’s hearts. So your answer is of some comfort to me.
But Moses was in close touch with God. I would have hoped that God would curb the wilder excesses of the people. God is responsible for the bible after all. I am also hoping that God opposes cruelty and has regard for animals. I love animals. The sacrificial system, to me, has such power, because it demands the lives of innocent animals. These poor things are killed because of sin. This is what makes sin so heinous.
And going back to the hand, surely this is a terrible commandment. If you think about it, in a time of no anaesthetics, to cut off a poor woman’s hand for so trivial an offence. I cannot get my head around it.

 

[PennEd]

I believe the "apparent" cruelty of God in these matters, as well the Flood, and the Multiple decrees to slaughter EVERY man, woman, child, and infant, and in some cases animals, of certain people groups, makes no sense, and can actually trip up Christians, UNLESS we view them in light of Genesis 6.

In Genesis 6 we see fallen angels mating with human women creating a hybrid race of people. In extra-Biblical texts, that ARE mentioned in the Bible, we see that animals ALSO were "mixed" creating unnatural hybrid animals.

The DNA of these abominations continued in some of these people groups. Thus God ensured that this particular sin, carried forth by DNA, was not mixed with the people that would bring forth the Messiah.

God took incredible seriousness ANY attempt to either destroy, like in the case of the woman grabbing the man's genitals, or CORRUPT the seed by which His Son would come.

 

[preacher4truth]

I like this and ponder it's truth:

"This is the problem with the church...we don't know who God is...and we don't know who we are."

 

[trofimus]

And going back to the hand, surely this is a terrible commandment. If you think about it, in a time of no anaesthetics, to cut off a poor woman’s hand for so trivial an offence. I cannot get my head around it.

I think this was so called "preventive" commandment. No woman would do such thing after knowing such punishment. So I doubt this law was ever applied.

Its obvious that ancient society was centered around men and their sons, women were not so important. This commandment is fitting to this cultural views and therefore I think God only allowed angry men to have this commandment, it was not His direct inspiration.

 

[trofimus]

I believe the "apparent" cruelty of God in these matters, as well the Flood, and the Multiple decrees to slaughter EVERY man, woman, child, and infant, and in some cases animals, of certain people groups, makes no sense, and can actually trip up Christians, UNLESS we view them in light of Genesis 6.

In Genesis 6 we see fallen angels mating with human women creating a hybrid race of people. In extra-Biblical texts, that ARE mentioned in the Bible, we see that animals ALSO were "mixed" creating unnatural hybrid animals.

The DNA of these abominations continued in some of these people groups. Thus God ensured that this particular sin, carried forth by DNA, was not mixed with the people that would bring forth the Messiah.

God took incredible seriousness ANY attempt to either destroy, like in the case of the woman grabbing the man's genitals, or CORRUPT the seed by which His Son would come.

I also think that the nations of Palestine genocided by Israelites had some special connection to fallen angels, so called gods and to their offspring - demons. Even Egypt was left more or less unharmed, the main imaginary of God´s enemy. But these nations were wiped out. There had to be a reason for this.

On the other hand I am not aware of any NT citations of these events, so there is still a possibility that it is not authentic.

 

[Ariel82]

If the bull gores people then stoning may be the only safe way to kill it. They didn't have guns back then and getting close with a spear may just enrage it.

As for the above verse....the woman is grabbing the other guys private parts, I find that disturbing.

Jesus didn't let people to stone an adultress to death, I doubt he would condone having a woman's hand cut off.

 

[dcontroversal]

In Deuteronomy 25 we have the following:
11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

When reading the OT law, it is important to realise that although, by our standards, the events are pretty barbaric, we are dealing with divine judgment and being educated to understand the deadliness of sin and God’s attitude towards it. Genocide is a last resort and the means by which God judges the nations of the middle east. There are indications, Gen 15:16 that God waits generations before judging in this way. We are, in fact, instructed to love the law and to dwell on it night and day Ps 1:2.
It seems to me that the law is an imperfect means of structuring a society along godly lines, but in spite of all this, the above command strikes me as utterly disgusting.
I am appalled too, at commands to stone animals, like bulls who gore people to death. Stoning is a means of killing so painful, slow and disgusting, that surely no merciful God could condone it. Why the cruelty?
I have to say such things really upset my faith.
Does anyone have a view on this?

My ways are so much higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts--->Isaiah

Take for example your sited reference to genocide.....God commanded Joshua to kill everyone (men, women and CHILDREN) in Jericho.....and other cities.....we might look at that and be highly offended or think that this was and is barbaric....but in essence it shows great MERCY and love towards the Children....You might think that last statement = me out of my mind....

Why would I think the above......simple....Had the children grown up with the backgrounds of complete Idolatry that they had been ingrained with, they obviously would have been lost forever.....it is obvious that the bible teaches some sort of "safe under the blood" for children that have not reached the age where they are aware of sin and placed under the condemnation of God "David and his first born with Bathsheba" that died.....God, by instructing Joshua to kill even the children accomplished numerous things....

a. In all probability spared some from hell
b. In all probability spared Israel from revenge at a later time
c. In all probability kept idolatry from corrupting the truth at a time when it needed to flourish in the land
d. Etc.

The truth is...there are numerous truths, events etc. in the bible that are hard for us to grasp the reasoning behind such things, yet at the end of the day....we cannot even begin to second guess God because we are not qualified to do such, nor do we have that right...........

 

[Noose]

The law in it's entirety was a prophesy of what is to happen spiritually to God's people in the end times.

Physical annihilation of nations that surrounded Israel represent spiritual annihilation of spiritual gentiles (ungodly people).

Physical punishment dished to unruly Israelites represent spiritual chastisement which eventually results to death given to those that believe in God but are also deceived by satan.

At the end of the day, physical is nothing compared to spiritual because all those men annihilated in the OT were saved by Christ. It is only the people in the end times with real choice and real consequences, the others were just educational toys.

 

[Miri]

In Deuteronomy 25 we have the following:
11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

When reading the OT law, it is important to realise that although, by our standards, the events are pretty barbaric, we are dealing with divine judgment and being educated to understand the deadliness of sin and God’s attitude towards it. Genocide is a last resort and the means by which God judges the nations of the middle east. There are indications, Gen 15:16 that God waits generations before judging in this way. We are, in fact, instructed to love the law and to dwell on it night and day Ps 1:2.
It seems to me that the law is an imperfect means of structuring a society along godly lines, but in spite of all this, the above command strikes me as utterly disgusting.
I am appalled too, at commands to stone animals, like bulls who gore people to death. Stoning is a means of killing so painful, slow and disgusting, that surely no merciful God could condone it. Why the cruelty?
I have to say such things really upset my faith.
Does anyone have a view on this?

I don’t know for certain but I suspect it has to do with the seal of God and circumcision.
God’s people were circumcised to show they were God’s special chosen people.
Maybe somehow in grabbing a damaging a man in such a way, it was also like sticking
two fingers up at God and defiling the blessing of God.

That blessing also included that God’s people would multiply and be like the stars in
the sky. (God’s promise to Abraham) so maybe again, it was also a way of trashing
God’s blessing if damage was caused to hinder the linage. Although Pharaohs and
Herods method of destroying children would also have impacted on that too.

 

[Scrobulous]

My ways are so much higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts--->Isaiah

Take for example your sited reference to genocide.....God commanded Joshua to kill everyone (men, women and CHILDREN) in Jericho.....and other cities.....we might look at that and be highly offended or think that this was and is barbaric....but in essence it shows great MERCY and love towards the Children....You might think that last statement = me out of my mind....

Why would I think the above......simple....Had the children grown up with the backgrounds of complete Idolatry that they had been ingrained with, they obviously would have been lost forever.....it is obvious that the bible teaches some sort of "safe under the blood" for children that have not reached the age where they are aware of sin and placed under the condemnation of God "David and his first born with Bathsheba" that died.....God, by instructing Joshua to kill even the children accomplished numerous things....

a. In all probability spared some from hell
b. In all probability spared Israel from revenge at a later time
c. In all probability kept idolatry from corrupting the truth at a time when it needed to flourish in the land
d. Etc.

The truth is...there are numerous truths, events etc. in the bible that are hard for us to grasp the reasoning behind such things, yet at the end of the day....we cannot even begin to second guess God because we are not qualified to do such, nor do we have that right...........

Thanks for your post i fully get where you are coming from. In my post I am asking about cuting off a woman’s hand and stoning cattle. These are very difficult to explain.
But I am still thinking about the other comments, which have been helpful!

 

[Scrobulous]

If the bull gores people then stoning may be the only safe way to kill it. They didn't have guns back then and getting close with a spear may just enrage it.

As for the above verse....the woman is grabbing the other guys private parts, I find that disturbing.

Jesus didn't let people to stone an adultress to death, I doubt he would condone having a woman's hand cut off.

This would make sense, were it not for the fact that the israelites were operating the sacrificial system. They were experts in slaughtering animals. Stoning them is cruelty plain and simple. I cannot understand why God would allow such a thing. An animal is not sinful. It is innocent.

As for a woman grabbing the private parts, a very effective way of getting one man to release another. Anything else risks hurting him very badly.

I agree, Jesus wouldn’t have allowed a woman to be tirtured in this way, so why allow such a command in the law. Jesus said he upholds and fulfills the law.

 

[Scrobulous]

The law in it's entirety was a prophesy of what is to happen spiritually to God's people in the end times.

Physical annihilation of nations that surrounded Israel represent spiritual annihilation of spiritual gentiles (ungodly people).

Physical punishment dished to unruly Israelites represent spiritual chastisement which eventually results to death given to those that believe in God but are also deceived by satan.

At the end of the day, physical is nothing compared to spiritual because all those men annihilated in the OT were saved by Christ. It is only the people in the end times with real choice and real consequences, the others were just educational toys.

Very interesting comment. Thanks.

 

[CharliRenee]

Good answer!
Jesus said the law allowed divorce because if the hardness of the people’s hearts. So your answer is of some comfort to me.
But Moses was in close touch with God. I would have hoped that God would curb the wilder excesses of the people. God is responsible for the bible after all. I am also hoping that God opposes cruelty and has regard for animals. I love animals. The sacrificial system, to me, has such power, because it demands the lives of innocent animals. These poor things are killed because of sin. This is what makes sin so heinous.
And going back to the hand, surely this is a terrible commandment. If you think about it, in a time of no anaesthetics, to cut off a poor woman’s hand for so trivial an offence. I cannot get my head around it.

I think and I could be wrong but that when we think on the heart of God with regards to animal sacrifice, we should remember that He Himself knows the loss. He is asking when a person sins, which leads to death, which is the significance of the showing that in the sacrifice, but also, He sacrifices that life too life, because all life is His. He loves all His creation, and I think He tried to get ppl to get the significance of how important not sinning is. He was helping us individually and as a people. It was also necessary to point to sacrifice to show His Son and the value of His sacrifice, giving of Himself to death. Still, I believe that there is never any indifference in our God with regards to the loss of any life. I think He values the lives of animals.

 

[Scrobulous]

I think and I could be wrong but that when we think on the heart of God with regards to animal sacrifice, we should remember that He Himself knows the loss. He is asking when a person sins, which leads to death, which is the significance of the showing that in the sacrifice, but also, He sacrifices that life too life, because all life is His. He loves all His creation, and I think He tried to get ppl to get the significance of how important not sinning is. He was helping us individually and as a people. It was also necessary to point to sacrifice to show His Son and the value of His sacrifice, giving of Himself to death. Still, I believe that there is never any indifference in our God with regards to the loss of any life. I think He values the lives of animals.

I agree, which is why I find it so hard to understand why God would allow such commands into his law. It would be different if God himself had a slightly more casual attitude to the law, along the lines, look this is a guide, guys, kind of rule of thumb, so feel free to interpret it loosely! But this is not God’s attitude. The law was treated as the very words of God and the scribes ensured that not a single letter or dot was missed. So, the command to cut off a hand was binding, so was stoning animals. It is, frankly, shocking.

 

[luigi]

To grab the man by his private parts may indicate the woman being fully aware of her incapacitating the man, thereby giving her husband the advantage over his adversary. Unfair to say the least.

 

[Adstar]

In Deuteronomy 25 we have the following:
11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

When reading the OT law, it is important to realise that although, by our standards, the events are pretty barbaric, we are dealing with divine judgment and being educated to understand the deadliness of sin and God’s attitude towards it. Genocide is a last resort and the means by which God judges the nations of the middle east. There are indications, Gen 15:16 that God waits generations before judging in this way. We are, in fact, instructed to love the law and to dwell on it night and day Ps 1:2.
It seems to me that the law is an imperfect means of structuring a society along godly lines, but in spite of all this, the above command strikes me as utterly disgusting.
I am appalled too, at commands to stone animals, like bulls who gore people to death. Stoning is a means of killing so painful, slow and disgusting, that surely no merciful God could condone it. Why the cruelty?
I have to say such things really upset my faith.
Does anyone have a view on this?

God is going to cast unforgiving sinners into the eternal Lake of Fire where they will be tormented Day and Night forever and ever..

It seems to me that some people don't understand how Perfect God is and how evil their sins are.. Cut of her hand... Why would a Perfect God not cast her into the eternal lake of fire the moment she committed the offense? Surly one sin, just one sin is enough for a Perfect God to be justified in doing so... Why didn't God destroy both Adam and Eve the moment they gained the knowledge of good and evil?

He is long suffering towards us.. That's why..

 

[fizzyjoe]

In Deuteronomy 25 we have the following:
11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

When reading the OT law, it is important to realise that although, by our standards, the events are pretty barbaric, we are dealing with divine judgment and being educated to understand the deadliness of sin and God’s attitude towards it. Genocide is a last resort and the means by which God judges the nations of the middle east. There are indications, Gen 15:16 that God waits generations before judging in this way. We are, in fact, instructed to love the law and to dwell on it night and day Ps 1:2.
It seems to me that the law is an imperfect means of structuring a society along godly lines, but in spite of all this, the above command strikes me as utterly disgusting.
I am appalled too, at commands to stone animals, like bulls who gore people to death. Stoning is a means of killing so painful, slow and disgusting, that surely no merciful God could condone it. Why the cruelty?
I have to say such things really upset my faith.
Does anyone have a view on this?

Well it "sounds harsh" but, one must grasp the "severity" of the situation, her husband is being smote and she interjects between the two men by reaching out for the man's "vulnerable region" whether she is seeking to hurt that man or stop him by offering sexual pleasure, she has either way betrayed the sanctity of her marriage and sought "underhanded" means to help her husband, in those days God was focused on Israel not seeking "chaos" for "peace" nor idols/false Gods for comfort, he is a Jealous God and the author of "peace" not "confusion".

 

[fizzyjoe]

To grab the man by his private parts may indicate the woman being fully aware of her incapacitating the man, thereby giving her husband the advantage over his adversary. Unfair to say the least.

A valid point.