Does saved by grace, not under law cancel the 119th Psalm?
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2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
The law in the OT is not cancelled by Christ. It is fulfilled by Christ. Only those who come to Christ and abide in His Grace are no longer under the law.
Those who desire to be under the law instead of under Christ still have the vail upon their heart and their minds are blinded. Those who think that being under the law IS being under Christ are especially blinded.
Galatians 4:21-26
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Its pretty much impossible to show someone with scripture that being under Christ is better than being under Law when their minds are blinded to the Truth. Its all right there in plain, simple English.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
This is scripture. If you are a Christian its in your bible. Be a Christian. Don't go back to the Old Jewish way that is the yoke of bondage.
You want to be pleasing to God? You want to be clean and Righteous before God? You can only do that by faith in Christ. No other way.
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
The law in the OT is not cancelled by Christ. It is fulfilled by Christ. Only those who come to Christ and abide in His Grace are no longer under the law.
Those who desire to be under the law instead of under Christ still have the vail upon their heart and their minds are blinded. Those who think that being under the law IS being under Christ are especially blinded.
Galatians 4:21-26
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Its pretty much impossible to show someone with scripture that being under Christ is better than being under Law when their minds are blinded to the Truth. Its all right there in plain, simple English.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
This is scripture. If you are a Christian its in your bible. Be a Christian. Don't go back to the Old Jewish way that is the yoke of bondage.
You want to be pleasing to God? You want to be clean and Righteous before God? You can only do that by faith in Christ. No other way.
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E
Amen
I think the issue is, and I think psalms 119 was trying to show us this, That letters of laws tell us point blank do this or that, Don’t do this or not.
Understanding the law is understanding WHY those commands are given and HOW they can be obeyed.
Example is the law says obey your parents.
If a person is obeying JUST because the law says, or because they are trying to get somethign in return are they really obeying the law as it was given?
I pray God not only show me his law (word) but show help me understand everything about it. In all areas.
The jews followed moral law by the letter, but did not understand the spirit. Thats why they failed. Because the moral law was given as a guide, it does not tell us HOW or WHY. So we can obey the letter, but break the spirit (Jesus used the sermon on the mount to show this)
I think When we try to take the law out of context. or use it as a meansss to make ourselves righteous.. we have failed to grasp the law as it was intended.
I think the issue is, and I think psalms 119 was trying to show us this, That letters of laws tell us point blank do this or that, Don’t do this or not.
Understanding the law is understanding WHY those commands are given and HOW they can be obeyed.
Example is the law says obey your parents.
If a person is obeying JUST because the law says, or because they are trying to get somethign in return are they really obeying the law as it was given?
I pray God not only show me his law (word) but show help me understand everything about it. In all areas.
The jews followed moral law by the letter, but did not understand the spirit. Thats why they failed. Because the moral law was given as a guide, it does not tell us HOW or WHY. So we can obey the letter, but break the spirit (Jesus used the sermon on the mount to show this)
I think When we try to take the law out of context. or use it as a meansss to make ourselves righteous.. we have failed to grasp the law as it was intended.
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2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
So how do we differentiate between the Law of Moses and the Law of the Lord?
I keep asking you because there are so many that think they can separate the Law of Moses into sections and follow their favorite parts calling it by a different name.
So how do we differentiate between the Law of Moses and the Law of the Lord?
I keep asking you because there are so many that think they can separate the Law of Moses into sections and follow their favorite parts calling it by a different name.
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If the eternal has no beginning of existence then it cannot change in either nature or form since its nature and form are eternal. Therefore if any man says that is he is the eternal God, having changed in nature and form then we know that man is not the eternal God because the eternal does not change in nature or form.
If the Gospel be hid it is hid to them who are lost. To say it doesn't logically follow that the eternal does not change in either nature of form is to say that every living thing is eternal.
So are you claiming that all living things are eternal?
If the Gospel be hid it is hid to them who are lost. To say it doesn't logically follow that the eternal does not change in either nature of form is to say that every living thing is eternal.
So are you claiming that all living things are eternal?
Since it is written that the LORD only hath immortality,
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Tim 6:16
being the only begotten of the eternal God, then how could the law of truth be eternal if the laws of nature only came into existence when the universe was created.
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Tim 6:16
being the only begotten of the eternal God, then how could the law of truth be eternal if the laws of nature only came into existence when the universe was created.
[/QUOTE]
The New Covenant, Grace is not eternal. It will come to an end when the Eastern Sky splits, and Christ returns for His Church.......it will be FULFILLED, and thus ended........Eternity with Christ, or without Christi is what is ETERNAL.
God IS............ And, I said God never changes, but that does not mean the Covenants will never change..........If you want Scripture, just read the Epistles of Paul............
God did not break His Covenant with the Jews, THEY broke the Covenant when they REJECTED Christ........
Paul spells all of this out...........just do some reading.
The New Covenant, Grace is not eternal. It will come to an end when the Eastern Sky splits, and Christ returns for His Church.......it will be FULFILLED, and thus ended........Eternity with Christ, or without Christi is what is ETERNAL.
God IS............ And, I said God never changes, but that does not mean the Covenants will never change..........If you want Scripture, just read the Epistles of Paul............
God did not break His Covenant with the Jews, THEY broke the Covenant when they REJECTED Christ........
Paul spells all of this out...........just do some reading.
What doesn't logically follow is saying (as you did) that if God can change in either nature or form, He cannot be eternal. We do not understand, nor can our finite minds grasp, infinity or eternality well enough to be able to define them to the extent that we can say: if something is eternal it cannot ______. <~ Insert just about any word there In other words, you have just put a limitation on God. Aside from all that, no, I do not believe every living thing is eternal. I am one of the few here who does not believe that
In other words, you have just put a limitation on God. Aside from all that, no, I do not believe every living thing is eternal. I am one of the few here who does not believe that -
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(@Zmouth)
Did God not change in form when He was born of a virgin?
Scripture says God does not change. Holding that truth alongside Jesus becoming a man may challenge some, but Jesus was purposed from before the foundation of the world. God, a Spirit, became clothed in flesh. Entering time to live as a human being, God changed form. Scripture also says God is not a man. (Numbers 23:19 19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?) Does that mean Jesus is not God? I realize some do not accept the Deity of Jesus Christ, but I do I affirm that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, as per John 1:1-14
Did God not change in form when He was born of a virgin?
Scripture says God does not change. Holding that truth alongside Jesus becoming a man may challenge some, but Jesus was purposed from before the foundation of the world. God, a Spirit, became clothed in flesh. Entering time to live as a human being, God changed form. Scripture also says God is not a man. (Numbers 23:19 19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?) Does that mean Jesus is not God? I realize some do not accept the Deity of Jesus Christ, but I do
I affirm that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, as per John 1:1-14
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Prove it.
What do you make of this?
John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 9:16
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.
What do you make of this?
John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 9:16
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.” But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.
Jesus told the Pharisees (and demonstrated in other ways) that their understanding of the law was faulty on quite a few points, including what was and what was not permissible to do on the Sabbath. That they sought to kill Him for breaking the Sabbath law as they understood it does not equate to Jesus breaking the Sabbath God instituted.
Do you really wish to say that Jesus broke the law? You gut the gospel if you do so, for it would make Him a sinner and an unacceptable sacrifice as the Lamb of God to pay the sin debt of humanity.
Do you really wish to say that Jesus broke the law? You gut the gospel if you do so, for it would make Him a sinner and an unacceptable sacrifice as the Lamb of God to pay the sin debt of humanity.
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Thanks for your reply.
This is an interesting subjrect to discuss. There are some very challenging dynamics involved.
My understanding is that Jesus came to set the law aside. When and how this happened is most curious.
Jesus made a full time job out of challenging not only the religious leaders, but the law itself.
If we can agree that Jesus set the law aside, then the next question is when and how.
Let's start by settling the first question. I have bolded the three critical words in this scripture.
Before, until, and now. This indicates a timeline for the change. A before and an after.
Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
This is an interesting subjrect to discuss. There are some very challenging dynamics involved.
My understanding is that Jesus came to set the law aside. When and how this happened is most curious.
Jesus made a full time job out of challenging not only the religious leaders, but the law itself.
If we can agree that Jesus set the law aside, then the next question is when and how.
Let's start by settling the first question. I have bolded the three critical words in this scripture.
Before, until, and now. This indicates a timeline for the change. A before and an after.
Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
The earth as God created it was 4,000 years old when Jesus was given to us, and God made His plan for our salvation as soon as Eve ate the apple and sin entered the world. All the people did not die eternally for those 4,000 years, but they were saved through innocent blood. Jesus was from the beginning. We are told in Matthew that the saints, including Moses, was alive after the cross. The Father gives us salvation through the blood of Jesus. Always has.