Does saved by grace, not under law cancel the 119th Psalm?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#1
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#1
The scripture I read tells me I am saved by grace, and a saved person listens to the spirit of the law. When I search for what that is I find that it is the law of Moses obeyed through love, not in a mechanical way. I believe God gave the 119th Psalm and it is the truth, just as saved by grace is the truth. They say one cancels the other.

Do you believe they are both truth? Can we be "not under law" and believe the 119th Psalm?
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
#2
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
7,177
113
#2
Great post, I think a thought we all have pondered.

I would say...

First of all that the key word is Blessed, in Psalms 119. Personally, though, when we find contradictions and things that seem to refute or disregard the truth of another scripture, I think we have to know these truths first.

He is constant.
His truth is too, and never changes
He doesn't lie
He is a God of order.

In my humble opinion, If we find disharmony in the scriptures, the fault is not in the inspired word of God but in our own understandings and interpretations.

I think we need all the laws, that they, His laws, His will, falls in line with the natural laws, the way we were designed. I think that they make sense, and with Him and His blood atonement, we are forgiven, empowered, motivated,and MORE able to come into agreement in all ways. I think our natural inclinations reside still, but He has given us a new spirit and a new softened heart. The heart of His, is a heart that loves Him so much and others deeply as well. I think that hearts condition makes Psalms 119 possible. His grace makes all things possible. When we fall short, and we will (hopefully less and less, though), we have His Purity, His Holiness, His Advocacy with which we can rely.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#3
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#3
Seeing as there are 176 verses in this chapter which verse(s) are you quibbling over?
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#4
Dec 9, 2011
14,142
1,806
113
#4
Blik said:
The scripture I read tells me I am saved by grace, and a saved person listens to the spirit of the law. When I search for what that is I find that it is the law of Moses obeyed through love, not in a mechanical way. I believe God gave the 119th Psalm and it is the truth, just as saved by grace is the truth. They say one cancels the other.

Do you believe they are both truth? Can we be "not under law" and believe the 119th Psalm?
Click to expand...
JESUS Is the vine and we are the branches receiving sustenance from the vine and displaying spiritual fruit establishing the law.
 
G

glf1

Active member
#6
Jun 10, 2018
314
124
43
#6
Hey! Blik... PTL!
Gal 5:4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace."

Gal 3:2-5 "This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing with faith? Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? If it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Rom 8: 2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."

Gal 3: 23-25 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith that should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after than faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

If in the New Covenant, the Lord writes his laws and commandments upon the tables of our hearts and minds, making us to see sin more and more as Jesus does; Then our consciences become the instrument that shows us what is good and evil to do or not to do. For the hardest sins to quit, the Holy Spirit will even use our own guilt as a tool to set us free by making the knowledge of how miserable with guilt we'll feel, will be what strengthens us to finally say no to it.

1 Jn 3: 21, 22 "Beloved, if our heart condemns us not, then we have confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do those things that are pleasing in his sight."

Heb 9: 9 "Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience."
Heb 10:1-2 "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered, because that the worshipers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins."

Heb 9: 14 "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God."
Heb 10: 22 "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water."

So scripture written upon the tables of our hearts and minds renew our consciences to see sin as the Lord does, more and more. Then the blood of Jesus purges our consciences from dead works to serve the Lord; so that our hearts will no longer condemn us and we are able to go before the Lord in prayer with a clear conscience. Able to even forgive our own selves and sleep the sleep of the innocent.
Maranatha!
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#7
Sep 4, 2013
30,747
6,913
113
#7
I don't understand why some can not come to an understanding that while God NEVER changes, that does not mean other things NEVER change. The Law was given UNDER the First Covenant.......that waxed old and was REPLACED by the New Covenant.

Does that mean the Law is not around anymore? NO. What it means is:

Those who believe in and confess Jesus as Lord and Savoir are under the New Covenant, Grace......NOT the Law.

Those who STILL CHOOSE to live under the Law, WILL BE judged by the Law, and we ALL know what Scripture says about that, right?

Under the New Covenant, Grace, Jesus established the "Law of Faith." The Apostle Paul goes to great lengths in his Epistles to reveal this, and explain this to the churches he planted.

I simply do not see how this can ALWAYS be something to debater/discuss/argue about.........goodness
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
#8
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
7,177
113
#8
I just think moral law, and the way we were created and designed, natural law, make sense. They may not save us if we strive to earn our salvation but they can bless us in our personal relationship with regards to our communion with the spirit. I think we are saved by grace, 100%, not by works. I think we best believe in Him, though, with all our HEARTS, and that belief means make sure we love, in action, words, and thought, Him and others, as we are called to. If we do, we will fulfill the law. So it is a win win situation, if we truly (rootedly) believe. The good news is His work is our faith, wow, that is empowering and comforting. We can rest, in Him...He has us.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#9
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#9
I don't see any problem in accepting all God tells us as truth.

As parents we don't tell our children to obey the laws we give them in order for us to accept them. God doesn't tell us to obey laws in order to be accepted by Him but only accept we are His. God created us so all we need do is acknowledge that. God gives us law in the same way we give our children laws to live by.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#10
Dec 9, 2011
14,142
1,806
113
#10
The law was about the children of Israel purifying the flesh which Is a good and true thing but JESUS magnified the law all the way to the spirit of a man which Is THE TRUTH.
GOD looks at the heart.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#12
Jul 24, 2016
7,600
3,624
113
#12
Blik said:
The scripture I read tells me I am saved by grace, and a saved person listens to the spirit of the law. When I search for what that is I find that it is the law of Moses obeyed through love, not in a mechanical way. I believe God gave the 119th Psalm and it is the truth, just as saved by grace is the truth. They say one cancels the other.

Do you believe they are both truth? Can we be "not under law" and believe the 119th Psalm?
Click to expand...
Jesus did not remove the Law..

Jesus removed the curse that was attached to the Law..

Galatians 3: KJV
13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"


It has not become ok for people to commit adultery or to kill or to steal or to covert the goods of ones neighbor..

Have a read of the curses that are attached to the law:: ( for those who seek to be justified by their law doing)

Deuteronomy 28: KJV
58 "If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD; {59} Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. {60} Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee. {61} Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. {62} And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God. {63} And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. {64} And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. {65} And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: {66} And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life: {67} In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. {68} And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you."

The curse of the Law is a death curse upon all who fail to do all the Law.. Fail the law once and your doomed if you believe that salvation is attained by Law doing.. All those who seek to be justified by their law doing are cursed to death..
 
Zmouth

Zmouth

Senior Member
#13
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#13
p_rehbein said:
I don't understand why some can not come to an understanding that while God NEVER changes, that does not mean other things NEVER change. The Law was given UNDER the First Covenant.......that waxed old and was REPLACED by the New Covenant.
Click to expand...
If a God changes in either nature or form then we know one thing, that God is not eternal. And if not eternal, it could not be the one true eternal God.

Thus, if the first covenant was not eternal then neither would be a second covenant, for if the first covenant waxed old then the second covenant was dead before it was written seeing that anything which is not eternal will not always exist, since the eternal having alway existed, does not change, and therefore will always exist.

So it doesn't surprise me this fact infuriates some religious people since it is written that men loved lies more than the truth. Of course I could be wrong so if you can identify anything in this universe which has always existed then I would be more than interested in your correction of my understanding the scriptures.[/QUOTE]
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#14
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
113
71
Illinois
#14
"Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways"
(Psalms 119:1-3).

Even a casual reading of Psalm 119 shows that it is not addressing the Ten Commandments, but David's love for the Word of God. David is saying that he could not be what God would have him to be without his Bible (or scrolls, if you prefer).

A summary of the chapter connects each of these qualities with the Bible's ability to bestow them upon the faithful reader--and follower of it's precepts.

1. Righteousness (verses 7, 62, 75, 106, 123, 138, 144, 160, 164, 172)
2. Trustworthiness (verse 42)
3. Truthfulness (verses 43, 142, 151, 160)
4. Faithfulness (verse 86)
5. Unchangeableness (verse 89)
6. Eternality (verses 90, 152)
7. Light (verse 105)
8. Purity (verse 140)
 
Sketch

Sketch

Well-known member
#15
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
#15
Blik said:
The scripture I read tells me I am saved by grace, and a saved person listens to the spirit of the law. When I search for what that is I find that it is the law of Moses obeyed through love, not in a mechanical way. I believe God gave the 119th Psalm and it is the truth, just as saved by grace is the truth. They say one cancels the other.

Do you believe they are both truth? Can we be "not under law" and believe the 119th Psalm?
Click to expand...
We should give some consideration to the definition of the term "the law". It means different things in the Bible.
Many do not know that Jesus explained what he meant in Matthew 5:17 after his resurrection. Compare these two scriptures.
Notice that the term "the Law" is in reference to the books of the Law (capital "L") not the law itself.
Which is defined as the law God gave to the Israelites through Moses. Which is CONTAINED in the books of the Law.
Jesus didn't come to fulfill the law (through obedience to it), he came to fulfill what was prophesied about him in the Law.

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#16
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#16
p_rehbein said:
I don't understand why some can not come to an understanding that while God NEVER changes, that does not mean other things NEVER change. The Law was given UNDER the First Covenant.......that waxed old and was REPLACED by the New Covenant.
Click to expand...
Go Alabama!

I also dont get that. God doesn't change is basically used to say things remain the same always. NOT TRUE

Even in the OT you can make contradictions if you dont rightly divide it.

God said, eat all animals to Noah, yet Moses was told NOT to eat certain animals. Contradiction? NO. Different covenant.

Its so simple.

I've seen those know nothing atheist websites also use that as a contradiction, its so disgusting we let them get away with it. If I were to critique evolution they instantly bring my lack of university degree into question, but when they critique scripture its no problem. I always ask them to tell me about soteriology, eschatology, tell me about the different dispensations, tell me about this and that, what is YOUR qualifications for critiquing the bible? And they got none.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#17
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#17
Psalm 119 is special....it is an Acrostic Psalm, each 8 verse set begins with a letter of the Hebrew alphabet and it accurately portrays a man coming to the truth and how he will mature and grow under the word of the Lord.....it is divided into 22 stanzas of 8 verses each...the name of God is listed 24 times.

The 119th Psalm does not name an author and tradition holds the possibility that Ezra wrote it, unlike David, which names himself as the author of the Psalms he wrote......

A very good study!!
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#18
#18
Blik said:
The scripture I read tells me I am saved by grace, and a saved person listens to the spirit of the law. When I search for what that is I find that it is the law of Moses obeyed through love, not in a mechanical way. I believe God gave the 119th Psalm and it is the truth, just as saved by grace is the truth. They say one cancels the other.

Do you believe they are both truth? Can we be "not under law" and believe the 119th Psalm?
Click to expand...

well like Paul says, ALL of scripture is God breathed

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. II Timothy 3: 15-17

we don't toss any scripture out the window. however, we now have but ONE High Priest and no more animal sacrifices

those who follow Christ also have a changed heart so that they desire to also obey Him

please consider reading Galatians and what Paul says in that letter regarding trying to follow with your flesh rather than following Christ by faith

as is said, ALL scripture is God breathed and while that may not have been part of the canon when Paul wrote the words, it certainly underscores what is written in the OT...so they agree
 
Zmouth

Zmouth

Senior Member
#19
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#19
Hevosmies said:
God said, eat all animals to Noah, yet Moses was told NOT to eat certain animals. Contradiction? NO. Different covenant.
Click to expand...
God didn't say eat all animals. If you believe that God destroyed the world by a flood, then of course " Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you;" (See Gen. 9:3) This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: (See Lev 11:47)

There is no contradiction because man doth not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#20
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#20
Zmouth said:
God didn't say eat all animals. If you believe that God destroyed the world by a flood, then of course " Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you;" (See Gen. 9:3) This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: (See Lev 11:47)

There is no contradiction because man doth not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Click to expand...
My goodness. What can I say
 
You must log in or register to reply here.