Pre-Trib Rapture and Premillennialism are False Doctrines

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

What about the fact that Paul writes all his epistles with a promise of PEACE from God, and our Lord Jesus Christ, or something to that effect.

Yet during the seals it says peace was TAKEN from the earth.

This is easily cleared up when we realize that peace is not always speaking of salvation. Paul tells us that we have both "peace with God," and the "peace of God." meaning that our strife, or 'enmity with God' has ended.

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Ephesians 2:15-16).

Ephesians shows us that peace is established when the enmity is gone.

As to Revelation . . .

"And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword" (Revelation 6:4).

In this case the word peace is used as opposed to war, which is going to be the norm during the seals. WAR.

Another example is the word saved. In many places it speaks of salvation from hell, but elsewhere it simply speaks of being delivered from a dangerous situation--rescued. One is eternal, the other is temporal.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I believe in this post that I can disprove the pre-trib rapture and premillennialism using only the Scriptures. Proverbs 18: 13 says that, “He who answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame to him.” So I ask you humbly, as a fellow servant in the kingdom of our Lord and Savior, please consider this post with an open heart and mind.


So Jesus and Paul only knew of two ages.

That is correct! The age that we are currently living in and the millennial period, which is described in Revelation 20:1-7 with the words "a thousand years" referred to six separate times and which follows Rev.19:11-21 which is a detailed account of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

End of the age = Christ's return to the earth to establish His thousand year reign, which is the "age to come."


I think by looking at some further Scriptures to see how this current age ends, we can rule out any possibility of a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth and therefore disprove premillennialism. Let us proceed and take a look at the next set of Scriptures.

Matthew 13: 47-50, “The kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

The above is in reference to the judgement of the sheep and the goats which will take place when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Those gathered will be those who will have made it alive through the entire wrath of God, with the sheep, (great tribulation saints), as those who will repopulate the earth during Christ's thousand year reign along with the remnant of Israel.

2 Peter 3: 10-13, “But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things are to be dissolved, what manner of person ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.”

In the scripture above, Peter is speaking in general terms, not sequentially. In other words, yes, the event of the Lord coming like a thief in the night will take place and at some point after the thousand year reign of Christ, then this current heaven and earth will pass away and the new Jerusalem will come down. This is why it is important to cross-reference and compare scripture. You can't just adhere to one scripture and ignore others, which is what you are doing by attempting to circumvent the scriptures regarding the thousand year reign of Christ.

We know from other scriptures that this present heaven and earth are not destroyed when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, because according to Rev.20:1-7 we have a thousand years which needs to be fulfilled after the Lord returns. It is during this time when Isa.2:4 will be fulfilled:

"He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore."

The millennial period is when prey and predator animals will be at peace with one another and the lion will eat straw like the Oxen:

The wolf will live with the lamb,

and the leopard will lie down with the goat;

the calf and young lion and fatling will be together,

and a little child will lead them.

The cow will graze with the bear,

their young will lie down together,

and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The infant will play by the cobra’s den,

and the toddler will reach into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy

on all My holy mountain,

for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD

as the sea is full of water.

(Continued)

 

[Ahwatukee]

(Continued)

2 Thessalonians 1: 7-10, “And to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when he comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints…”

All you are doing is repeating the false teachings of others, for I have seen people attempting to use the same scripture above to prove that the Lord has already returned by pointing out that it states that the Lord will "give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven." However, in order for the Lord's return to the earth to end the age to have taken place, the world would have first had to go through the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which most certainly have not taken place. By the way, Paul includes himself as being of those who will be given rest, yet his body has been long dead and the Lord has yet to return.

What did the last Scripture I quoted in 2 Thess mean by “in that Day”?

John 6: 44, “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6: 54, “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 11: 24, Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”

So we know “in that Day” in 2 Thess is the “last day” when saints are resurrected. The last day can only mean the last day of our current age.

John 6: 39, “This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.”

The premillennialist will say that the “last day” happens at the end of the church age although some will say it happens 7 years later at the end of the tribulation. By saying this they can still have the “age to come” beginning with the 1,000 year reign of Christ and continuing into the new heavens and new earth.

I will raise him up in the last times, or during the last days. Jesus is not specifying a specific, single day here. In the same way that "the day of the Lord," or "the hour of trial" is not a literal day or hour, neither is the reference to the "last day" referring to a particular day, but is referring to the end time period. As proof of this there are phases to the "first resurrection," with Jesus being the first fruits. If you were to interpret the "last day" as when the resurrection takes place, then all resurrections mentioned would have to take place at the same time, which is impossible! So, your attempt at using the scriptures which mention the "last day" do not support your claim. It is faulty exegesis at best.

The biggest problem that you have with your interpretation is that by having the church resurrected when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, you would have the living church going through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer and that because Jesus already suffered it on every believers behalf. Jesus is not going to put His bride through His wrath before coming to get her.

SO IN ORDER TO MAKE PREMILLENNIALISM WORK THEY MUST SAY THAT THE LAST DAY IS BEFORE THE 1,000 YEAR REIGN OF CHRIST ON EARTH.

So if we can prove that the “last day” is not before the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth then premillennialism is proven false. What does the Scripture say?

The "last day" is referring to the end of the aged and not the last day of the earth's existence. Jesus must fulfill the prophecy of His rule on the throne of king David from Jerusalem. You get rid of the millennial period and go right to the new heaven and new earth and you remove that prophecy. For the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem, all have to do with the eternal state, which takes place after God's time of wrath and the fulfillment of that last seven years, after the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, after the millennial period and after the great white throne judgment.

From the Scriptures I have already quoted in this post we know that the good and bad are gathered together on the same day (Matt 13). The bad are thrown in the Lake of Fire.

Once again, the gathering of the good and the bad, is referring to when the Lord returns to the earth and sends out His angels, who will collect the weeds and the wheat and where there will also be a judgment of the sheep and the goats. These will be people who will have made it through the time of God's wrath alive, with the sheep entering into the millennial kingdom and the goats being cast into the lake of fire, prepared for Satan and his angels.

The premillennialist says the Great White Throne judgment is only for the wicked because the righteous were raised a 1,000 years earlier at the beginning of the millennium. But does the Scripture say this?

The great white throne judgment is a resurrection of the unrighteous dead from all of history. They resurrect here because they will have not been worthy of the first resurrection with the second death having power over them. Those who take part in this resurrection come out of Hades (Rev.20:13) which is where the rich man of Lazarus fame went to and was/is in torment in flame. The church is not judged at this judgment, but will be judged when the gathering of the church takes place in heaven at the Bema seat of Christ and that not for sin, but to receive reward or suffer lose of reward.

John 12: 48, “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him; the word that I have spoken will judge him IN THE LAST DAY.”

WE HAVE THE WICKED BEING RAISED AND JUDGED ON THE LAST DAY. THE SAME DAY THE RIGHTEOUS ARE RESURRECTED. Are there two last days? Logic says no.[/lquote]

Has the church rejected Christ? No! The church has not rejected Christ, but has confessed Him. Therefore, how can apply the above to the church?

We have proven using Scripture that premillennialism is false. The last day can only be the Great White Throne Judgment. There is no 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. Do we have even more Scriptures to support this? Yes we do.

The only thing that you have proven is incomplete exegesis. The "last day" is referring to the end of the age.

* you are here

* The Lord descends and gathers His church

* The ruler/antichrist establishes his seven year covenant

* The wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment are in operation throughout the seven years

* The Lord returns to the earth to end the age after the 7th bowl has been poured out

* The beast and false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire, alive

* Satan is thrown into the Abyss and is sealed in it during that thousand year reign of Christ

* Great tribulation saints are resurrected and reign with Christ during the thousand years

* Satan is released at the end of the thousand years for one last rebellion

* Great white thrown judgment of the unrighteous dead takes place

* This current heaven and earth pass away

* New heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem - the eternal state

 

[delirious]

I could see where you would come to that conclusion, but you did not rightly divide Israel and the body of Christ. You lump all Jesus' teachings to Israel and Paul's teachings to the body of Christ. The body of Christ, the church, was in mystery form until after the resurrection. If Israel received their Messiah and King, then the age of the Gentile would have come during the Millennium during the kingdom of Heaven, but since Israel rejected Jesus, the Millennium was put on hold (as well as the KOH) and the gospel of the d,b,r, was preached to the Gentiles.

Everything you just quoted is dispensational teaching. My post shows, using the Scriptures, why a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth is impossible. I don't think you read my post. I think you are just repeating what you have heard from your dispensational teachers.

The millennium put on hold? Where does it say that in the Bible?

People just believe what dispensational teachers give them without doing the research. This is a huge problem in the North American churches especially. I think my post proves a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth to be impossible. But don't trust me or your dispensational teachers, search the Scriptures yourself.

The question we need to ask ourselves is does the Bible really teach it? I think my post proves that the Bible does not teach a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth and that it is impossible. But you should read my post and decide if I have been faithful to the Scriptures or not.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Everything you just quoted is dispensational teaching. My post shows, using the Scriptures, why a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth is impossible. I don't think you read my post. I think you are just repeating what you have heard from your dispensational teachers.

The millennium put on hold? Where does it say that in the Bible?

People just believe what dispensational teachers give them without doing the research. This is a huge problem in the North American churches especially. I think my post proves a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth to be impossible. But don't trust me or your dispensational teachers, search the Scriptures yourself.

The question we need to ask ourselves is does the Bible really teach it? I think my post proves that the Bible does not teach a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth and that it is impossible. But you should read my post and decide if I have been faithful to the Scriptures or not.

And you are ignoring the six definite references to 1000 years in Revelation.

 

[dcontroversal]

And you are ignoring the six definite references to 1000 years in Revelation.

Oh come now.....everyone knows that Revelation is some imaginary book of fairy tales, allegorized dreams and symbolic spiritualism........

 

[Locutus]

Pre-Trib Rapture and Premillennialism are False Doctrines.

Dis is true, but so is post and amillenialism, dispensationalism of all stripes is the bigger error of them all.

Full preterism - "one doctRing to rule them all and in the darkness bind them"

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Oh come now.....everyone knows that Revelation is some imaginary book of fairy tales, allegorized dreams and symbolic spiritualism........

Nos’not!

 

[delirious]

That is correct! The age that we are currently living in and the millennial period, which is described in Revelation 20:1-7 with the words "a thousand years" referred to six separate times and which follows Rev.19:11-21 which is a detailed account of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

End of the age = Christ's return to the earth to establish His thousand year reign, which is the "age to come."


I think by looking at some further Scriptures to see how this current age ends, we can rule out any possibility of a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth and therefore disprove premillennialism. Let us proceed and take a look at the next set of Scriptures.



The above is in reference to the judgement of the sheep and the goats which will take place when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Those gathered will be those who will have made it alive through the entire wrath of God, with the sheep, (great tribulation saints), as those who will repopulate the earth during Christ's thousand year reign along with the remnant of Israel.




In the scripture above, Peter is speaking in general terms, not sequentially. In other words, yes, the event of the Lord coming like a thief in the night will take place and at some point after the thousand year reign of Christ, then this current heaven and earth will pass away and the new Jerusalem will come down. This is why it is important to cross-reference and compare scripture. You can't just adhere to one scripture and ignore others, which is what you are doing by attempting to circumvent the scriptures regarding the thousand year reign of Christ.

We know from other scriptures that this present heaven and earth are not destroyed when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, because according to Rev.20:1-7 we have a thousand years which needs to be fulfilled after the Lord returns. It is during this time when Isa.2:4 will be fulfilled:

"He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore."

The millennial period is when prey and predator animals will be at peace with one another and the lion will eat straw like the Oxen:

The wolf will live with the lamb,

and the leopard will lie down with the goat;

the calf and young lion and fatling will be together,

and a little child will lead them.

The cow will graze with the bear,

their young will lie down together,

and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The infant will play by the cobra’s den,

and the toddler will reach into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy

on all My holy mountain,

for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD

as the sea is full of water.

(Continued)

So I am trying to see if I understand you correctly so I apologize if I get your position wrong and please correct me if I do. I cannot tell for sure from your post whether you are a pre-trib or post-trib premillennialist so I will just answer both.

First off, if you are a pre-trib rapture person you have saints being resurrected and glorified on what is clearly not the last day as there is still another 7 years of tribulation to follow before the millennial kingdom so that view cannot be right.

If you are post-trib, you are saying Christ returns at the last day of this age and the righteous go into the millennial kingdom, which is the kingdom of God in your view, and the wicked are destroyed at His coming. Here is the problems I see with your post-trib premillennial view:

1 Corinthians 15: 50 says, "Now I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption." The Bible states there will be no mortals in the age to come. You have already stated you believe the age to come to be the millennium only. This is refuted by Scripture.

Jesus also says in Luke 20: 34-35, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage."

So according to your premill view you have people marrying and repopulating the earth. But according to Scripture there can be no marriage in the next age therefore there can be no repopulation.

Your ASSUMPTION that the "last day" is a period of time, and not a single day, you did not get from the Bible and makes the term "last day" meaningless. In your eschatology, the last day is really a period of more than 1,000 years. Now I ask you who is being faithful to the Scriptures at this point?

The passage you quoted from Isaiah is a symbolic passage about the new heavens and earth. If you study it closely you will see this. I don't have time to go into detail about it as it would take too long. Nevertheless, if you disagree about the passage in Isaiah your problem still remains with the things I mention earlier in this reply.

I am going to try and reply to your second post now.

 

[delirious]

(Continued)



All you are doing is repeating the false teachings of others, for I have seen people attempting to use the same scripture above to prove that the Lord has already returned by pointing out that it states that the Lord will "give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven." However, in order for the Lord's return to the earth to end the age to have taken place, the world would have first had to go through the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which most certainly have not taken place. By the way, Paul includes himself as being of those who will be given rest, yet his body has been long dead and the Lord has yet to return.



I will raise him up in the last times, or during the last days. Jesus is not specifying a specific, single day here. In the same way that "the day of the Lord," or "the hour of trial" is not a literal day or hour, neither is the reference to the "last day" referring to a particular day, but is referring to the end time period. As proof of this there are phases to the "first resurrection," with Jesus being the first fruits. If you were to interpret the "last day" as when the resurrection takes place, then all resurrections mentioned would have to take place at the same time, which is impossible! So, your attempt at using the scriptures which mention the "last day" do not support your claim. It is faulty exegesis at best.

The biggest problem that you have with your interpretation is that by having the church resurrected when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, you would have the living church going through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer and that because Jesus already suffered it on every believers behalf. Jesus is not going to put His bride through His wrath before coming to get her.



The "last day" is referring to the end of the aged and not the last day of the earth's existence. Jesus must fulfill the prophecy of His rule on the throne of king David from Jerusalem. You get rid of the millennial period and go right to the new heaven and new earth and you remove that prophecy. For the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem, all have to do with the eternal state, which takes place after God's time of wrath and the fulfillment of that last seven years, after the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, after the millennial period and after the great white throne judgment.



Once again, the gathering of the good and the bad, is referring to when the Lord returns to the earth and sends out His angels, who will collect the weeds and the wheat and where there will also be a judgment of the sheep and the goats. These will be people who will have made it through the time of God's wrath alive, with the sheep entering into the millennial kingdom and the goats being cast into the lake of fire, prepared for Satan and his angels.



The great white throne judgment is a resurrection of the unrighteous dead from all of history. They resurrect here because they will have not been worthy of the first resurrection with the second death having power over them. Those who take part in this resurrection come out of Hades (Rev.20:13) which is where the rich man of Lazarus fame went to and was/is in torment in flame. The church is not judged at this judgment, but will be judged when the gathering of the church takes place in heaven at the Bema seat of Christ and that not for sin, but to receive reward or suffer lose of reward.

My quote from 2 Thessalonians is about the Lord returning on the last day and what happens that day. I don't believe the Lord already returned in 70 a.d. which is what you seem to be implying. That is a belief of preterists.

You are also making the same ASSUMPTION that the "last day" is a period that lasts over 1,000 years. Logic should tell you that that is ridiculous. You must do this or your entire system of premillennialism falls apart.

I don't do this with the Scripture. I read them for exactly what they are saying.

From John 12: 48 we know that wicked are judged on the "last day" the same time the resurrection takes place for believers. You must twist Scripture and makes this time over 1,000 years long.

Also, Jesus never said he was going to rule and reign on earth from Jerusalem. You got that from dispensation teachers. You will not find one verse to support it in the New Testament where Jesus he is going to do that. In fact he says the exact opposite when standing before Pilate in John 18: 36, "My kingdom is not of this world."

It is a spiritual kingdom that lives and reigns in men and women's hearts and is advancing in the world through the proclamation of the gospel.

Luke 17: 20-21, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation. They will not say, 'See here or see there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." It is not a carnal kingdom for 1,000 years in Jerusalem.

The rest of your post is just dispensational teaching that does not come from the Bible. If you continue to insist that the "last day" is over 1,000 years long then it will be hard for you to see things differently.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Whatever!

 

[delirious]

Biblical eschatology is not an absolute, essential of the faith. I have no problem with someone holding to a different end-times scenario as it effects not one iota on the doctrine of salvation (such as Calvinism does) or eternal security.

I would say that the idea that somehow man is going to usher in a utopian society through making the world a little better day by day was crushed by the World Wars, and watching AntiFa thugs and rioting blacks burn down cities does not tell me that society is getting better by any means.

At any rate, if one prefers to believe on non-essential over another my only reply is "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind" (Romans 14:5).

On occasion I'll present what I believe and offer liberty to another to present what he believes . . . and the jury (the readers) will decide for themselves.

I agree with you that this is a non-essential of the faith. I also still consider it very important though discussing eschatology. Paul said to study to show yourself approved. To God it is very important that we have correct doctrine.

I see premillennialism as dangerous because almost everybody in the Christian church in North America is looking for the wrong things. Antichrist, 7-year treaty, pre-trib rapture, Christ ruling and reigning for 1,000 years in Jerusalem etc... This can lead to further deception because of this wrong perception.

I just wanted to share what I think Scripture supports. The readers of my post will have to be the ultimate judges.

 

[Locutus]

The supposed "seven year treaty" is a bogus invention of dispensationalism based on misreading and misapplying Dan 9:27.

 

[delirious]

It would not turn into that even if the church was to go through that, and here is why:
Those who are written in the Lamb's book of life would not worship the beast, nor take his mark.

Rev 13:8 and one other verse that i cant remember now show that.

Also it wouldnt really be WORKS salvation it would be "lack of works" salvation, since taking the mark is a work.
Nah but all jokes aside, thats how post-tribbers often explain that question you had. That the ones that are truly saved wouldnt take the mark

I think if you look closely at Revelation 7: 1-4, Revelation 13 and Revelation 14: 1 and compare them carefully you will see that the "mark of the beast" is not what you probably think it is.

The mark of the beast is received simply by somebody who has remained an unbeliever during their life and engaged the worldly system that we live in. People have been taking the mark for 2,000 years. That's why they all perish. It is a spiritual mark not a computer chip.

Notice the seals for believers are also spiritual and directly contrasted with the Mark of the Beast. They are only on the forehead because we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone. The unrighteous perish because they are unbelievers (forehead) and have wicked works (hand). We don't get judged by our works and have no marks on our hands in Rev 7: 1-4 and Rev 14: 1 which are being contrasted with the Mark of the Beast.

The very first verse of Revelation tells you not to interpret the book literally but spiritually. The Greek word in Rev 1: 1 means the messages of the book are encoded in signs and symbols. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[delirious]

The supposed "seven year treaty" is a bogus invention of dispensationalism based on misreading and misapplying Dan 9:27.

I completely agree with you. =)

 

[delirious]

We got the best one . . . everything else are just imitations.

The word "IN" would speak of a chip, perhaps. The word "ON" would suggest a tattoo. But I don't see a tattoo speaking to an ATM machine.

I wrote this reply in response to Hevosmies but I thought it might be of interest to you as well. Something to consider.

I think if you look closely at Revelation 7: 1-4, Revelation 13 and Revelation 14: 1 and compare them carefully you will see that the "mark of the beast" is not what you probably think it is.

The mark of the beast is received simply by somebody who has remained an unbeliever during their life and engaged the worldly system that we live in. People have been taking the mark for 2,000 years. That's why they all perish. It is a spiritual mark not a computer chip.

Notice the seals for believers are also spiritual and directly contrasted with the Mark of the Beast. They are only on the forehead because we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone. The unrighteous perish because they are unbelievers (forehead) and have wicked works (hand). We don't get judged by our works and have no marks on our hands in Rev 7: 1-4 and Rev 14: 1 which are being contrasted with the Mark of the Beast.

The very first verse of Revelation tells you not to interpret the book literally but spiritually. The Greek word in Rev 1: 1 means the messages of the book are encoded in signs and symbols. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[Hevosmies]

Full preterism - "one doctRing to rule them all and in the darkness bind them" View attachment 189944

WHEN DID THE RESURRECTION HAPPEN AND WHY DIDNT MOST CHRISTIANS EVEN EXPERIENCE IT????

 

[delirious]

And you are ignoring the six definite references to 1000 years in Revelation.

The amillenialist believes that the 1,000 years mentioned 6 times in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number. Every time it is used in the Bible it is never used literally.

Psalm 50: 10, "For every beast of the forest is Mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills." Does this mean God does not own the cattle on the 1,001st hill? Of course not. He owns everything. Symbolic language.

Psalm 90: 4, "For a thousand years in Your sight are like yesterday when it is past, and like a watch in the night."

I have heard premillennialists use this as proof of a 6,000 year old earth and the "7th day" will be the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth.

But the verse also says "as a watch in the night". The verse completely rules out any literal interpretation by equating 1,000 years to a day and also a watch in the night at the same time. One is 24 hours, the other is 3 hours. It can only be interpreted symbolically.

It just means that time doesn't mean much to God since He is the eternal now, the great "I AM."

So what does the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 mean? It means a fullness or completeness of time. "Until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and so all Israel will be saved." Romans 11: 25-26.

We use it in our speech today when we say to someone, "I have already told you 10 times about this!" or "I have told you 100 times" or "I have gone over this with you a 1,000 times!"

1,000 is a multiple of 10 and 10 is always a number for fullness or completeness in the Bible. Remember the first verse of Revelation tells you the book is encoded in signs and symbols. It is the Greek word translated "signified" if you have a KJV. It may say "communicated" in newer versions of the Bible.

So we don't take the 1,000 years literally in Revelation 20. Revelation 20 is a recapitulation of Revelation 19. It does not follow Revelation 19 chronologically in time. It is retelling the story from Christ's birth to His return. This happens multiple times in Revelation.

For example, Revelation 11: 15-19 is describing Christ's second coming but then in the next verses, Rev 12: 1-5 talks about His birth again. It goes back in time. Revelation 20 does the same thing and does not follow Revelation 19 chronologically.

Revelation follows this cycle of retelling several times throughout the book. If you interpret literally, which the very first verse of the book tells you not to, you will come up with computer chips and other sensationalistic interpretations. Most of this book has had application to the church throughout the entire 2000 year history of the church because it is basically a telling of the ultimate triiumph of God's kingdom over the kingdom's of this world. This battle has affected all Christians for 2,000 years.

This is why Revelation 22: 10 says, "Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book for the time is at hand." The symbolism in Revelation has been being fulfilled for 2,000 years and counting in every generation of the Church.

 

[delirious]

WHEN DID THE RESURRECTION HAPPEN AND WHY DIDNT MOST CHRISTIANS EVEN EXPERIENCE IT????

Full preterism was the only eschatological position that the early church condemned as heresy. I think that says a lot. Christ clearly hasn't returned and resurrected and judged people or inaugurated the new heavens and earth.

I have watched full preterists like Don Preston jump through hoops to try and explain those things away. I don't doubt his love for the Lord but he is obviously way off base on eschatology.

 

[Locutus]

Where and which of the early church condemned Full preterism?