Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine
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Hi Ben,
I really dislike using the Greek for anything because it's deceptive and those who do not know Greek, should not be trying to use the Greek.
Here's why... YOU say it means to come to agreement with. That's only ONE of the meanings, and not the one for 1 John 1:9 ... Please check this out:
b. not to deny, i. e. to confess; declare: joined with οὐκἀρνεῖσθαι, followed by direct discourse with recitative ὅτι, John 1:20; followed by ὅτι, Hebrews 11:13; τίνι τί, ὅτι, Acts 24:14; to confess, i. e. to admit or declare oneself guilty of what one is accused of: τάς ἁμαρτίας, 1 John 1:9 (Sir. 4:26).
source: https://biblehub.com/greek/3670.htm
For 1 John 1:9 CONFESS means to confess, the same way we understand it today. When we try to prove the Apostles wrong, we can't ever win the argument. John clearly states what he wants to say...
IF we want to be forgiven for our sins, we ask God and through Jesus, our mediator, we are forgiven.
I also read 8 and 10 as you said and find that it only means that we all have sinned and we're deceiving ourselves if we think we haven't, or don't. It's your false idea that someone is "coming in agreement with" God that is leading to the incorrect context here.
It actually IS saying that we're to be sorry for our sin and ask God's forgiveness...it's His blood sacrifice that forgives us and allows us to go immediately to heaven at death.
Of course your last paragraph is true and although we walk in the light, we will sin at times anyway.
If we're sorry for it, it's good to let God know.....I think we should just do what it says without adding stuff to scripture.
I really dislike using the Greek for anything because it's deceptive and those who do not know Greek, should not be trying to use the Greek.
Here's why... YOU say it means to come to agreement with. That's only ONE of the meanings, and not the one for 1 John 1:9 ... Please check this out:
b. not to deny, i. e. to confess; declare: joined with οὐκἀρνεῖσθαι, followed by direct discourse with recitative ὅτι, John 1:20; followed by ὅτι, Hebrews 11:13; τίνι τί, ὅτι, Acts 24:14; to confess, i. e. to admit or declare oneself guilty of what one is accused of: τάς ἁμαρτίας, 1 John 1:9 (Sir. 4:26).
source: https://biblehub.com/greek/3670.htm
For 1 John 1:9 CONFESS means to confess, the same way we understand it today. When we try to prove the Apostles wrong, we can't ever win the argument. John clearly states what he wants to say...
IF we want to be forgiven for our sins, we ask God and through Jesus, our mediator, we are forgiven.
I also read 8 and 10 as you said and find that it only means that we all have sinned and we're deceiving ourselves if we think we haven't, or don't. It's your false idea that someone is "coming in agreement with" God that is leading to the incorrect context here.
It actually IS saying that we're to be sorry for our sin and ask God's forgiveness...it's His blood sacrifice that forgives us and allows us to go immediately to heaven at death.
Of course your last paragraph is true and although we walk in the light, we will sin at times anyway.
If we're sorry for it, it's good to let God know.....I think we should just do what it says without adding stuff to scripture.
In Galatians Paul is not speaking about topping off salvation with works...which, BTW, Jesus mentioned this a lot...
He's talking about the LAW of Moses...unrighteous works. Works people do to try and gain salvation.
No one here is saying that works save.
But they DO KEEP saved...Why?
Because Jesus said to do certain things...are we supposed to pay attention to what Jesus says or not?
As to the apple tree analogy...why use analogies? The bible clearly tells us what we should do to be saved.
John 15:1-6 Jesus said:
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
It's difficult for me to know how one could argue with what Jesus says.
HE said that if we don't bear fruit, we are taken away...
IF we abide in Him we will bear much fruit.
IF we do NOT abide in Him, we are thrown away, dry up, gathered, cast into the fire and burned.
What could be clearer?
He's talking about the LAW of Moses...unrighteous works. Works people do to try and gain salvation.
No one here is saying that works save.
But they DO KEEP saved...Why?
Because Jesus said to do certain things...are we supposed to pay attention to what Jesus says or not?
As to the apple tree analogy...why use analogies? The bible clearly tells us what we should do to be saved.
John 15:1-6 Jesus said:
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
It's difficult for me to know how one could argue with what Jesus says.
HE said that if we don't bear fruit, we are taken away...
IF we abide in Him we will bear much fruit.
IF we do NOT abide in Him, we are thrown away, dry up, gathered, cast into the fire and burned.
What could be clearer?
E
So we do know what believe means, But I disagree with Jesus.
Seems like you have a problem with your thought process. Either you know what Jesus meant, Or I could not be disagreeing with Jesus.
I can believe you can rescue me, I may not have any faith in you at all.
My actions will prove where my faith is, Belief is useless without faith. Belief does not work, faith does.
Seems like you have a problem with your thought process. Either you know what Jesus meant, Or I could not be disagreeing with Jesus.
I can believe you can rescue me, I may not have any faith in you at all.
My actions will prove where my faith is, Belief is useless without faith. Belief does not work, faith does.
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E
Um no it is not. It is obvious you do not understand what the term means. Sadly you have listened to religions view. And missed out on Gods view.
Here, let me help you. Anytime you put your needs above another. You have sinned. Anytime you have failed to serve anotyher, you have sinned. Anytime you have failed to love another (as God loved you ) You have sinned.
All those sins you spoke of. They are RESULTS of not doing those things. Ie, you have let temptation creep in and did not take care of it. Then you sinned by failing to love
Anything not done in love is also sin, I can go to church, give to the church, serve the church, but if not done in love, it is sin.
In fact. You can not go 24 hours without sin, if you think you can, You do nto understand what sin is, And there is no way to know every sin you commited that day. So impossible to confess or as you say “repent” of that sin to make you alive again.
God said we are adopted as children.
What child is cast out, readopted. Cast out, readopted, cast out readopted numerous times a day. Each time they sin.
Flee from religion my friend, it is not your friend, it is your enemy
Here, let me help you. Anytime you put your needs above another. You have sinned. Anytime you have failed to serve anotyher, you have sinned. Anytime you have failed to love another (as God loved you ) You have sinned.
All those sins you spoke of. They are RESULTS of not doing those things. Ie, you have let temptation creep in and did not take care of it. Then you sinned by failing to love
Anything not done in love is also sin, I can go to church, give to the church, serve the church, but if not done in love, it is sin.
In fact. You can not go 24 hours without sin, if you think you can, You do nto understand what sin is, And there is no way to know every sin you commited that day. So impossible to confess or as you say “repent” of that sin to make you alive again.
God said we are adopted as children.
What child is cast out, readopted. Cast out, readopted, cast out readopted numerous times a day. Each time they sin.
Flee from religion my friend, it is not your friend, it is your enemy
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Some people seem to believe that John is focusing on confessing every single sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory of each sin) as an additional requirement to remain cleansed and if we forget a sin, we're toast!
Others believe that John has in mind here a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness. We can't remember every specific sin that we have ever committed.
Notice that verse 8 says, "If we say that we have no sin (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” and verse 10 says, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us" is in CONTRAST TO - if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Others believe that John has in mind here a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness. We can't remember every specific sin that we have ever committed.
Notice that verse 8 says, "If we say that we have no sin (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” and verse 10 says, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us" is in CONTRAST TO - if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
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E
Picked up That is what owners do to branches that do not produce fruit. They are picked up off the ground, the dead spots are cut off and thrown into a fire. So the living part can thrive and again produce fruit.
This does nto sound like loss of salvation this sounds like sanctification. Which it is
This does nto sound like loss of salvation this sounds like sanctification. Which it is
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Here is Jesus about those who accept him as their savior.
John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
Sounds like OSAS to me!
John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand
22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
Sounds like OSAS to me!
U
“So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” (John 8:36)
And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Colossians 2:13-14)
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“So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” (John 8:36)
And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Colossians 2:13-14)
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“This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. ’ For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Matthew 6:9-15 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/mat.6.9-15.NIV
Matthew 6:9-15 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/mat.6.9-15.NIV
