Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,980
13,627
113
But the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.
(Isaiah 53:10-11)
"by His knowledge" the Righteous One justifies the many

Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent
(John 17:3)
no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him
(Luke 10:22)
I know My sheep and My sheep know Me — just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father
(John 10:14-15)
from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God
(Colossians 1:9-10)
the fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
(Proverbs 1:7)
perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love
(1 John 4:18)
ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free
(John 8:32)
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm, therefore, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery
(Galatians 5:1)
if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed
(John 8:36)

 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
If you are truly interested, you can read this article, reread the Bible, pray and ask God how He does it.

https://www.iep.utm.edu/design/

I don't have the time or the ability to post a comprehensive explanation that you would accept on an internet forum.

Sides it will mean more if you do your own research and ask God yourself.
Hi A,
It really seems more like an article that speaks of different ways of proving God's existence.
Actually I know about this.
I was interested in understanding how evolution and creationism could go hand in hand.
Haven't heard anything yet that could reconcile the two.
If you don't want to get into this, it's OK.
No problem.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
If you are truly interested, you can read this article, reread the Bible, pray and ask God how He does it.

https://www.iep.utm.edu/design/

I don't have the time or the ability to post a comprehensive explanation that you would accept on an internet forum.

Sides it will mean more if you do your own research and ask God yourself.
Hi again A
Just read about theists and evolution in your link.
Why would God create us through evolution??
I think I'll remain a creationist!
Thanks....
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
="posthuman, post: 3752802, member: 170505"]"by His knowledge" the Righteous One justifies the many


I have stated and believe and posted over and over that I believe He, the Man Jesus, is truly the Word of God which became Flesh.

He created everything at the behest of His father, including His Commandments. As Prophesied this same Word of God became a human and dwelt among us. It is His Sayings that we are to abide by. HIS Words are life.

How does the scripture you posted erase the prophesy and truth that Jesus became a man.

IS. 53:
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him ( Before Who? Himself?) as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Duet 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

As I said before, it is about whether or not Jesus, in the Flesh, had a victory over sin and death, or if Jesus had nothing to risk at all because He wasn't a man like Moses or Elijah, rather, a God with powers no other human has.

Was He flesh and blood or not? I have posted what the Bible says, but as it is written, "many" who come in His Name, don't really believe He was Flesh and Blood, that He isn't the first Fruit at all.

I believe He had a victory over sin as a human. Not as God.

Man shall live by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the Mouth of God,

 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
amen :)

He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.
(Isaiah 53:7)
He is just and having salvation, patient, meek, lowly, and riding on a donkey, upon a colt, the foal of a donkey.
(Zechariah 9:9)
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
(Matthew 11:29)
Now I, Paul, myself urge you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ
(2 Corinthians 10:1)
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me

"Now I, Paul, myself urge you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ"

Matt. 15:
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me

"Now I, Paul, myself urge you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ"

Matt. 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.


Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me

"Now I, Paul, myself urge you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ"

13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me

"Now I, Paul, myself urge you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ"

John 8:
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me

"Now I, Paul, myself urge you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ"

Titus 1:
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision (Mainstream Church of his time)
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, (Can't walk and eat a strawberry on God's Holy Sabbath) and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
The moon must be going full.............or someone bought the wrong koolaid and drank it............probably the latter......!!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Hi again A
Just read about theists and evolution in your link.
Why would God create us through evolution??
I think I'll remain a creationist!
Thanks....
If you are truly interested, you can read this article, reread the Bible, pray and ask God how He does it.

https://www.iep.utm.edu/design/

I don't have the time or the ability to post a comprehensive explanation that you would accept on an internet forum.

Sides it will mean more if you do your own research and ask God yourself.


I REPEAT:

JESUS IS THE ONE THAT CREATED EVERYTHING, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE.

HE PROVED HOW HE CREATED During the Feeding of the 5000 and the Feeding of the 4000.

HE SAID:

Malachi 3:6 (GWT)
6 “I, the LORD, never change.
That is why you descendants of Jacob haven't been destroyed yet.

Hebrews 13:8 (GWT)
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.


Mark 8:19-21 (NKJV)
19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments did you take up?" They said to Him, "Twelve."
20 "Also, when I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets full of fragments did you take up?" And they said, "Seven."
21 So He said to them, "How is it you do not understand?"


HE did not tell either 5000 or 4000 hungry people; "SUPPER will be ready in about 700 Million Years." HE CHOSE THOSE TWO EVENTS TO SHOW THE BELIEVERS, HOW HE CREATED EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THOSE FISH AND LOAVES OF BREAD.


1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Romans 1:18-22 (NCV)
18 God’s anger is shown from heaven against all the evil and wrong things people do. By their own evil lives they hide the truth.
19 God shows his anger because some knowledge of him has been made clear to them. Yes, God has shown himself to them.
20 There are things about him that people cannot see—his eternal power and all the things that make him God. But since the beginning of the world those things have been easy to understand by what God has made. So people have no excuse for the bad things they do.
21 They knew God, but they did not give glory to God or thank him. Their thinking became useless. Their foolish minds were filled with darkness.
22 They said they were wise, but they became fools.

1 Corinthians 1:25-29 (GWT)
25 God's nonsense is wiser than human wisdom, and God's weakness is stronger than human strength.
26 Brothers and sisters, consider what you were when God called you to be Christians. Not many of you were wise from a human point of view. You were not in powerful positions or in the upper social classes.
27 But God chose what the world considers nonsense to put wise people to shame. God chose what the world considers weak to put what is strong to shame.
28 God chose what the world considers ordinary and what it despises—what it considers to be nothing—in order to destroy what it considers to be something.
29 As a result, no one can brag in God's presence.





 
A

Ariel82

Guest
And no one can tell God how he can and can't do things.

Evolution doesn't explain the creation of the world, it explains animal and plant adaptation afterwards....

Just like there a difference between giving birth to a child and raising one.

Two separate topics people want to combine when in truth most creationist have issues with Big Bang theorist not ALL evolutionary theorist but SOME aethist that combine their materialistic views with actual science.

However I don't care what you believe only the topic since this thread is about God's grace and the True gospel is not about works....

Having correct view on creation: works

It doesn't save.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
The Holy Spirit has that covered, so no worries
1 John 5:10-11
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

I know how the human mind is capable of doubting, and to try to sustain believing, is no different than working for salvation

thank you Ariel82, for assuring that, the Holy Spirit has that covered

therefore, our belief in 1 John 5:11 is a belief that can be sealed onto the day of redemption

and that, even the most charismatic, most persuasive, silver-tongued atheist on earth cannot make us doubt, because the Holy Spirit has that covered, and that can seal us onto the day of redemption.

the fact that I can understand the Bible at all, (spiritually discerned)
the understanding is proof that I have the Holy Spirit to help me understand

the Holy Spirit has that covered (protecting my faith) + 1 John 5:11 = assurance

may we be as secure in our salvation as if our assurance is as secure as "Fort Knox", amen
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
1 John 5:10-11
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

I know how the human mind is capable of doubting, and to try to sustain believing, is no different than working for salvation

thank you Ariel82, for assuring that, the Holy Spirit has that covered

therefore, our belief in 1 John 5:11 is a belief that can be sealed onto the day of redemption

and that, even the most charismatic, most persuasive, silver-tongued atheist on earth cannot make us doubt, because the Holy Spirit has that covered, and that can seal us onto the day of redemption.

the fact that I can understand the Bible at all, (spiritually discerned)
the understanding is proof that I have the Holy Spirit to help me understand

the Holy Spirit has that covered (protecting my faith) + 1 John 5:11 = assurance

may we be as secure in our salvation as if our assurance is as secure as "Fort Knox", amen
Amen and amen.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
That's good, I agree.
I would like to add one for consideration. This one goes a step further.
Not only does God not save us according to our "good" works, he saves us
in spite of our "bad" works, or even the total lack of works.

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
And no one can tell God how he can and can't do things.

Evolution doesn't explain the creation of the world, it explains animal and plant adaptation afterwards....

Just like there a difference between giving birth to a child and raising one.

Two separate topics people want to combine when in truth most creationist have issues with Big Bang theorist not ALL evolutionary theorist but SOME aethist that combine their materialistic views with actual science.

However I don't care what you believe only the topic since this thread is about God's grace and the True gospel is not about works....

Having correct view on creation: works

It doesn't save.



AND YOU ARE AGAIN CONFUSING HYBRIDIZATION, with YOUR SO CALLED EVOLUTION, which WAS ONLY and STILL IS A THEORY.

LEARN THE DIFFERENCE.

Evolution WRONGLY SAYS One totally different SPECIES PRODUCED a totally DIFFERENCE SPECIES, and ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS FIND THE MISSING LINKS. Like a Dog giving birth to a Cat, like great ape giving but Human Being, ETC. HERE IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT THAT RIDICULOUS THEORY:

Genesis 1:12-13 (GWT)
12 The earth produced vegetation: plants bearing seeds, each according to its own type, and trees bearing fruit with seeds, each according to its own type. God saw that they were good.
13 There was evening, then morning—a third day.

Genesis 1:24-26 (NCV)
24 Then God said, “Let the earth be filled with animals, each producing more of its own kind. Let there be tame animals and small crawling animals and wild animals, and let each produce more of its kind.“ And it happened.
25 So God made the wild animals, the tame animals, and all the small crawling animals to produce more of their own kind. God saw that this was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image and likeness. And let them rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the tame animals, over all the earth, and over all the small crawling animals on the earth.“



NO WHEAT CROP PRODUCING ALFALFA, NO APPLE TREES PRODUCING ORANGES, etc. THAT is what the original Evolutionary THEORY actually IS.

Hybridization, is when YOU CROSS TWO OF THE THERE SAME SPECIES, to produce a better Seed or Offspring for whatever Purpose.

You want WHEAT that can survive a through the Winter and still yield a better crop, you take two types of wheat that one has better survivability through the coldest winter conditions, with one that is known for HIGH YIELD, and YOU GET WINTER WHEAT through that Hybridization Process. You want a Wheat that will survive in ARID CLIMATES, you look for one with the DEEPEST ROOTS, raise it, and find the few seeds with even DEEPER ROOTS, and Plant them until you find a few plants with EVEN DEEPER ROOTS, and you will end up with sub-species of WHEAT, that will do well in Arid Climates. THAT IS HYBRIDIZATION, not evilution. YES, I DELIBERATELY MISSPELLED THAT WORD.

THE SAME IS TRUE ABOUT THE ANIMAL KINGDOM,
DOGS only produce DOGS.
CATS only produce CATS.
HORSES only produce HORSES.
MONKEYS only produce MONKEYS, and NEVER HUMANS.


Now through HYBRIDIZATION Process, You can take a Female Horse and breed it to Male Donkey, and YOU will get a MULE.
BUT THEY ARE OF THE SAME GENERAL SPECIES. So what do you get when you breed two mules together? ALMOST NOTHING, because of the MULE is a sterile animal.

I will let you LOOK UP this site on your own, and IT IS THE TRUE STORY OF "NEBRASKA MAN" a SO-CALLED Missing Link.

Now the so-called Scientist have been looking for MISSING LINKS between SPECIES for SO LONG, that rather than ADMIT there is no such thing, THEY MODIFIED their THEORY. NOW according to YOU, they switched to calling HYBRIDIZATION as the new evolutionary process. NOT EVEN CLOSE, these did it to save themselves the EMBARRASSMENT that there is NO EVOLUTIONARY EVIDENCE.

Here is what I LEARNED IN BIOLOGY, long before there were such a thing as YouTube Videos.

 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
This thread has EVOLVED from it's original point HAHAHA EMPHASIS upon EVOLVED......
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
sheeps can't evolve into goats, that's all we need to know for this thread
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
thankfully, salvation is eternal, or else ...

How can Phillippians 4:6-7 "peace that transcends all understanding" possibly be true if there's always a part of us ... a part of us that constantly worry at the back of our mind that one day ... one day we might die with the possibility that we will fall into hellfire.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
This thread has EVOLVED from it's original point HAHAHA EMPHASIS upon EVOLVED......

Do you know what the supposed "NEBRASKA MAN" was all about? A couple of the NON-christian Scientists wanted to prove existence of the MISSING LINK so BAD, that they faked it, or based it on Extremely flimsy discoveries. Harold Cook found it, and was SUPPORTED by William Jennings Bryan, and the two were SO EAGER to prove the MISSING LINK was real, that they took a single TOOTH of a Prehistoric Pig, and called it the MISSING LINK. Later when the truth came out, they called it a miss identification, but many believe it was a deliberate HOAX.

http://rdlindsey.com/flashfacts/nebraska.html
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
This is all a lie

"Evolution WRONGLY SAYS One totally different SPECIES PRODUCED a totally DIFFERENCE SPECIES, and ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS FIND THE MISSING LINKS. Like a Dog giving birth to a Cat, like great ape giving but Human Being, ETC. HERE IS WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT THAT RIDICULOUS THEORY:"
Don't try and teach me about evolution you are not qualify. I have a BA in Biology and have taught what evolution actually is.

You can reject.

You can continue to lie about it or use other names but natural selection is an observable scientific fact.

Evolution never says cats produce dogs or humans come from monkeys.

There is a concept of a "common ancestor but there is debate within the scientific community of when the tree begins to branch.

Aethist the it all the way back to single cell amebas.

Christian scientist takes the branching back to a pair of mating common ancestors (like all birds coming from just one bird, we see this is possible by human selection of dog breeds).

Natural selection is part of evolutionary theory.

It's sickening the lies people like you and tell themselves, but I am just going to leave it in God's hands.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
This is all a lie



Don't try and teach me about evolution you are not qualify. I have a BA in Biology and have taught what evolution actually is.

You can reject.

You can continue to lie about it or use other names but natural selection is an observable scientific fact.

Evolution never says cats produce dogs or humans come from monkeys.

There is a concept of a "common ancestor but there is debate within the scientific community of when the tree begins to branch.

Aethist the it all the way back to single cell amebas.

Christian scientist takes the branching back to a pair of mating common ancestors (like all birds coming from just one bird, we see this is possible by human selection of dog breeds).

Natural selection is part of evolutionary theory.

It's sickening the lies people like you and tell themselves, but I am just going to leave it in God's hands.


Romans 1:22 (NASB)
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,


1 Corinthians 1:25 (ASV)
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Romans 1:22 (NASB)
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,


1 Corinthians 1:25 (ASV)
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Why are you picking a fight?

I will stand and point out lies because I don't like pretentious people who pretend to know what they are spouting off However, I have already stated that evolution is not the topic of this thread.
You just keep harpying about it day after day

This is my last reply to you on the matter.

No one can change your mind but God anyway.

James 3

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and [h]self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.