Historically, I learned in Classics class in college, the Athenians would 'call out' the members of the deme's-- the boroughs of the city from which we get the word democracy-- to join the city assembly where city matters would be discussed and decided upon. The word was then used to refer to an assembly.
Church is it even biblical
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After reading all your post let's see I'm the anti-christ to say God doesn't honor the church is wrong I'm silly and I have no Doctrine and I don't assemble with other believers.
Question how did the word church get in the Bible if you do your history or one of them fancy religious words you'll find a King James put it in there my point was the apostles wouldn't even known the word church.
as far as assembling with other believers I assemble with Believers more than you ever believed and there are not only Catholics and Protestants Methodist episcopalians every kind of congregant you can imagine I don't agree with bad teaching I don't agree with church leaders with big words because at the end of the day when I need a word from God I go to God cuz pastors aren't going to give it to you Ecclesia is the Gathering when Jesus spoke he spoke either Aramaic or Hebrew but a lot of you have Catholic upbringing so you choose to use Greek
As far as being the Antichrist or having an antichrist spirit that makes me chuckle for most of you don't even know who Christ is or what Christ is but I can say you ready shocker Jesus is no longer the Christ
Question how did the word church get in the Bible if you do your history or one of them fancy religious words you'll find a King James put it in there my point was the apostles wouldn't even known the word church.
as far as assembling with other believers I assemble with Believers more than you ever believed and there are not only Catholics and Protestants Methodist episcopalians every kind of congregant you can imagine I don't agree with bad teaching I don't agree with church leaders with big words because at the end of the day when I need a word from God I go to God cuz pastors aren't going to give it to you Ecclesia is the Gathering when Jesus spoke he spoke either Aramaic or Hebrew but a lot of you have Catholic upbringing so you choose to use Greek
As far as being the Antichrist or having an antichrist spirit that makes me chuckle for most of you don't even know who Christ is or what Christ is but I can say you ready shocker Jesus is no longer the Christ
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I think how the word got in the Bible was thoroughly explained.
The letters written to Greek churches in the new testament were written in Geek because you know that thing about writting stuff to people is best done in a language they read. No one denies Jesus spoke Hebrew, or that the letter to the Corinthians was written in Greek. The meaning of the word church is simply circle, as in circle of friends or kindred. I'm ancient times Saxon villages formed a circle. It's even where we get the phrase my inner circle, even biker clubs use the word church to describe their meetings. It not a huge mystery that is hidden from the world. Its actually old news. You are tripping about nothing. There is actually a Bible scripture that says something about arguing about pointless stuff. I think the gist is don't do it. The point in the word church is to say a circle of like minded people gathered to study, learn, worship, co operate to accomplish goals like missions, out reach, teaching of new converts, and just plain fellowship; or easier said church.
The letters written to Greek churches in the new testament were written in Geek because you know that thing about writting stuff to people is best done in a language they read. No one denies Jesus spoke Hebrew, or that the letter to the Corinthians was written in Greek. The meaning of the word church is simply circle, as in circle of friends or kindred. I'm ancient times Saxon villages formed a circle. It's even where we get the phrase my inner circle, even biker clubs use the word church to describe their meetings. It not a huge mystery that is hidden from the world. Its actually old news. You are tripping about nothing. There is actually a Bible scripture that says something about arguing about pointless stuff. I think the gist is don't do it. The point in the word church is to say a circle of like minded people gathered to study, learn, worship, co operate to accomplish goals like missions, out reach, teaching of new converts, and just plain fellowship; or easier said church.
These are the kinds of things that are being taught in these churches, things taken out of context, badly misunderstood and doctrines being developed out of them and ultimately a church and a whole congregation following what they don't know because they never learnt from God but man. It is for these kind of things that people have to step out of these churches for their own sake.
Paul never taught a mass resurrection in the distant future and waiting for the coming of the Lord never meant 21st century and counting. Teaching that resurrection happened in the past is certainly wrong but also teaching that resurrection is only in the future is definitely wrong; resurrection is a continuous affair.
This is what Paul taught:
1 Thess 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
2 Cor 4:
11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.
16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.
The two passages read together would mean that resurrection is a continuous thing.
These passages talk about the same thing. There's no 21st century and counting kind of resurrection here, they both talk of the 1st century resurrection. Paul once counts himself amongst those that will be alive when Christ comes and raises the dead to be caught together with Paul and others that are alive and in the next teaching, Paul counts himself amongst the dead who Christ raises so that they are caught together with his 1st century listeners at Corinth and this was an encouragement for them.
No one in the 1st century read these letters and thought to themselves "..ohh, this must be about the 21st century churches.." and Paul wrote those letters not because he was encouraging the 21st century churches but his 1st century listeners.
Paul never taught a mass resurrection in the distant future and waiting for the coming of the Lord never meant 21st century and counting. Teaching that resurrection happened in the past is certainly wrong but also teaching that resurrection is only in the future is definitely wrong; resurrection is a continuous affair.
This is what Paul taught:
1 Thess 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
2 Cor 4:
11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.
16Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.
The two passages read together would mean that resurrection is a continuous thing.
These passages talk about the same thing. There's no 21st century and counting kind of resurrection here, they both talk of the 1st century resurrection. Paul once counts himself amongst those that will be alive when Christ comes and raises the dead to be caught together with Paul and others that are alive and in the next teaching, Paul counts himself amongst the dead who Christ raises so that they are caught together with his 1st century listeners at Corinth and this was an encouragement for them.
No one in the 1st century read these letters and thought to themselves "..ohh, this must be about the 21st century churches.." and Paul wrote those letters not because he was encouraging the 21st century churches but his 1st century listeners.
'Church' is used to translate a word that means 'assembly' and many Christians use the word to mean just that. There are many words that have a history of translation that may not be the best translation. For example, a word that means to prostrate-- to bow down with one's head to the ground or floor--is usually translated 'worship.' At least many Christians know what 'church' is supposed to mean when they read it.
By the way, the King James Version was translated to replace the official Anglican Bishop's Bible and the Geneva Bible which was popular with more Reformed types in England, but had notes that were not considered friendly to monarchy. The Geneva Bible uses 'church', and so does the Bishop's Bible (or 'churche').
By the way, the King James Version was translated to replace the official Anglican Bishop's Bible and the Geneva Bible which was popular with more Reformed types in England, but had notes that were not considered friendly to monarchy. The Geneva Bible uses 'church', and so does the Bishop's Bible (or 'churche').
What makes you think that you, all by yourself, grasp and understand the Christian faith and pretty much all of historic Christianity, Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism, Evangelicalism-- and almost all these other groups that profess the name of Christ are wrong. Historically, Christians have believed in the resurrection of the body.
Of course Paul believed in a resurrection. He did not put a time on it, but he believed in a future event. He held his belief in common with the Pharisees, and he argued this point. If he believed as you did, he would have been lying about having this belief in common with the other Pharisees.
The Biblical resurrection is the one that the Old Testament talks about, like in Daniel 12:2 where it speaks of those that sleep in the dust that shall arise. This is the resurrection Paul and the other Pharisees believed in.
This passage contradicts what you just wrote. Of course Jesus brings the dead with Him. They arise and meet Him in the air as He returns. Also, in this very passage that you quote above, the Lord comes down, and the dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive meet them in the air, together. There is a sequence in this verse.
I will pray that the veil will be lifted for you. It seems you are unable to perceive what certain scriptures mean. I don't think cutting yourself off from believers in Jesus, if that is what you are doing, is helpful in this regard.
The continuous thing has to do with life being revealed in our mortal body, before the resurrection. The part you bold says nothing about a continuous ongoing resurrection. It says that the one who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus. The rest of the Bible establishes this as a future event, not an ongoing thing.
We also don't see dead bodies of them that sleep continuously popping up out of the ground.
It's not in there at all. The Thessalonians passage contains a sequence in which the resurrection occurs at Jesus' return. I Corinthians 15 also tells us that the dead who are Christ's will be made alive 'at His coming.' This is something we are waiting for as we see in 1:7.
Of course Paul believed in a resurrection. He did not put a time on it, but he believed in a future event. He held his belief in common with the Pharisees, and he argued this point. If he believed as you did, he would have been lying about having this belief in common with the other Pharisees.
The Biblical resurrection is the one that the Old Testament talks about, like in Daniel 12:2 where it speaks of those that sleep in the dust that shall arise. This is the resurrection Paul and the other Pharisees believed in.
This passage contradicts what you just wrote. Of course Jesus brings the dead with Him. They arise and meet Him in the air as He returns. Also, in this very passage that you quote above, the Lord comes down, and the dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive meet them in the air, together. There is a sequence in this verse.
I will pray that the veil will be lifted for you. It seems you are unable to perceive what certain scriptures mean. I don't think cutting yourself off from believers in Jesus, if that is what you are doing, is helpful in this regard.
The continuous thing has to do with life being revealed in our mortal body, before the resurrection. The part you bold says nothing about a continuous ongoing resurrection. It says that the one who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus. The rest of the Bible establishes this as a future event, not an ongoing thing.
We also don't see dead bodies of them that sleep continuously popping up out of the ground.
It's not in there at all. The Thessalonians passage contains a sequence in which the resurrection occurs at Jesus' return. I Corinthians 15 also tells us that the dead who are Christ's will be made alive 'at His coming.' This is something we are waiting for as we see in 1:7.
Nothing specific, what makes you think you and your church are ok?
God in these end times has lamented about His own people and urged them to 'come out of Babylon' because things are not ok, yet the church has got you hypnotized because you think it is all fine. When God urges His people to come out of Babylon, do you for a moment think you are part of the group being urged to come out of her? why not?
You are talking about a sequence, i'm talking of the resurrection- east and west. Where does Paul teach a future resurrection? i have shown you, at one moment, Paul counted himself amongst those that were to be alive at resurrection and at another, amongst those that will be raised from the dead and be caught together with his 1st century listeners at Corinth, not even 3rd century.. None of those verses talks of unknown distant future of-course.
Daniel prophesying in some 6th century BC, was talking about what would happen in the end times and we know end times is a period of time starting in the 1st century and stretches to the end of the age.
Nice try but you still failed.
God in these end times has lamented about His own people and urged them to 'come out of Babylon' because things are not ok, yet the church has got you hypnotized because you think it is all fine. When God urges His people to come out of Babylon, do you for a moment think you are part of the group being urged to come out of her? why not?
You are talking about a sequence, i'm talking of the resurrection- east and west. Where does Paul teach a future resurrection? i have shown you, at one moment, Paul counted himself amongst those that were to be alive at resurrection and at another, amongst those that will be raised from the dead and be caught together with his 1st century listeners at Corinth, not even 3rd century.. None of those verses talks of unknown distant future of-course.
Daniel prophesying in some 6th century BC, was talking about what would happen in the end times and we know end times is a period of time starting in the 1st century and stretches to the end of the age.
Nice try but you still failed.
This is an old cliche, shows how much you and your church are removed from truth.
Flesh and bones can not inherit the kingdom of God.
Jesus, 33AD.
It is written, when Jesus died on the cross, the OT saints were resurrected and the physical evidence for this was their open graves- not that people touched and talked to them and no one saw where they went because they were spiritual bodies (not flesh and bones). The bible talks of resurrection of souls (spiritual bodies).
Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They a had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
How does your church expect to see souls continuously popping out bodies?
Flesh and bones can not inherit the kingdom of God.
Jesus, 33AD.
It is written, when Jesus died on the cross, the OT saints were resurrected and the physical evidence for this was their open graves- not that people touched and talked to them and no one saw where they went because they were spiritual bodies (not flesh and bones). The bible talks of resurrection of souls (spiritual bodies).
Rev 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They a had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
How does your church expect to see souls continuously popping out bodies?
Resurrection is off topic but allow me.
1 Cor 15:
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” c Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour?31I face death every day—yes, just as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Again, another famous teaching about resurrection and here Paul insists, "..if there's no resurrection..." rather than "if there will be no resurrection..." but the question asked by Paul in v29 is key to understanding the teaching.
"Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?"
Q. If Paul was talking about 21st century resurrection, why use a 1st century practice(baptism for the dead) to emphasize his point? what restricted him from saying " if there will be no resurrection, what will they do those that will be baptized for the dead in the 21st century?". If Paul indeed taught a distant future resurrection, he would have known those that practiced baptism for the dead would be dead themselves so would not have bothered to use them to emphasize his point.
Note. Paul did not condemn the practice because the underlying belief was truth.
1 Cor 15:
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” c Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour?31I face death every day—yes, just as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Again, another famous teaching about resurrection and here Paul insists, "..if there's no resurrection..." rather than "if there will be no resurrection..." but the question asked by Paul in v29 is key to understanding the teaching.
"Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?"
Q. If Paul was talking about 21st century resurrection, why use a 1st century practice(baptism for the dead) to emphasize his point? what restricted him from saying " if there will be no resurrection, what will they do those that will be baptized for the dead in the 21st century?". If Paul indeed taught a distant future resurrection, he would have known those that practiced baptism for the dead would be dead themselves so would not have bothered to use them to emphasize his point.
Note. Paul did not condemn the practice because the underlying belief was truth.
You're as confused about the resurrection as you are the Church. (Matt. 27:52) "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose....and appeared unto many."
The graves do contain souls and spirits. They contain physical dead bodies.
Resurrection always speaks to the body.
Quantrill
The graves do contain souls and spirits. They contain physical dead bodies.
Resurrection always speaks to the body.
Quantrill
How comes people never saw them go to heaven? and what does flesh and bones do in heaven?
Where is heaven? Aren't you aware heaven in the new covenant is the hearts of living believers here on earth? aren't you aware that Jesus lives in the hearts of believers?
John 14:1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God a ; believe also in me. 2My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”.....
23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Heb 12:22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Where is heaven? Aren't you aware heaven in the new covenant is the hearts of living believers here on earth? aren't you aware that Jesus lives in the hearts of believers?
John 14:1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God a ; believe also in me. 2My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”.....
23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
Heb 12:22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
So what do you know about heaven?
1 Cor 15:50 Now I declare to you, brothers,that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1 Cor 3:16Do you not know that you yourselves are God’stemple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.
1 Cor 15:50 Now I declare to you, brothers,that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1 Cor 3:16Do you not know that you yourselves are God’stemple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.